If you didn't want to breastfeed/did want to, but didn't breastfeed for as long as you wanted/didn't want to breastfeed, but then did, can you have a look at this thread, please?

[hunkermunker]

A lot is done to try to persuade people to breastfeed.

Personally, I think a lot of it takes the wrong tone and misses the point wholeheartedly; in fact, I think some of the bf promotion does more harm than good. I am, for instance, not a fan of militant lactivism.

I realise that the thread title is a bit broad, and I did consider starting three separate ones, but I thought that may be too much. So, three questions on the same thread instead. And feel free to just splurge your experience - I like splurged experiences! Only if it's not too prickly and upsetting though - I know that this can be a pretty damn raw subject. Thank you in advance

1. If you didn't want to breastfeed, was there anything that could have changed your mind? Antenatally? Postnatally?

1. If you did want to, but didn't breastfeed for as long as you wanted, what would have helped you? Antenatally? Postnatally?

1. If you didn't want to breastfeed, but then did, what changed your mind and when did you change your mind? How long did you breastfeed for?

I'd be interested to hear about poor let-down, too.

In response to 2.:

I was adamant I wanted to BF. DS was born with meconium in the water, so we were kept in for 24 hours. I couldn't get him to latch on because (I now realise) my boobs were so big, and he was such a small baby.

I remember walking up and down the ward corridor with him screaming in the middle of the night, and a midwife walking past me, sucking her teeth and saying "that baby is hungry". That was the sum total of the support I received in hospital. (This is Kings, too, where they don't provide formula except in emergencies, and are aggressive in their promotion of breastfeeding).

Like an earlier poster, I never leaked milk, ever, and could only express 2oz a day, once DS got to about ten weeks old.

We eventually got the latch sorted out in a couple of weeks, but I had sore, encrusted nipples and it was agony. I also had to use two hands to feed, as my boobs were so big and - ahem - have never passed the pencil-test.

Feeding out and about was a nightmare. I was totally unable to do it discreetly, and still fail to see how I could sling-feed when my boobs won't stay in the right place.

Made it to eight months, but switched to mix-feeding at four months due to repeated bouts of severe mastitis.

I found the whole thing a nightmare, but am going to try again in November when my second is due.

What would have helped: a Breast-feeding cousellor in the hospital. The midwives were - not to put too fine a point on it - useless old trouts to a woman.

Sorry for the long post. Didn't realise how worried I was about doing it again until I wrote this!

I sort of fall into your last category.

Before being pregnant I never really thought about it too much but do remember when having my nipple pierced not being remotely concerned about the fact that i'd been told i wouldn't be able to breastfeed as a result (complete bollocks btw, all three babies preferred that side!)

When pregnant the doctor asked me and i said yes but couldn't have told you why and my attitude throughout the pregnancy was that bf-ing would be for a few weeks and that if it was difficult i'd stop... I distinctly remember having a conversation with my mother and aunt where i said 'As long as it gets some colostrum it's gotten most of the benefits so anything beyond that is just a bonus'

Yet when dd was born and bf-ing was absolute hell i found i couldn't bring myself to give her a bottle..... I remember screaming in pain at 4am and dp turning to me really worried and offering to go to the 24 hour supermarket to buy bottles so i could get some relief... I almost murdered him! I just couldn't bear the thought of not being able to feed my infant.

That being said I found it hellish (reflux baby, couldn't feed her in public, ridiculous amount of leaking, 24/7 feeding) and decided to stop at 6 months... when the time came however she turned out to be cows milk intolerant and I had little choice but to continue to 1 year (she spat soya formula at me ) I found the last six months easier but was still relieved to (i was 3 months pregnant and knackered).

Then i had ds1, and it was easy! He fed well and spaced his feeds nicely, could be fed everywhere and anywhere and it was just so simple... we ended up going to 2.5 years, he stopped right before ds2 was born of his own accord.

Now ds2 is 15 months and i'm sick of it in a way... he's tongue tied and temperamental, bites and scratches, can't be fed in public, uses me as a dummy..... and i'm so incredibly tired, he still feeds like a newborn and i've been pregnant or bf-ing for 6 years straight now and feel run down and ill. If he'd drop to 2/3 feeds a day like ds1 at this age i could cope but it's incessant and I can't cope much longer.

Why is the help new mothers receive in hospital so hit and miss? Is there no national standard? No basic level of training all Midwives receive in bf support?

Booboobedoo, I know that without the brilliant support I got in hospital and from my community midwives I got once home, I would have reallt struggled. Seems like a lot of people manage to bf despite their HCPs not because they helped them to do it.

1. I successfully breastfed my DS for five months (surviving cracked nipples using shields for a few weeks initially). I gave up with my DD after three and a half weeks because it was so incredibly painful and an absolute nightmare - we later found out she was tongue-tied so having had that found and sorted earlier would meant I could have continued.

I wanted to feed DD but within a few days had such bad cracks on my nipples they took 3 weeks to heal. I'd read a few books ante natally but none really mentioned how long it could take or how hard it could be - all the advice was how marvellous it is, how normal and natural and best for baby. So when it all went wrong so quickly I felt like a complete failure. I expressed and formula fed for 6 weeks, then ditched the expressing altogether. DS, now 10 weeks, has had an ounce of formula since birth and I'm unbelievably proud of myself! Not sure how long I'll continue as he still takes an hour to feed and there are still issues: the uncertainty of it all being a key one.

So what made the difference? Knowing it could be hard, so having some knowledge beyond the "fluffy" image. A determination not to be so British about seeking help (I'd called the NCT counsellor who'd asked if I could wait as she had guests; I couldn't, but instead of asking for a different source of help I cheerily said I'd see her in a few days). Finding support that worked - hospital counsellors at their clinic have been marvellous - and was realistic and practical and very knowledgeable. I have found a lot of midwives just don't have enough knowledge to help as no-one but the specialists could see why I was getting so sore with both DD and DS.

There's also a lifestyle/ personality issue. Personally I have a great need to be in control and have certainty, and DD's life has to carry on too. And the exhaustion doesn't help.

So a good dose of reality and acess to unlimited expert support have made the difference for me.

I fed DS1 till 20 months or so, unproblematically in the end bar a few bouts of thrush - but we had a bad few weeks at the beginning which I didn't really realise at the time were going as badly as they were. And it's because of them I wanted to respond.

DS was one of those 'feed pretty much continually, cry the rest of the time' tiny babies, didn't lose enough weight to ring major alarm bells but just was unhappy and not thriving. Because I'd done all my obsessive googling research, I was suspicious of HVs & what they might say, tried to deal with it by biological nurturing, ringing BF helplines, treating him for colic, etc etc, and was very unready to consider any 'mainstream' solutions.

In the end we ended up in hospital for unrelated reasons (he had a virus) where amidst a variety of admittedly useless staff there happened to be a wonderful consultant who recognised his cry as a hunger cry and very calmly got us supplementing as part of a broader strategy to build up my supply. I felt absolutely heartbroken, because everything I'd ever read suggested this would be disastrous - but for us it worked, pretty quickly - he was ebf again after about four weeks, and turned into the cheeriest baby you've ever met. He really just had been hungry.

I think there's an orthodoxy about not supplementing which turned out not to be helpful for us and if I'd had more confidence in the suggestions made to me by mainstream NHS staff it might have saved a lot of heartache - and maybe cut down some of the time that poor little DS was hungry and miserable. I can see for many situations that supplementing would be genuinely unhelpful and lead to decline and cessation of BF - but for us it saved our breastfeeding relationship.

What would have been useful for me, perhaps, would have been a way of distinguishing between different situations where supplementation might be suggested. I'd be interested to know what the BF experts here make of situations like these.

OhBugger - interesting story, and great you went on to bf. I am a bfc with NCT and as you ask for comments, I thought I'd chip in

I agree with you that there is a strand of 'orthodoxy about not supplementing' - this exists alongside the other orthodoxy that supplementing should be done early and often as soon as there is any issue with bf .

But lets look at the 'don't supplement' orthodoxy. Breastfeeding counsellors often see situations where the breastfeeding is not going well, and this has not been recognised.

Instead, mothers have been told by midwives and then later HVs to 'carry on, sometimes it takes a while and babies often cry like that you just have to persevere' - it's not so much an orthodoxy against supplementing, as an orthodoxy to encourage and hope that things will work out by themselves, and a failure to see/denial that this is a situation that needs fixing. The fix in some cases might mean careful supplementing (ebm, donor milk, formula) with a plan to move back to full bf (so the mother's breastmilk supply needs to be preserved).

I agree with you - supplementing does not have to mean the end of bf, but the helper needs to understand how bf works, and the mother needs to understand that her confidence and motivation have to remain high.

I really wasn't sure about BF - and was quite put off by some of the information I had antenatally.

I'd had quite a lot of exposure to friends with children, and (as it turns out) through bad luck, those who were BF were much larger-breasted than me, so I did have a picture in my mind that BF meant constantly having these great blue-veined boobs flapping around all over the place. I also had some concern that being small meant that I wouldn't find it easy and wouldn't have enough milk (however much people said it didn't matter).

I was also slightly put off by the BF session I had as part of the NCT course - it made BF seem very very knit-your-own-lentils. There were lots of lovely multi-cultural pictures of people breastfeeding around the world but none of what I'd call 'normal' jeans-and-t-shirt mums in the UK. The person leading it was also very lactivist - the information wasn't wrong (that you can carry on feeding even if you're ill for example) it was the tone. I've since discovered that yes, you can in theory carry on feeding, but if you've got a stomach bug and have your head down the loo every 20 minutes you might not feel like it, and getting your DH to give a bottle won't kill your baby.

I was also very worried that I'd find it very difficult - as there's so much info about the problems. However, I decided to give it a go as I felt that healthwise it would be best. I went in to it thinking that just a few days would be a victory.

As it turns out I'm still going strong at 4 1/2 months and now thinking of trying to get to a year. My C-cup boobs make enough milk that I've looked in to milk donation, and I've got a strapping 75% DS who is a total boob-monster.

What turned this round was my experience at the hospital - which was so good that I'm happy to name and praise Surrey County in Guildford. Midwife helped me to latch DS on (no boob touching!) within half an hour of birth, showed me how to feed lying down. I then had help again from midwives throughout time in hospital, including nearly half an hour with the specialist feeding counselor. Then midwives visiting at home helped as well - and visits to the very good BF support drop-in session. A very pro-BF HV is also a real help - although ironically not much use when I have issues getting DS to take a bottle of expressed milk! (thanks to everyone here who recommended Breastflow bottles!).

Sorry I've gone on a bit - didn't realise how passionate I'd become about this!

I wanted to bf dc1. I exclusively bf for 11 weeks, then part breastfed until he was approx 10m.

I found bf very good for bonding and was very very sad when we stopped completely.

However, he didnt get enoough milk from me in those early weeks. I knew it. He wasnt gaining much weight and was regularly going 11 hours with no wet nappy. I told the HV again and again and again. she told me not to give him a bottle. She did not, at any point, explain any ways in which I could increase my supply. The breast pump they offered on loan was broken and they just said 'oh well'.

At 11 weeks I took ds to the GP - he was shocked at ds being dehyrdated and insisted we get more fluid into hiim asap (via formula in bottles) - I left that appointment feeling

a/ pleased someone was listening to me, I knew it wasnt right.
b/incredibly guilty I couldnt produce enough milk
c/ very upset ds was going on to bottles and he needed them as a matter of urgency.

The next few weeks were hell. Ds would not take a bottle. He hated it, eventually he would take 1-2oz.

The whole experience really upset me and I did actually complain to the HV as I was very angry and upset she hadnt helped me even though I had asked several times for her help. I was assured I was over anxious and it was normal for a baby to go 12hours iwth no wet nappies.

I am pregnant again and I dont think I will bf which makes me feel very very guilty but I cannot bf non stop like I did with dc1, I have a toddler to look after.

I want help with how ot mix feed from day 1 which I know isnt ideal, I know that but its better than not trying at all right? No-one will help me with that and nor would they last time.

Have wittered on I know...

I was sure I was going to bf. It's healthier and easier ( I still believe this). After 6 weeks I was glad to switch to the bottle. My DD was a but jaundiced, slept a lot (I thought that was what babies did...) and lost a lot of weight and was slow to regain any. At 6 weeks I had had enough of the pumping.

Antenatally - I went to the bf workshop, read up about it, not sure what else I could have done. Did not pick up anywhere that you might have to wake up your baby to bf. I would put that in capitals in any bf leaflets etc.

Postnatally - I had poor initial support. I remember one of the assistants coming in, saying "that's not a good latch" and buggering off again. Cheers.

We went back to the hospital after DD lost the weight where I got a lot of advice - unfortunately a lot of it was contradictory. One person would tell me that I shouldn't have to feed for more than 20 minutes. The next would say it was normal to feed for far longer. It was as if the midwives were just making it up as they went along. So - more consistent advice. I had the same problem with the HV and the bf support workers.

Waitingforbedtime, when are you due?

I'm due with no.2 in October and I'm dreading bf again. It worked out ok for us last time but DS was a big boy and fed relentlessly. Not sure how I'll cope with that and a toddler.

If mixed feeding is what you want to do then go for it. Someone WILL help you with it, I'm sure there are loads of MNers who have chosen to mix feed from early on 2nd time round. My SIL is planning on doing the same, it's really not uncommon.

I would have a look at online resources like kellymom & the bf charity websites about increasing milk production. I know that evening/night time feeds are important for milk production for example and I think fenugreek is supposed to help...anyway, there is actual advice as opposed to my ramblings available somewhere online. That way you can supplement with formula but continue bf, if that's what you want to do.

I think it is daunting taking it on again though. Don't blame you for thinking twice!

For us, I needed to be listened to more by health professionals about the problems we had with silent reflux. In the end, DS1 became aversive to breast feeding due ot the pain it caused him and we had to stop because he totally refused at 4 months - it was awful. Only then did a lovely speech and language therapist get involved (as she was in charge of sucking and swallowing advice) but it was too late to save it for us. At least it meant that he managed to take a bottle with more success and weaned well.

My experience was 2. (Wanting to BF but not being able to.

What would have helped:

A HV who knew how to support a woman to BF (or even knew anything about BF)

A BF clinic every day within walking distance

Someone to look after DS (who was 2) while I sat there trying to establish BF

hairymelons I am due in Sept.

Thanks for the advice. Dh is also 'scared' of me bf again as it was soooooooo time consuming and I got so down when it went wrong. I really think I might have a bit of a phobia of it which sounds silly but equally I am too stubborn not to try!

I can't answer a specific question but i'l ltry and explain. i always assumed that I would bf but hwen pg, there was so much assumption that i would - mum, sisters, NCT group - that the naturally rebellious side of me leapt out! Also, an awful session at my NCT class on bf left me wondering.It was so pushy and just naff (photos of animals feeding, models feeding - so what?)

then....DD1 was born, very poorly and whisked off to SCBU, was drip fed for the first few days - when it was suggested I should pump i didnt hesitate, and when she was able to come off tube feeding, i was right there, boobs out. i didn't look back and fed her for 7.5mo.

DD2 is 9mo and is just self -weaning, i think. I didnt think twice about bf her, having seen first hand the benefits and the practicality of it.
Ironically enough, out of that NCT group, I believe all but one stopped bf before or by 6 weeks.

Hi..please help!!!

DS is 7 weeks old and breastfeeding...(oh, and loves it!). I had a C section, and have had some problems with the scar healing. A couple of weeks ago I was diagnosed having MRSA, which after 2 failed treatments mean I have to go onto antibiotics...which mean I have to stop breastfeeding.

When we had this a couple of weeks ago, we tried DS on Aptamel, which he seemed to have an allergic reaction to. So, the doc tried an alternative treatment...which still hasn;t worked.

So its back to trying to find a formula he likes...

Any advice on which? Also, whats the best way to make up formula...can it be done in advance?

Really appreciate any advice...

Thanks

Liz - would be a good idea to start another thread, then more people will answer it.

Treatment for MRSA does not normally mean you need to stop bf - have the doctors checked this out properly? Often, women are told they must stop and they really don't have to.

There are some heavy-duty antiobiotics that are thought to be best avoided when bf, but many are considered very safe - and even the risks of the other sort have to be balanced against the risks of not bf.

There are some good, evidence-based factsheets at www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk and you can also get into to share with your doctors here: toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?LACT

I am so sorry - I said I'd come back to this thread, and I haven't - have been horribly busy and still don't have time to give it the attention it deserves.

I will catch up with it this week - thank you, all of you, for sharing your experiences. I really, really appreciate it.

I excl BF for 6 weeks when I went back to work part time.

I mixed fed for two weeks but my supply cut out quickly.

So longer maternity leave would have helped me! There was no-one else to do my job so I had to go back. Expressing was not possible for large chunks of the day.

I live in France and maternity leave is 16 weeks here. No one I know carries on BF after they go back to work. (Most friend who BF for six months negotiated longer leave).

I am not blaming my decision to stop on the system though. I know plenty of mums in America who go back to work after six weeks and ebf for a year plus. I did, however need more time once I went back to work. I got sick straight away and while giving up was so hard emotionally, physically I was struggling and giving up BF seemed the only thing to do.

I didnt want to first time round.I lived in Spain and the only time in my pregnancy the subject was broached was just the question do you want to breast or bottle or both?
i said bottle..she ticked the box in my book that said bottle.
When baby was born i eventually asked for a bottle after she was taken from me for ages for no reason and it was given...tablets followed to dry up milk.
I am surprised to learn now that Spain has an 80% bf rate!

maybe they couldnt be bothered with me because i was a foreigner...who knows.

baby no2.I thought i would like to try this time.was not spoken to about it once.Think now,in hindsight it was probably because it wasnt my first baby.
Baby latched on great first feed then struggled with it when left alone.FFing was what i knew and tbh didnt see the problem with it so i gave up on Bfing.Just like that.

Come to the present day and i am full of regret and resentful to the people that should have at least given me the basic info oon Bfing.All i knew at the time looking back was briefly hearing breast was best at that it reduced the chances of allergies but that was it.My mum Bf us but always moaned about it when i talked to her...i dont have a very good relationship with her either so didnt have her around to talk to about it really.
I wish i had done my research but tbh everyone i knew FF. It was the norm to me and that was that.
If i could have my time over i would try and BF them both.
If i have another i will arm myself with more info and try as i really feel as though i have missed out and my children have too.I feel like a bit of a fraud if that makes sense.
I made choices back then that were misinformed and in answering your question about if you didnt want to Bf would anything change your mind the answer would be information antenatally and a bit of pressure i think! (i know this seems to put alot of people off but i think it would have made me think!) Postnatally i think i would have continued if i had known the importance of it,felt less self concious about doing it (so if it was more normalised)and if the nurses hadnt made it look so complicated..(at birth they were trying to show me how to do it and were like "make sure you press the neck here with x amount of pressure and hold this with this thumb etc etc you get the idea.. so when i came to try myself it just all seem so complicated,baby was screaming, i was becoming more frustrated etc!)

please dont flame me for this anyone as i know the mistakes i have made but i cant change them.

I have spent enough time feeling about it

apologise if my post is rambly and full of mistakes...im in a bit of a hurry!

oh also i forgot to put that when baby was fussing and wouldnt latch i panicked because i couldnt console her and was convinced she must be starving
I knew nothing about the fact babies need very little in the first few days...i was thinking oh my god poor little thing must be getting desperate...i really didnt have a clue

just alot of naivety like that really.

I remember sitting down to lunch in the canteen with other mums who had just given birth and was really shocked that most of them were BF!!! i honestly didnt think many people did it!

Im really about it all really!

I was desperate to breastfeed!

I struggled with DS1, felt like he wasn't getting enough and ended up giving up/mix feeding by 5 weeks.

With DS2 I was determined to breastfeed properly.
Everything I heard/read said there is always enough milk as long as you keep it up

I struggled the same as with DS1, felt I didn't have enough. In fact I was so determined to make it work I quite literally fed 24/7! I tried for only 3/4 weeks but this felt like a lifetime at the time.
DS2 lost so much weight he looked a scrawny, anorexic little chicken
I then discovered (on MN actually) I have Hypoplastic Tubular Breasts (under-developed breast tissue). I always thought they were an odd shape but just thought they were just small.
This means I physically cannot produce enough milk myself to sustain a baby

I took my research along to the GP (a woman btw) and asked her for some Domperidone to increase the little milk supply I had.
She practically laughed at me and told me to try harder

I didn't know about my condition before but next time I hope to have lots of ante-natal and post-natal support to help me get through the psychological pain of not being able to feed my babies.
It was awful.
Everywhere I turned I saw women BFing their babies. Friends would BF and it seemed as if it was all they talked about - how much milk they've got and their babies feed so well and how much weight their babies have put on purely on breast milk

I'm sure Hypoplastic Tubular Breasts is a far more common condition, women need to be made aware of it!

All I

not sure what "All I" means

oh I really want to read this whole thread!

I fall into the second category. What I needed was HELP! No support in hospital - they just latched DD on and buggered off - of course she'd come off and scream again. Finally tried nipple shields and managed to feed using them for 8 months, but used formula too. Not what I'd hoped for at all and it was a big factor in my PND.

However.

2nd baby - different hospital, fantastic infant feeding coordinator... loads of support. DS was jaundiced so had top-ups for 2wks but after that was exclusively BFed, and I'm hoping to continue until he's 2.

I also found a 'breastfeeding cafe' while PG and made lots of friends who BF. I'm now training to be a peer supporter with La Leche League. We were talking about barriers to BFing and how the culture's changed. I felt like I needed a soap box and megaphone!

We discussed how there should be more info antenatally as it's all very well giving it after the birth, but many have made up their minds against BFing by then.

Forgot to say, Hunker, I'm also against the whole Lactivism thing. It's so important not to come across as overzealous when recommending BFing. On our training course we're all agreed that it's much better that a mum mix-feeds, or only BFs for a short time, than she is made to feel bad about not BFing enough, and stops altogether.

It's hard to strike the right tone isn't it - you have to get the message across, especially when mums-to-be won't get that info anywhere else - but you also shouldn't make mums who FFed feel bad.