If you didn't want to breastfeed/did want to, but didn't breastfeed for as long as you wanted/didn't want to breastfeed, but then did, can you have a look at this thread, please?

[hunkermunker]

A lot is done to try to persuade people to breastfeed.

Personally, I think a lot of it takes the wrong tone and misses the point wholeheartedly; in fact, I think some of the bf promotion does more harm than good. I am, for instance, not a fan of militant lactivism.

I realise that the thread title is a bit broad, and I did consider starting three separate ones, but I thought that may be too much. So, three questions on the same thread instead. And feel free to just splurge your experience - I like splurged experiences! Only if it's not too prickly and upsetting though - I know that this can be a pretty damn raw subject. Thank you in advance

1. If you didn't want to breastfeed, was there anything that could have changed your mind? Antenatally? Postnatally?

1. If you did want to, but didn't breastfeed for as long as you wanted, what would have helped you? Antenatally? Postnatally?

1. If you didn't want to breastfeed, but then did, what changed your mind and when did you change your mind? How long did you breastfeed for?

I did want to breast feed very very much with both ds and dd. They were both on the breast within minutes of being born.

DS couldn't latch properly but I kept being told it was fine. It hurt. A lot. After 48hrs I asked about tongue tie. Was told by mw/gp/hv he didn't have it. I stopped bf soon after. He is now 3.2 and is having speech therapy. Due to his tongue tie.

DD is similar story. Was told her latch was fine but it still hurt and I could tell she was just on the end of the nipple. I spotted her tongue tie and asked paed about it before we were discharged from hospital but he said she just had short tongue not a tied one. I felt it was hopeless and she was FF within 36hrs of birth. A day or so later I looked at her tongue and the tie (that didn't exist, apparently) had torn itself and there was an obvious white bit where the cut was iyswim.

So in answer to question 2) what would have helped me is more knowledge re tongue tie and the problems it causes. Both for me and the NHS professionals!

Very very sad that I stopped bf when it would have probably been ok with ds if he'd been snipped and dd if i'd just hung on in there a bit longer.

I b/f ds for only 4 months and at the time felt that I had done a "good job". He too was a wonderful feeder, regained his birth weight in the first week. I think I was just poorly informed, I had read all the books but at no time during my pregnancy did any doctor or midwife discuss my feeding options with me. Formula Feeding seemed the normal way, no-one in my family had b/f and especially on ex h side they all seemed and by my decision to do so, I used to have to leave the room whenever I wanted to feed ds if we were staying with them of they were visiting. I honestly didn't see b/f as a long term choice and felt pretty satisfied that I had "managed" for 4 months.

With dd she was exclusively b/f for 6 months and then I weaned but still b/f until she was 14 months, we only stopped because she did. I would have carried on. I know for a fact that I fed her for longer because of MN, found MN just after she was born and while I never posted about b/f I read all the threads and realised it didn't have to be a choice at all, I could b/f as long as I and she wanted and it wasn't weird or strange. Also ordered The Politics of Breast Feeding as recommended on here (think that book should be included in every Bounty Pack) and was really horrified by the content, stuff I had never even thought about.

I feel very that I didn't b/f ds for longer, he deserved it and I was ignorant, I will always have a little regret about that.

Very worst part about b/f was a few weeks in with dd, when she would cluster feed at night for hours and hours and I just didn't seem to have enough milk for her, I must admit one time I tried to give her formula because she seemed so hungry and distressed. She wouldn't take it though and we got past those few horrible weeks. I didn't realise that cluster feeding was totally normal and was properly establishing my milk supply.

I think there needs to be MUCH better information available to pregnant women. It makes me sad that to most women FF and b/f are presented as equal. I know I probably sound a bit militant but I know if I had known what I know now and been better informed I would have fed ds for much longer. He is autistic and there is always a little part of me that feels so that he has such struggles in life and I couldn't even be arsed to b/f him for more than a few months and it was all down to lack of information and support.

I wanted to breast feed both DC, for as long as they needed DD nearly 10 and Ds is 5,

DD fed brilliantly from day one, but the health visitor was insistant I try her with a bottle as well, I ignored her until about 6 weeks but then we were going to a wedding and giving DD a bottle meant others could look after her.

Then at 14 weeks the health visitor started trying to persuade me to wean her, I was only 19 and really thought she was advising me the best for DD.

I started weaning at 16 weeks with no clue about how to do it, DD stopped wanting any breastmilk once she had had food and I struggled to get any formula down her.
My Health Visitor went on holiday and the one who covered went mad that I had weaned DD so early and refused to believe the H.V had advised this. It was too late to go back I developed depression soon afterwards.

With Ds I really wanted to feed him for six months, but found feeding him really hard, he threw up almost every feed, and wanted feeding every two hours.

The midwives were really great and supportive and came every other day for five weeks, it was when I was handed over to the same Health Visitor the problems started escalating.

First visit she saw how sick he was and suggested a bottle, I ignored her but DS had started only turning his head one way all the time which mean't he would only feed from one breast.

He would end each feed screaming and beating me with his fist for more milk but refusing the other breast which became engorged and really painful. Then he would be sick and the process would start again.

I was in tears nearly all day, DD was suffering, she had only been in school for a month and cried all day everyday and Dh felt helpless, in the end he said he thought it would be best if we tried him on formula and we did, he wasn't sick and he started sleeping more.

I did feel like a failure again however I was pleased I could ignore the health visitor and not wean him until I thought he was ready, at 6 months 1 week.

I am pg again and hopeful for successful feeding this time.

Sorry this is long

I wanted to give it a go, but never expected to bf longer than a few weeks. Here I am 17 months later and still haven't managed to stop, despite the occasional strongish bout of bf fatigue.

I think what kept me going for so long was a) a hugely supportive husband, b) the thought of all the money and time I saved and c) a fantabulous breastfeeding group, which I simply liked hanging out at, which simply normalised bf up to a higher age to me. Before having a baby and in the first few weeks I thought breastfeeding a walking talking teethy toddler was weird, now it's just a completely normal thing to me.

The first time round I knew I would BF and that FF wasn't for me. I only managed a week as I knew no better. He didn't latch in hospital, they made us use top ups from one day old and was feeding 4 hourly, had no milk for 6 days, a terrible latch and a hungry baby. With hindsight I think that he had tongue tie but I'd never heard of it before and nobody ever mentioned it. DS went on to have a serious milk allergy and it took 5 months to identify.

With DD I knew I would try again to put demons to rest but also that I'd mix feed, I had decided that before she was born and we mixed fed for 12 weeks which I was delighted about. I felt that I was in control and that I would stop when I was ready. As it happens she was an excellent feeder and I could most definately have EBF her but it didn't occur to me as I'd had such a bad time before.

With DS2 who is now nearly 7 weeks he's EBF with a bottle from daddy at 11pm. I have never given him the bottle or seen him drink from it and I am enormously proud to have go this far. I think that we have broken the back of feeding and he's happy content, gaining weight and the length of feeds has shortened. I am sure though that I am not a long term BF and my current plan is to start to replace the late afternoon feed with a bottle in a few weeks as I am struggling hugely with 2 school age children, homework, their activities and a baby who wants to feed constantly from 4pm and I need to be able to hand the baby to my mum or someone for a couple of hours. If I can maintain BF with that extra bottle feed then I'll carry on longer, if not then I'm happy that I'll have done my best and that it's time to move on. I don't have any desire to go longer than 4-6 months and when I stop I'll do it knowing that I've done my best in the circumstances.

I wanted to bf dd but she was prem and I was very ill at the time of her birth, she was born by em. section as I had fulminating pre-eclampsia. I was initially supported to bf by the midwives caring for me, put me on the breast pumpwhen I still had a central line in my neck lol but when I got home I found it very hard to manage to express frequently enough combined with twice daily scbu visits and my own health including a further op a week after having dd for a wound dehiscence. I could not keep up with dd's needs and she was ff by tube in hospital, at home we had crap support, dd failed to gain weight, had a painful latch and we mix fed from very early on, I stopped bf her entirely by 5 months.
I'm not really sure what could have helped me tbh, a lot of it was circumstances beyond my control. I got some good advice here at the time but actually following it seemed like an impossibility without someone in rl encouraging me, dp just wanted me to do whatever I felt was best, what I really needed was someone to ask me exactly how they could help me to bf and to give me that support.

Ds has been whole different experience, nice calm elective section, bf in recovery and has fed well ever since. Sometimes it's got me down that he still (20+ weeks and counting) bf so frequently but I've continued because he's been good at it iyswim and also because I was absolutely determined that I was only going to bf.

I've become massively more informed and aware of bf issues in the gap between my dc, mumsnet has been invaluable to me.

I wanted to breastfeed both my children, but gave up at 6 weeks (2st) and 2 weeks (2nd) First time I battled on through repeated mastitis and an abcess. I had 'support' from two Bf counsellors, HV, my mum, my DH etc, but nothing helped. Looking back, I think the problems began when my milk came in. I had a violent letdown and huge amounts of milk, yet a very sleepy baby who wasn't interested in feeding. Nobody really helped me deal with that.I developed terrible mastitis within the first week, but the MWs and HV fobbed me off with paracetomol and some guff about cabbage leaves and massaging my breast under the shower - without even looking at my breasts. I ended up being rushed to A&E with suspected septacemia and had to have the abcess drained . I developed PND I think partly as a result of being so unwell and so stressed about feeding.

I attempted to BF with my second child, but the 'weak' breast flared up again immediately and after a fortnight I ended up in A&E again. Decided it wasnt worth getting depressed over again and stopped immediately.

These things aren't always straight forward. Really, I would have needed a very high quality of care and breastfeding expertise throughout the first months to enable me to continue bf-ing - and that just isn't realistic, I don't think, in our modern culture.

2st = 1st

I wanted to breastfeed both of my girls but each time it has proved difficult. It's been 5 weeks since I had our second and I'm still trying to feed her myself.

My eldest daughter wouldn't latch on properly and I had a very poor milk supply. The midwives were sympathetic but not that helpful. When I was still having problems after a week, I was told to drink a milk and Guiness "milkshake" twice a day, double my calorie intake, and to drink 2 pints of milk a day. When I finally did some research of my own and found out about domperidone, none of the HCPs had heard of it. I managed to persuade the health visitor to support me in requesting a prescription for domperidone from the doctor but I think the dosage was too low and it didn't make much difference. After 4 weeks of slow weight gain, DH had enough and bought formula and bottles.

This time round my daughter also had problems latching on, and I have poor milk supply again. Two weeks after being discharged from hospital the health visitor noticed that she had a tongue tie. Fortunately this was sorted out very quickly, but it should have been picked up at her 24hr check. I am taking domperidone again in a higher dosage and also Fenugreek and my milk supply seems to be on the up. The only problem is DH. He doesn't seem to understand the different daily patterns of a formula fed baby and a breast fed baby. He seems to expect our youngest to spend 10 minutes on the boob and then sleep happily for the next four. I do give her formula top ups sometimes but DH will just give her a bottle without even telling me. I feel like giving up just to stop the arguments it's causing with DH.

So I think more support early on, better information aimed also at men (he won't take my word for it!), better informed HCPs, and more support for mixed feeding would have helped me.

I thought I'd maybe give it a go with DS antenatally and ended up feeding him for 22 months.

I never thought I'd feel so strongly about it but despite having problems at the start (TT, mega soreness, mastitis, thrush) I wanted so desperately to carry on. I think it would have been much kinder on myself to stop but it just felt so important to carry on. I was so lucky to have excellent support from midwives/ HCPs, a supportive DH and my mum and sister on hand to give me moral support actaully. There's no way I could have managed without it and I would have been so sad to stop.

I suppose I'm glad I fed him such a long time because I know it was good for him etc. but I do sometimes feel like pushing on through the nightmare of the first couple of months was a bit unhealthy IYSWIM. I think it's good that people can take the decision to stop the misery, I seem to be a glutton for punishment. No.2 due in october and I'm kind of dreading doing it all again if I'm honest.

Stuff that they should tell you before you start bf: feeding patterns (ie some babies may settle into 3/4 hourly patterns, some babies ie mine, may feed 24 hrs a day until weaned/ you want to die of tiredness); how to feed wearing a sling so you aren't pinned to the f-ing sofa all day long; how to spot thrush & mastitis; how it is possible to feed discretely in public if you want to; how it can be utterly relentless and exhausting for a few weeks at the start but then it becomes easy; to get on Mumsnet, wish I'd known about it when DS was little; that whilst there are undeniable health benefits with bf, it is not a moral obligation and you are not a bad person if you don't want to.

If you did want to, but didn't breastfeed for as long as you wanted, what would have helped you? Antenatally? Postnatally?

DS was premature (due to fulminating preeclampsia) and in Neonatal for 5 weeks. I have extremely flat nipples which are inverted (well embedded really) and it was impossible for tiny ds to latch on - he didn't do it once in 3-4 weeks of trying every day. We got home on nipple shields, but after a few days he was losing weight and my supply was dropping, plus he was not having any wet nappies. I started giving him bottles of the EBM and expressing again, and exclusively expressed for nearly 7 months.

DD was born by c-section at 38 weeks, and despite the looks on the midwives' faces in recovery when I got my nipples out, she managed to latch on. Unfortunately, I then got no help until the 3rd day (after 2 nights of her being constantly hungry). Noone had observed a feed or helped me, and I was concerned that my nipples were seeming to have less coming out when I hand expressed than they had at the beginning, so I expressed my concern. Everyone suddenly all around me acting as though DD in danger - told I would need to give formula or the Paeds would be involved . I agreed but did point out that I wish it hadn't come to this and I'd had the support. I brought in DS's old pump and expressed every 2 hours for the next 24 hrs and my milk came in. By the time I left on day 4 I wasn't needing to give any formula. I went home and she started breastfeeding well again and the pump broke, so tried to 'wing it' but had to buy new pump on Boxing day because she wasn't able to feed again and it was horrendous. After a few more misadventures trying to get her back onto full direct bfing I gave up the ghost and at 5 months am still expressing. DD is different though as she does feed for comfort from the breast (at bedtimes and naptimes mostly) which is lovely and something I didn't get from DS .

I honestly think with DS nothing would have helped - he was tiny and my nipples were too hard for him to get onto. With DD, I often feel angry about the lack of support at the start and wonder if things could have been different, but I am happy that I got to breastfeed her even if only for comfort. I did seek out help from 3 different breastfeeding support clinics over the first months but realised that with my situation there are no real right answers. They all said the latch looked ok - it was not hurting or anything - just think maybe with the way my nipples are she maybe couldn't get a full feed. It also didn't help that we were both rubbish at staying awake for night feeds, and she couldn't latch on lying down.

Sorry that was a huge ramble but I hope it helped in some way.

I did try bf with both of mine however before I had them I had decided to ff because of the hectoring tone of some of the people who act as "advocates" on behalf of bf. They really do it a deservice IMO.

With DS 1 he couldn't achieve a good latch and there was not a huge amount of support offered at the time when it was most relevant to me (in the hospital). With DS 2, he was feeding fairly constantly and with an active 5 year old, I just simply didn't feel that it worked for my situation.

With DC1 I didn't really think about breastfeeding, I had all the bottles ready but after she was born I just breastfed her and she took to it. I told myself I would bf for 3 weeks, then 6 weeks then 3 months, then till she got teeth, then when she got teeth until she bit me. I lasted 8 months and was really proud of how we had done. I could probably of carried on as I was still producing some milk 6 months later.

DC2 I stopped at about 4 weeks as I was exhausted and really struggling with a 3 year old as well. I really wish i had carried on as he has had health problems and I do feel I have let him down a bit.

DC3 Still feeding at 20 months. She just loves the stuff and is proving very difficult to wean off. I did the same with her as with DC1, took it a chunk of time at a time.

DC4 due when DC3 is 2 years old so not looking forward to bf both but will give it a try and will hope to get some support.

I'm almost in category 2 - DS is 10 weeks and so far is exclusively BF - am desperate to continue this BUT... having to administer several different medicines via a dropper after each feed is proving distressing for him and therefore disheartening for me. The thought that I could just chuck it all in a bottle and feed it to him that way is very appealing...
If only there was an easier way to give little-uns medicine when breastfeeding I'd definitely be able to continue longer.

I breastfed DS for 10 weeks. When I was pregnant I was determined to breastfeed and did as much preparation as I could (reading, and attending the class at the hospital)

I thought I was doing really well at first but DS lost 11% of his birth weight in the first three days. A horrible midwife came round and basically told me I was doing it all wrong. I said that DS had fed for an hour and she said "no no no, all wrong. He shouldn't need for that long". She insisted that we top him up with formula. I said I was reluctant to do that as I didn't want to affect my milk supply (milk hadn't actually come in at that point) but she said it was that or DS would have to go to hospital and go on a drip and I didn't want that did I?

She basically made me feel like I had starved DS. It totally knocked my confidence. We supplemented for a while then dropped the formula. Then I had lots of other issues with DS fighting and crying when feeding, green poos and he wasn't gaining weight. He was born on the 50th centile and dropped down onto the 9th.

By this point, I'd found a lovely breastfeeding group run by the BFN and a brilliant HV so I was able to share my concerns there but their attitude was a bit dismissive. They knew what they were talking about though, unlike the clueless midwives in the early days.

In the end, breastfeeding was making me miserable. DS and I would cry through every feed. I has mild PND and suffered from anxiety. In the end I decided that the only thing keeping me going was my pride as I'd been so determined to breastfeed for a year, so I gave up. It was the right decision for us at the time. I really wish I could have carried on but I just couldn't make it work.

Anyway, that's all got really waffly! My main point was supposed to be that there's lots of talk about breastfeeding and hospitals say that they are "baby-friendly" etc but very few of the people I came across in the early days knew what they were talking about. I got such conflicting advice from midwives and HVs. I was in contact with LLL and my breastfeeding group but I feel very strongly that all HCPs that you come into contact with as a new mother should have extensive training in breastfeeding so they can actually help. You shouldn't have to phone a special helpline to get accurate advice, you should be able to get it from your midwife.

I have never seen any evidence that NHS support for bfing goes beyond a poster campaign.

In the hospital where I had DS (Royal Free, London) there was no bf help except for a volunteer who rushed round and spent a couple of minutes with each mother on the postnatal ward. No help from midwives.

Then DS was in NICU at Lewisham for a week or 10 days, and they were actively hostile to bf. The medical consultant made it clear she thought wanting to bf was a sign of emotional weakness on my part. They didn't like me even holding DS "If you hold them during the day they make so much fuss at night". I persisted, but they did everything they could to hinder me, for example refusing to let me express at night and, once DS was suckling again, insisting that "On demand here means every four hours" and that DS shouldn't be on the nipple for more than 20 minutes.

Before releasing us Lewisham called our community midwives to tell them to make sure that we were topping up with bottles. To her credit, the midwife who did the postnatal visit said that was bollocks and I should feed all I could to get my supply going again. She was very rushed, but did give me a couple of minutes' help with positioning.

Things were pretty difficult trying to get bfing going well after all that. The next (trainee) midwife who came was a bitch. She sat and spent nearly 10 minutes telling me how the notes said I'd had bfing help on the previous visit and how did I think she had time to do it again, didn't I know how busy they are? - while I sat weeping and weeping trying to get DS to latch properly.

In the end, after the most difficult experiences of my life, I fed DS for 11 months. But it was in every respect in despite and in defiance of NHS "professionals".

A complete contrast to my SiL's experience in Sweden, where the expectation was always that she would bf her 29 week, 1.2kg DS, and every imaginable help was given to her.

PS one very simple thing the NHS could do to improve bf rates, if that's the goal, would be to check for tongue-tie as part of the standard paediatric checks. I know at least two mothers who were prevented from bfing by undiagnosed tongue-tie, and we've seen several on this thread.

I think the advice to take one week at a time when bf is good advice and spurs women on. I bf ds for 7 months (phased it out when returning to work)and I never enjoyed it as he was a fussy feeder. I continued because of the health benefits for ds. Dd was born very prematurely and I had to express for her for 10 weeks. It took a lot of dedication to keep up my supply til she started bf. I planned to stop when she was 6 months old but dd refused to take a bottle so I am still bf (10 months old now). She has just started accepting a bottle now, so will phase it out over next two months. If someone had told me I'd be bf for a year I'd have been shocked. It's just worked out that way. The HCPs I've encountered have been non-pushy and encouraging and the surgeon who treated dd for tongue-tie was so complimentary of my efforts to bf, which was nice. I do think that all babies should be examined for tongue-tie as dd's wasn't picked up til she was 6 months old.

umf cross posted - weird eh

Dd I bf with no probs til she was 18 months old and I was pg again

she was born big but growth slowed to 9th centile where she stayed by about 3-4 months

I knew this was ok thanks to mn + good links to kellymom and the helplines

ds was born prem, had to express for about 5 weeks til he latched on, he gained 6 oz a week but I got nothing but negativity from the hv and told he needed topping up and bollocks like 'use brand x cos it's the closest to breastmilk'

my hv seem to think that the centile charts are actually a fucking league table and that all babies need to be aiming for over 50%

they kept on with their doom and gloom despite 2 paeds saying his growth was fine, despite him meeting his milestones, despite him having plenty of wet nappies a day, despite him putting on weight faster than his sister did.

They never looked at him, just their charts.

I carried on because I bf his sister successfully and I knew my body could do it, I knew where and how to get real support, because I knew what the signs were that he was getting enough, because my dh was 100% behind me

had he been my first I would have given up in hospital I think

it was a miracle that we made it this far and it SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE

he is nearly one now and I am still angry about my hvs lack of support

Hunker,

I don't know if I'm allowed to post on this thread, because I don't fall into any of your categories. I am still feeding DD at 13 months. And I'm lucky that it has been pretty easy.

BUT

I never in my wildest dreams thought that I would get this far. I thought that you stopped at six months. No idea why I thought that (advertising probably), but in my head, that was when you stopped.

What helped me to have a positive experience was:

• loads of mums in my area feeding (although most stopped somewhere around the 9 month mark. Just me now ). I really think that it's one of those things where the more people you know are doing it, the more informal support you get, and the easier it is to do;

• a great baby cafe near me, which gave me loads of support when things were a bit iffy at first;

• a supportive partner who had been educated in the realities of feeding. I know not everyone has a partner, but I do think that educating men on the realities of feeding a newborn is hugely helpful. When DD fed for the third time in three hours, he never came out with duff advice like 'maybe you don't have enough milk' because he understood how it worked.

Hope that's not too much of a hijack.

That's terrible chibi

Latristesse There may be ways around it.

Start a thread explaining what you are having to do - I've got an idea that might help, but (a) I don't know the details and (b) I don't want to hijack this thread.

What a wonderful thread Hunker!

I don't fall into either of your categories as I'm still BFing my 9 month DS but I too am amazed we've got as far as we have, I know I'm so very lucky.

I ended up in high dependency after having him by an em-c section and it could all have gone so wrong if it wasn't for my DH pestering the HCPs the next day to give me some help. Me? I was still off with the fairies after a big bleed and some hypoxia and I'm not even sure I noticed I had a baby! By the time we did get things going DS was so sleepy it took a HCP blowing in his ear for each feed as he nodded off each time he latched on. He lost more than 10 percent of his body weight but he was a big lad and they trusted me and never even mentioned a bottle and for that I'm so grateful, because if a professional had suggested it I would of course had followed their advice.

In the early days DS had colic and I have to say that bfing was about the only thing I felt I was doing right for him plus those feel good hormones for me were a lifesaver in those dark times. Its funny as I'm a skinny minny and have teeny boobs and never had the milk spraying thing or needed pads like most mums but my son is slim but muscly and huge - 98th centile for his height!

I too think its confusing when every different visiting midwife and HV has a different technique for feeding, but since some worked for us and others didn't I guess I could see they were just trying to help. But had things not been going well I'd have been so stressed by it all. I've since learned to take such advice with a pinch of salt after having helpful HVs tell me to start weaning my son a month early because he was so big, others incorrectly telling me from six months that milk plays almost no role in his diet from now on, and before then to give him a top up bottle because he's a big hungry boy, even though he's never waivered from the 75th centile for weight after initially dropping from his birth one of 91st. What bugs me is mums of small babies are also told to beef them up with a bottle, and so are mums of middle of the road sized babies. FGS we're growing gorgeous, precious children not as heavy as you can make them prize marrows!
I also think the well meaning older generation who didn't even think to Bf don't help their own children much. I've seen so much pressure on new mums to get a bottle going imo so that broody grandmas who seem to have a real aversion to bfing can have a go!
And now I think I'm going to keep on doing it for as long as he wants it - I'm especially grateful right now as he has a tummy bug and the only thing he can eat - on the hour every hour - is a little bf. If I was having to make up and sterilise all those bottles I'd be going crazy round about now. I wish he'd take EBM in a bottle though, as I'm knackered