All the cancers that formula feeding cause. any figures?

[mumtotwoboys]

So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life..
Any specific percentages?
Anything showing the amount of cancers it causes in relation to smoking?

drwhofan

absolutely, I don't know if it's because I associate with working class people (rather than middle class who are supposedly very pro-breastfeeding)
But I've had people say 'aren't you supposed to stop that at 6 months?' when BF my son.
Or 'can't you just express it'
'how can it be natural to breastfeed something with teeth'
etc etc, all normal comments..
I had one doctor say well done to me for still doing it when DS was 8 months which made me feel great.
But generally even my own family thought 'wtf' when DS was a yr old..

I would like the benefits of 'extended' breastfeeding to be more known.

I would like to feel free and supported in doing it untill DS is two years old.
But now I hear that I can only BF him in open spaces away from home until he's 1?

I started a thread ages ago asking why there couldn't be seperate support/debate threads, and was shot down fairly quickly several posters saying that debate often led to advice and vice versa, so it would be pointless to do it. I still think it should be seperate though - I didn't look on Mumsnet for advice about b'feeding for nearly 2 years because a particular thread on formula, which is a shame. I think it is great that Mumsnet has vigorous debate, and isn't just 'aw hun', but I think until you have got used to the robustness of Mumsnet it can be fairly offputting (especially when you are a new mum, hormonal and doing very badly at b'feeding!).

I do wonder about the whole idea of using stats, and health risks/benefits as a way of promoting b'feeding. I just think it is too easy to say 'well I/my lo's was/were f'fed and it didn't me/them any harm' (not my view btw, my dds were f'fed and have asthma and eczema between them, and I beat myself up about it). I also find myself thinking about all the crap genes that I have passed on to my lo's (asthma, shortsightedness, fertility issues, lack of height etc!) and the huge amount of chemicals that surround them everyday, and the whole risks/benefits things starts to seem insignificant.

The thing is b'feeding is normal, and the healthiest start in life, and it would seem from the various figures that most mothers want to b'feed their babies, but a majority of them face problems in the first few weeks that lead them to f'feed - it would be great if the women that so desperately want to b'feed were supported and helped to do so. The more women that b'feed, the more it becomes part of our culture, and is seen as the norm and we will help and support our friends and family to b'feed.

lord i hate all this 'gives mums a bad name' stuff. we're individuals, mmm-kay?

You have to admit that the teeth thing is a bit odd to people who don't know where the tongue goes (at least should go!) They are asking because they don't know.

chibi sorry ,it was a consultant oncologist who told me about the over 35 thing ,although i had also read this in a lancet article too ,but sorry i will have a good trawl round and see if i can find a particular link . I think the main reason it loses its benift as regards the breast cancer ,is if a woman is 35 when she has her first child ,she is concluded to have had lots of periods up to that point ,oh heck im not making myself very clear am i . It is still reccomended however because all the other benefits of breast feeding remain .As i said before i am pro breast feeding , i fed my dd for 13 months . I just really feel for people who struggle breast feedign and end up using formula ,who often feel guilty and threads like these just compound that guilt .
carmen the info regards the pcb's was relating to a study done in the uk quite recently , as i said earlier though ,breast milk contains antibodies and antioxidants too ,so although pcb levels are above the reccommended level in breast milk ,these levels do appear to be reducing and the benifits of breast milk per se ,still outweigh these levels of pcb's ,if that makes sense .

Yes admittedly drwho no-one has ever questioned me on my choice of feeding, so I haven't had much to rage against.

I agree with all of hazeyjane's post.

I love the fact that Mumsnet is full of robust debate, but it can be incredibly off-putting, especially when you are struggling. Even though I do breastfeed, I have often been put off this topic when I would have liked advice. And I have had some excellent advice! It's just that I always come across threads which upset me. I can imagine if I was mixed or formula feeding I probably wouldn't venture in at all.

It's not a criticism of anyone or their efforts to encourage breastfeeding to say that there are ways the site could be improved. I think a 'breast and bottle feeding support' topic and something like a 'politics of motherhood' (Too cheesy?? We can stick WOHM v SAHM in there too!) topic would solve the problem.

I think that's a brilliant idea Laugs

Carmen, thanks for the welcome, despite my fluffed post. I take your point re people looking for support and getting upset about seeing some of the stronger debates at a sensitive time.

Not sure exactly why the separation of debate and advice was rejected last time but it seems to make sense to me.

MO2B - Putting aside all the stuff re the title of the OP etc, I think your last post re lack of support for BF past 6 months in the UK is spot on. Definitely seen as a bit hippy/way out where I am. And the facts and figures that the thread has generated have (those I've managed to read) been interesting reading.

While I agree, that BF is the most natural way of feeding the newborn, it is super upsetting to hear how FF would ruin your and your child's life. I was one of those mothers who desperately struggled with BF, but persevered for 4.5 months, and all the cancer/other awful diseases info didn't help. And many women feel they can't say they are FF, b/c of a HUGE stigma attached to it.
At the end of the day, formula was only invented relatively recently, but people still died of cancer, strokes, other horrid stuff before its invention.

Wading in very late - "it is super upsetting to hear how FF would ruin your and your child's life" - but nobody is saying this, and it distorts the issue to suggest that they are.

TBH I hate the thought that these discussions might disappear from mumsnet. There is so much self-censorship going on in women's face to face exchanges on this subject, and so, so much disingenuous and commercially driven discourse about infant formula in the media. The only place you ever see the fact that there are any risks attached to infant feeding a) acknowledged and b) explored is here on these forums. Or in specialist textbooks. That's really worrying don't you think?

Anyway, apologies if this link has already been posted, but the UNICEF Baby Friendly site is a really good place to access research evidence on infant feeding:
here

and

Hodgkins

Baby Milk Action also good for info.

Brilliant post, tittybangbang.

Just wondering how this thread has helped anyone? If you did bf, then you don't need this information, well done, your kids are safe from cancer. If you didn't, or not for long or whatever or you're having difficulty with it at the moment, then I'm sure you'll be encouraged by the "fact" that your child is now a dead cert to get cancer. Why has this been posted? Don't understand.

i dont like this thread . i know too many people who have died of cancer most of whom were breast fed actually .I ff my 2 ds its nice to know if they get cancer it will be all my fault

"it is super upsetting to hear how FF would ruin your and your child's life" - but nobody is saying this, and it distorts the issue to suggest that they are.

Weeelll, I don't know I think that this

"All the cancers that formula feeding cause....So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life.."

does rather sound like a message of doom and gloom to people who have f'fed their babies. CDon't get me wrong, I think it is hugely important to try and talk openly about all the issues around feeding - but the way this op was worded and the tone of the op all the way through the thread has been pretty insensitive and insulting.

"your kids are safe from cancer".

Nobody here has said that if you bf your kids won't get cancer.

"then I'm sure you'll be encouraged by the "fact" that your child is now a dead cert to get cancer".

Nobody has said that ff children will get cancer.

The OP was insensitively and badly worded: "all the cancers that ff cause".

Even so, she followed this with "we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life.." , which clarifies the point she is making.

Her tone has been fairly defiant, but then she's suffered from some pretty nasty personal attacks, and been accused of saying things she hasn't said (see above), so it's unsurprising that she hasn't had the heart to apologise for the clumsy wording in the OP.

CarmenSandiago - you sound like a very reasonable person. I'm sitting here wondering if I know you......

Bumpsoon - I have also heard an oncologist saying that bf mainly prevents cancers in younger mothers. But isn't this an important message to get across, seeing as younger mothers are less likely to bf!

Mongolia,

Tabacco was marketed. McDondalds is marketed.

Silly point.

Regardless of any studies - the fact remains that without formula many babies would become seriously ill and mums risk becoming mentally unstable!

I am a very middle class mum who had very bad preconceived ideas about breastfeeding and bottlefeeding and that those who bottle fed just hadn't tried hard enough.

My daughter had a brachail plexus injury which hindered our attempts at breast feeding and after a week of trying to breastfeed she refused milk from me, a cup and a syringe. We had lots of help from councillors, HV and midwives but to no avail. I expressed for several weeks but it just wasn't as effecient as my DD so she started losing weight and after a month of trying, her losing weight and me starting to lose my mind I switched to formula.

There are hundreds of women like me who try to BF and fail for whatever reason. I sobbed when I gave my DD her first bottle of formula as I felt like a complete failure and I still find myself trawling forums to find out an answer to what went wrong because I can't let go. My very lovely HV said 200 years ago babies like mine may well have died eventually or at least become seriously ill but formula prevented this. I did what was best for both her and me at the time.

I know this is a major long ramble but I'm incensed at how this post is worded and some of the things that have been said. Just sticking in my ore for all mums who were left with little choice than to turn to formula.

Mimi Your first few weeks sound very hard, but the fact remains that there are very good alternatives to formula. Sadly not within the choice of many in our culture, but without formula it is not true that many babies will die or become seriously ill. Your HV is wrong sorry.

I've been following this thread from the start (I must be a masochist ) and you echoed my thoughts exactly Mimi1977. Yours is the most sensible post I've read. Perhaps now I can put this one to bed!

Before I go, I just wanted to say to some of the earlier posters that if you are already BF surely you are well aware of the myriad of benefits it engenders?? Do you really need to debate the issue on this board? Just be pleased that you are doing a good job eh?

BF is quite obviously the best start you can give your baby. It offers protection to both mother and child from a range of ailments. However FF does not actually cause these ailments either! If, like me, you were unable to BF (but dearly wanted to) there are many, many other ways you can ensure that your offspring grow into healthy, happy adults - diet, exercise, education, oh and what about that little thing called love?

Mimi, I'm sorry you had such a terrible time of it - struggling with breastfeeding.

But the fact remains that in countries with a strong breastfeeding culture and where professionals in contact with mothers are very skilled in supporting breastfeeding, only a very tiny fraction of women have to stop breastfeeding for the health of their babies. It really isn't true that formula saves a lot of lives.

springbelle - you are right that there are a myriad of ways we can improve our children's health, nobody would deny this. Honestly. Not even the people on this thread who are speaking out strongly in support of breastfeeding!

But I'm afraid arguing that ff does not 'cause' ailments is simply illogical. Everyone who is involved in infant feeding in any professional capacity (midwives, health visitors and breastfeeding counsellors) is accepting of the idea that there are risks associated with artificial feeding - it's not considered an extreme or odd view.

Ailments - yes. Cancer - no.

The biggest issue in this thread is the implication that FF itself causes cancer. It may be semantics as to whether BF reduces the risk of cancer rather than FF increasing the risk, given that breastmilk should be the norm and it contains substances which protect against cancer, but there still seems to be an implication by some on here that FF itself causes cancer.

It doesn't.

If it did my brother and I would have both got Hodgkins disease because both of us were formula fed. However, only I got it.

That's because Hodgkins disease and other cancers are not CAUSED by formula. They are caused by other factors. Neither of us were protected against Hodgkins as we were FF but obviously only I had the other factors which caused it.

As a result of dehydration at birth my daughter is mainly FF as well (although I give her a little breast milk every day I don't produce enough to feed her fully). It's too long a story to go into but if I had read this thread three or four months ago it would have devastated me and I do think people should think before they post.

I agree there should be a separate thread for these sorts of debates so you can avoid them if you are just looking for feeding help and support.

If you want support and advice from MN, then ask for it directly.

I have posted many a time on threads that are unpopular, but have just given my honest advice from my own experience. Mainly the feeding ones 'cos thats the topic I know something about, and can share my mistakes!

If I want an argument I'll go to AIBU or relationships, but I normally can't be arsed.

I think women will debate anything tbh, and so no dedicated threads will stop other people disagreeing with you. If you want specific threads thats fine, but others will always infiltrate them and wind you up.

Am i being cynical? Maybe!