All the cancers that formula feeding cause. any figures?

[mumtotwoboys]

So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life..
Any specific percentages?
Anything showing the amount of cancers it causes in relation to smoking?

"f it did my brother and I would have both got Hodgkins disease because both of us were formula fed."

With respect, surely you can see that your reasoning is faulty. There is no direct, inescapable 'cause and effect' relationship between almost any human behaviour and consequent illness - including smoking and cancer, prenatal alcohol consumption and FAS and cocaine use and heart disease, where there are strong and proven links.

The human body is very complex!

The argument that bf 'protects' against disease implies in some way that it's an 'added extra', like taking vitamins or something. But it's not. Babies who are not fed on human milk have a physiologically abnormal diet, and we're only just now beginning to learn about how this affects longer term development: in the fairly recent past (100 years or so ago) almost all babies fed on non-human milk would have died before becoming adults.

Would also point out that women who are not lactating in the year following their baby's birth do not have a physiologically 'normal' hormonal profile. TBH I find people's confusion about this issue a bit puzzling. If you understand the basic physiology of lactation, and the fundamental differences between human milk and formula it seems completely logical that there may be some sort of consequence attached to artificial feeding.

But oranges - the most reassuring thing is not to jump to conclusions about anything. Read the research itself. You will see that the link between childhood cancers and infant feeding choices is tenuous. That doesn't mean it should be denied or disregarded - like everything else, it is information, that we as adults can do with as we see fit. It's part of a much bigger picture.

I shouldn't have used the example of my Hodgkins disease as I appreciate that it is rarely one thing that causes such a disease. All I was trying to do, badly, was illustrate my point that, despite what some people seem to be saying here, formula doesn't cause cancer.

On reflection though, maybe it does. I actually can't say categorically formula doesn't cause cancer but, equally, I don't think anyone else can say it does because I don't think the evidence either way is strong enough. Looking at the Hodgkins link posted above, for example, it says: "The authors speculate that human milk may make the breast-fed infant better able to negotiate future carcinogenic insults by modulating the interaction between infectious agents and the developing infant immune system or by directly affecting the long-term development of the infant immune system. They comment that further research is needed and that improved measurement of infant feeding must be addressed if future studies are to advance our understanding of this association."

Not only do they not suggest that formula itself causes cancer but rather that breast milk may help the infant to negotiate "carcinogenic insults" (effectively protecting against them), but they also indicate that more research is required. Unless there is fairly immutable evidence that formula causes cancer (and I appreciate that we are not just talking about Hodgkins here), I don't think anyone on here should be suggesting it does. Maybe the evidence is out there but noone here has provided it as far as I can see.

I am not quite sure who is suggesting that it is normal not to lactate in the year following a baby's birth. Perhaps I missed that post. It is a long thread. The fact is though, that some people don't and thank God there is a substitute out there which allows babies to survive in these circumstances.

As people are always saying on this forum, the primary problem is lack of support for breast feeding where there are initial problems. I would speculate that such problems may be more common nowadays then they would have been 100 years ago because of the way babies are born. I looked into this a bit after my early problems and I got the impression that things such as epidurals, C-sections, general anaesthetics etc are thought likely to interfere with initial lactation. With support and confidence, breast feeding should still be possible for most people but, of course, that is what we lack.

Oranges I agree totally with you that lack of support for new mothers is a huge issue.

My DS was born by ECS and whisked off to SCBU. I wanted to BF, the ward nurse handed me some kind of expressing device and left me to it. As a first time mother I had no idea what to do.

When I was able to get up and about, I would go down to SCBU to try to feed him, that wasn't a great environment, surrounded by anxious parents and sick babies.

DS lost a lot of weight after he came off the drip, developed jaundice and I was basically told if I didn't give him some formula he would become very sick. Not easy to argue with the professionals in those circumstances. I just wanted him better, I wanted him home.

I did manage to establish BF again but there was no support, rather I felt that I was viewed as some kind of obsessive who was putting my ideals above the health of my child.

Still can't see the point of this thread, apart from to wind everyone up, the op should apologise, if she doesn't then that just confirms it as far as I'm concerned. What we need is more support, that's what I needed with my son, and it still hurts that I couldn't fully bf him. The bf counsellors in hospital knew nothing, but so did I so I didn't realise it at the time. Op, I think about it every day, whether I read provocative and insensitive thread titles or not.

Agree nowherewoman - the OP should apologise for her horrible post. But she won't.

Reading the title of this thread brought me to tears. I desperately wanted to BF my sons, only managing a fe weeks in each case, and ultimately failed each time. DS1 and DS3 had / have eczema and I feel that is my fault already, never mind being made to feel guilty that they 'may' now have a higher risk of other illnesses.

dont be upset by alarmist post

look some people on mn claim formula causes
boils
bunions
halitosis
tennis elbow
..and now cancer it seems

and some people bark at the moon

best ignored

Disgusting OP And no, I don't ff either.

I have bunions! I'd better go have a rant at my mum then for formula feeding me!

Scottishmummy - the studies finding increased risk of some cancers, higher rates of hospital admissions, respitory illness, diabetes, ear and urinary infections and a host of other ailments are referred to in a current Royal College of Midwives textbook on breastfeeding which is on every student midwife's reading list. They are also discussed in a chapter entitled 'Risks of Artificial Feeding'.

in a leaflet produced by MIDIRS in conjunction wit the RCM the NHS and the RCOG.

Obviously the NHS, RCM and RCOG are all barking too.

scottishmummy was bottle fed on the finest Irn-Bru!

"never mind being made to feel guilty that they 'may' now have a higher risk of other illnesses"

What's more important - pandering to your irrational feelings of guilt over something you had no control over, or our right to learn more about issue that might be of great importance to the health of future children and babies?

Plenty of people of my mum's generation were fed on Carnation milk. And they're not doing too badly either.

"And they're not doing too badly either"

Apparently there was a huge drop in average IQ recorded in the US in the late 50's - some researchers think it was testament to practically a whole generation being reared on evaporated milk.........

Hey, I never said they were the Einstein family!

Erm.. hi, I'm new. :D Feel a bit daft that the first thread I jump into is one full of so much anger/drama but that pretty much sums up my life, hahaha.

Anyway, I'm no expert on cancer, and all I know about breastfeeding is what I've learnt since I started when my daughter was born (and what I've gleamed from various books). Nonetheless, as I've already been involved in a zillion breastfeeding debates where I'm told again and again that "FF did X no harm, it's not that bad!" I've armed myself with a host of links which suggest various risks of formula feeding etc.

There's one link in particular I want to share because I think it has some relevance to what was discussed earlier in the thread:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812877/
Childhood CancerSeveral studies have examined associations between formula feeding and childhood leukemia based on the hypothesis that immunoreactive factors in breast milk may prevent viral infections implicated in the leukemia pathogenesis.47 Two meta-analyses1,48 found a 1.3-fold higher risk of acute lymphoblastic leukemia (95% CI, 1.1?1.4) among formula-fed children compared with children who were breastfed less than 6 months. Kwan and colleagues48 also found a 1.2-fold higher risk of acute myeloid leukemia (95% CI, 1.0?1.4) among formula-fed infants compared with infants breastfed more than 6 months.

Like I said, I'm no expert so that's mostly gobbledeegook to me, but hope it allows people on both sides of this debate to draw their own conclusions?

Have fun ;)

Jemjabella -

"Nonetheless, as I've already been involved in a zillion breastfeeding debates where I'm told again and again that "FF did X no harm, it's not that bad!" I've armed myself with a host of links which suggest various risks of formula feeding etc."

Err - that makes you feel good does it? Being able to tell mothers who think that FF did their child no harm that in fact it has increased their chances of cancer!!! I bet that goes down well.Not.

This is my problem with many breastfeeding mothers, as I've said before. They seem to derive some sort of smug pleasure from hunting down data that "proves" they are better mothers and that women who FF are actually doing their babies harm.Why?Why can't you just get on with feeding your baby, your way, and let others do the same? And would it occur to you that maybe the mums who say "FF did X no harm" actually feel really bad about not BFing and are just putting on a brave front, and horrid people like you shoving nasty facts about childhood cancers down their throats is only going to make them feel worse.

I am a BFer by the way.

"This is my problem with many breastfeeding mothers, as I've said before. They seem to derive some sort of smug pleasure from hunting down data that "proves" they are better mothers and that women who FF are actually doing their babies harm.Why?"

No information will 'prove' you're a better mother than anyone else, and IMO mothers who engage in this debate aren't interested in one-upmanship.

"Why can't you just get on with feeding your baby, your way, and let others do the same?"

Because in the past 100 years bf as a normal way of feeding babies has been practically wiped out in industrialised countries - only a tiny percentage of babies in the UK are bf for more than a few weeks.

Women in this country haven't chosen this state of affairs - bf started to to 'die out' decades ago because of bad practice in hospitals, and unethical marketing by infant formula manufacturers who managed to persuade generations of mothers that artificial milk was at least as good, if not better, than their own milk.

There are still whole swathes of society where bf is seen as 'odd' and formula is seen as the only normal way to feed a baby.

Now we've got a bottle feeding culture and even those women who are aware of the differences between formula and their own milk find it hard to establish and continue bf because of conflicting information given by health professionals.

And millions of mothers and babies have missed out on the pleasures and benefits of bf.

It's a political issue underpinned by ignorance and misinformation, big industry, big profits, and the victims are mothers and babies. Of course there are people out there who feel angry about it and want to engage in a debate about it. TBH when I see comments like 'why does anyone care how babies other than their own are fed' - I think - there can be no better illustration of the lack of public understanding of this issue than that.

Tittybangbang, I agree with your points - BFing does need to be better promoted, as it's sad so many women are missing out.

But telling FFing mothers, who have already made their choice for whatever reason, that their children are more at risk of childhood cancers, is a horrible thing to do, and not the way to see BFing rates increase - it just alienates mothers.

"But telling FFing mothers, who have already made their choice for whatever reason, that their children are more at risk of childhood cancers, is a horrible thing to do, and not the way to see BFing rates increase - it just alienates mothers"

Yes - I'm sure it does. But what about when the issue is raised in the context of a debate about the risks and benefits of ff/bf, as it so often is on these boards?

There will be many mothers reading who have made their choice, and cannot change it, but there will be others out there who find this information very interesting and important, and who may not have come across it before.

I totally agree that breastfeeding needs to be promoted. I am extremely pro-breastfeeding, to the extent that once I was going on about how wonderful it was and someone from SureStart overheard me and asked me if I wanted to be a peer support worker. I had to laugh. I told her that, errr, no I'd be the wrong person since I failed at breastfeeding my children.

But promoting it this way with statistics about cancer and other illnesses, ie by making those who couldn't do it, for whatever reason, feel like they aren't good mothers (when they are), is not helpful in my opinion .

There is soooo many ways to be a good mother and breastfeeding is only a tiny element in the grand scheme of things.

Am I going to get shot down now?

so i just come back on to read this and see people posting links that PROVE formula causes childhood cancer and then write ' have fun' next to it. I DID breastfeed my child and that makes me feel terrible (and very angry) reading that. How on earth do you think that makes people feel who were not able to breastfeed children. I remember vividly sitting in the breast feeding clinic watching grown women reduced to tears because they could not manage it and then after weeks of struggling having to give up. You would then feel terrible reading information like. Honestly the people that post stuff like that are absolutely the people that give breastfeeding such a bad image. gross insensitity going on here! I agree with some of the posters here that some of the people who go on about breastfeeding are just doing it to feel smug about themselves and to judge themselves as better than those that don't.

I don't know about formulas causing cancer, but I do know that all breast fed children will eventually die.

Jemjabella - welcome from another newbie.

Talking to my own mum friends the sad fact is that the bf/ff decision is still very much seen as a lifestyle choice based on a whole range of fears, rather than a health decision(I repeat - in my own experience - I don't pretend to vouch for the rest of the country). I do think that health information needs to be made more available to expecting and new to help them make a fully informed decision. Obviously, for some it isn't a decision at all and I can understand that for them, this information is difficult to deal with. But, for many it's a decision based on, amond other factors, 'convenience', fears about exposing themselves and - when they do have bf diffculties and little support - thinking that formula is probably 'just as good anyway'. The same goes fo mums who start bfing but then move on to ff after a few months. The reasons for extended bfing don't seem to be known at all.

Fabmrsv - it's not an easy thing to brave a post on MN if you are new, particularly on some of the more heated threads. Give the girl a break.

And if you think I'm crazy, check out:

this thread

There's still a massive amount of criticism about bfing out there which makes it really tough for those who do want to bf.