All the cancers that formula feeding cause. any figures?

[mumtotwoboys]

So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life..
Any specific percentages?
Anything showing the amount of cancers it causes in relation to smoking?

I think there is an awful lot of constructive things that can be done to promote breastfeeding without resorting to saying formula causes cancer.

I think such statements are nothing more provocative, lazy and are actually counter productive. If we could convince anyone on this basis, the job would be done already and it clearly is not.

In IKEA they've got a special corner of the cafe for breastfeeding mothers. I've never seen anything like this anywhere else, why not? Can we not campaign for such facilities to be made available in all restaurants, stores, libraries, leisure centres, hospitals, GP surgeries, jobcentres well, you get the picture. The Government are surely in the best position to make sure every public building offers fantastic facilities to BF feeding mothers, thus making it easier for those who start BF and promoting the normality of it to those who have chosen not to.

TV companies could also do their bit. Why can't the likes of Eastenders and Corrie show mothers BF, rather than always using a bottle?

Employers could also be encouraged to provide facilities for mothers returning to work to have a private area to express milk.

Why can't the NHS loan every single mother an expressing pump and equipment. If they can fund a maternity grant, why not?

These are just off the top my head, I'm sure there is a whole load more we could do to postively promote a culture of BF. Yes, it will take a long time, but a shift in culture always does. If it was a simple as saying it's better for your health, no one would smoke would they?

Sorry for the long post, it seems I woke up with a lot to say

"Err - that makes you feel good does it? Being able to tell mothers who think that FF did their child no harm that in fact it has increased their chances of cancer!!! I bet that goes down well.Not."

Yes, because that's exactly what I said. rolls eyes

I've never told a mother that her feeding choices will give her child cancer. I HAVE had debates with ill-educated folk who think that breastmilk and formula are equivalent to one another. THAT is why I save these links.

I thought some people might find it interesting. If you don't, don't read it?

"I don't know about formulas causing cancer, but I do know that all breast fed children will eventually die. "

Life is a terminal disease :'(

Just had another look at this thread....although I'd promised myself not to! It just depresses me

The lack of 'sisterhood' displayed here is just phenomenal. Certain 'contributers' (you know who you are - I've seen you on other threads saying similar things where support not pity was sought) would of course argue that MN is the ideal forum for informed debate which of course it is.

Freedom of speech is very important as is the open exchange of information. However, continuing to post tenuous links to the various illnesses that FF causes does nothing to help the promotion of BF. Do you not see that? Some of the posts do unfortunately sound smug I'm afraid. As I said before, if you are successfully BF can you not just be happy that you are doing a brilliant job and leave it at that?

Not one individual (and there are hundreds on this thread) have ever disputed that BF is the best for your baby. Any informed, intelligent woman knows it is! What I really object to, I think, is the lack of heart and indeed humanity some people seem to have when posting on here. Some women are not able to BF (goodness knows there are enough of them on here sharing their stories). Rather than throwing around these 'facts' (I've yet to see anything definitive) and offering your pity (how patronising is that) lets please, please try and focus on BF support as others have said.

As I said before,there is so, so much more to being a loving mummy and BF is just a small part of it. To anyone out there beating themselves up about lack of success with BF - please don't. Maybe just don't read these threads

Yes there is a lot of critcism about bf, that's really terrible isn't it?

Is this what this thread is about then, getting back at society by upsetting mothers who didn't breastfeed, or who tried and failed.

I suppose I can't blame the op, before I had any personal experience of failing at bf, I might have half thought that people just weren't trying hard enough, or couldn't be bothered (I was a bit smug and insensitive tbh, ring any bells?)

But I would never in a million years have started a thread like this, I'm not a complete twat.

Y'know what though, TittyBangBang is right.

This isn't just about those people who have formula fed and who are done and dusted. This forum could be read by ANYONE. It's on the internet, being indexed by Google. Who knows, maybe some trainee midwife or medical student might find it and it might make them more aware of the importance of breastfeeding? Maybe a journalist who is sceptical about the benefits of breastfeeding? Maybe someone who is thinking about breastfeeding but has been put off by family?

For this reason, I'm interested in sharing good quality information more than in doing the 'Aww hun' thing. Do you write to the BMJ to tell them their studies make people feel bad? Should we not tell smokers or drinkers or obese people about risks involved there?

If you want to share sob stories, people will line up to be supportive on a thread where you directly ask for support but wading into a debate like this when your feelings are frayed seems masochistic at best.

Good quality information? - fair enough and there are some links on this thread with good quality information on the benefits of breast feeding, but preventing cancer is NOT proven and the title of this thread is obscene Carmen.

I'm not in any way surprised that people have responded in the way they have. They have every right to express themselves here and to refer to people's personal experiences merely as 'sob stories' is offensive IMO.

Surely if the idea is to promote BF, acknowledging these personal experiences and learning from them can only help to find a way around the obstacles some women have experienced?

Finally, if trainee midwives and medical students are relying on MN threads for 'good quality information' then there is something pretty fucking rotten about the quality of their training.

Yes CarmenSanDiego, this thread could be VERY useful to a journalist but not for the reason you state. If they were investigating the modern politics of motherhood or the way that women relate to each other then yes.......and it paints a very sad picture.

There's a difference between being made aware of information and relying on it.

I've learned loads of stuff from Mumsnet. I'd doublecheck it from reputable sources before relying on it, but there's plenty here for parents and professionals.

And yes, there is a lot of good quality information on this thread. Information from NIH, WHO and a stack of journals.

The thread title sucks, we've all agreed on that. But the links to cancer are strongly evidenced, if not proven. And valid references have been repeatedly cited.

What links that FF causes cancer are strongly evidenced then? I've obviously missed those in the heat of the argument, sorry.

Three references in my post of Fri 02-Apr-10 04:51:48 to studies into breast cancer risk (maternal and eventual risk level for female child) and into leukemia.

Tittybangbang linked to UNICEF's page on breastfeeding's effect on Hodgkin's www.babyfriendly.org.uk/items/research_detail.asp?item=297.

And Jemjabella's post of Thu 08-Apr-10 16:17:18 links to NIH's page on childhood leukemia.

Doh, got the stupid link backwards. Should preview.

UNICEF Hodgkins

so it increases risk not actually causes

as my dad always said (and he is a scientist) "you can do anything with statistics"

who cares anyway

eg.experiments can be skewed in order to give different results. Subject sample size is a key point. Can it be credible evidence if the study was done on 30 people? Also the major flaw which cannot be removed from any experiment is that once you observe something you change it (look at the Hawthorne effect).

If you don't care, why post?

Can you do 'anything' with peer reviewed, well conducted studies, curry?

We've all agreed the OP was poorly worded. It's not really worth arguing over the word 'cause' but:

Yes. FFing contributes to the risk of cancer. If everyone breastfed, the amount of cancers in the population would be somewhat reduced. So FF does 'cause' an increase in cancers in the general population but it would be wrong to take one person's cancer and say it was 'caused' by being FFed.

And to clarify i am not saying BF isnt the best option just think the implication that is might aswell be poison is a tad ridiculous

currycrazy -"who cares anyway"

The breastfeeding nutters who need these sort of stats to make themselves feel better about themselves and their choices and lord it over other mothers.

Then post the stats on websites - with horrible thread titles - stats that talk about horrific diseases that rob parents of their beloved children after months of pain and indignity and suffering and total,total heartbreak - with the cheery sign off "Have fun" and without a shred of sensitivity or care for the hurt and damage they cause.Those type of people care about these stats. The rest of us?We just get on with parenting our children without sneering at other mothers feeding choices, pretending we are genuinely concerned for their children's welfare.

And Carmen - "If you want to share sob stories" - you're all heart, lady.

Ok, I apologise for the sob stories line. But do you know what, I've been called a lot of names here and been sworn at and I haven't reciprocated. I couldn't give a toss about an ego trip. I don't come on here crowing over how long I've breastfed for or whatever and I'm not sharing personal stories of my own 'glory'. That's not what it's about. Why would it be? I'm interested in breastfeeding. I've studied it and I teach about it.

But mamasparkle, your post highlights exactly why I /do/ care.

Because these diseases are horrific and because more can be done to reduce their prevalence. And because women do feel so crap about their feeding experiences when it doesn't go how they want.

Mainly because breastfeeding is NOT well respected in our society and because health professionals are not offering the support they should be.

It's an important issue and it's worth campaigning for because increasing breastfeeding rates will save lives and stop some parents having to go through that.

But like lots of people have said it is all very well preaching to people that have still to make their choice for their unborn child, but to preach these horrible statistics etc when people have already made their choices or had their choices made for them for whatever reason is so so nasty.

I myself being one of those people that has already made their choice.......

Oh well, at least i know that if my child gets cancer it will be all my doing
thanks very much

I have decided that the OP is an arse!

Therefore I am not going to comment.

I just wanted you to know what I thought of you!

Thanks for posting those links again Carmen, it's almost bathtime so I'll check them out later.

SGM I do know a little about breastfeeding and breast cancer and the link is not conclusive. Around 50% of studies show some benefit, the other 50% show no impact. If we're concerned about informing people, then I think that point should also be made, for the sake of accuracy.

Where studies have suggested a reduced risk, in the main this benefit has been associated with pre-menopausal cancer which only account for 5-10% of all breast cancers.

I have also previously posted a link from a very recent study which indicates that prolonged breast feeding may be linked with the most aggressive types of breast cancer.

You see, none of this is definitive, nothing is proven, whereas many of the benefits ARE undisputed, the breast cancer link is still being studied.

I have breast cancer unfortunately and I was asked a million questions regarding my lifestyle, my medical history, family history etc but not once has anyone treating me ever asked me about breast feeding or being breast fed.

I early suggested a whole load of positive things that I thought might help shift our culture towards BF, yet I've not had any response at all. Surely if promoting BF is what this thread is about, we might have had some more ideas in that vein?

Thank you, SGM.

Wubbly, I'm sorry about your diagnosis. Wishing you a lot of strength and positivity.

Here's a positive thing. Well, it made me smile.