All the cancers that formula feeding cause. any figures?

[mumtotwoboys]

So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life..
Any specific percentages?
Anything showing the amount of cancers it causes in relation to smoking?

And also...

In order for something to CAUSE disease there needs to be a direct and scientifically proven link.
There is NO such link between Formula Feeding and Cancer, otherwise it would say FORMULA FEEDING CAUSES CANCER on the side of the tins of milk. Just like it does on a packet of cigarettes.

Guess what..IT DOESN'T

35% is pretty low, but I think it does correlate with the idea that the figures are low due to initial b'feeding difficulties, rather than most mothers sitting down, before they have their babies, and thinking, "right so how am I going to feed this baby, breast or bottle hmmm..."

"...it's what we do for our baby's." If we physically can, if we get enough support, if we don't get such crap advice that we fall at every hurdle etc.

Is the OP attempting to make FFers feel bad? I was unable to BF and had to FF - should i flagilatie self now? Try thinking before posting this shit please.

I agree it's appalling the levels of so called support, I personally have never received any beyond the manhandling, which whilst it didn't kill me and did get DD latching on it wasn't nice. Once you've fed one baby your thought to be fine to get on with it even though DD3 was the one I had most problems with despite her having colostrum all around her mouth before she'd left the delivery suite.

well no, to be fair to the OP i don't think she's trying to do anything other than bolster her argument for bfing, i just don't think that she is at all sensitive to the issues or thought through how such a thread title would read.

You would have got tons of support if you'd talked about what people are saying to you about breastfeeding and how that's making you feel.

Unfortunately phrasing the thread title and your OP how you did, you were bound to put some people's backs up as this is a really emotive subject.

You feel crap about the things people have said to you - so do the people reading what you've put.

The figures being quoted for BF are different to the ones the NHS states which is a bit odd. We had this on another BF/FF thread recently where the stats from different organisations didn't read the same.

Hold on I'll see if I can find the NHS ones (they give a much more positive picture)

Here from 2005 infant feeding survey from nhs

The key facts bit at the end contains some v interesting stats including about BF in public!

Anyway stats:

"Initial breastfeeding rates in 2005 were 78 per cent in England, 70 per cent in Scotland, 67 per cent in Wales, and 63 per cent in Northern Ireland. In England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland the incidence of breastfeeding increased between 2000 and 2005.....

In 2005, 48 per cent of all mothers in the United Kingdom were breastfeeding at six weeks, while 25 per cent were still breastfeeding at six months. Between 2000 and 2005 there was an increase in the prevalence of breastfeeding at all ages up to nine months in both England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The pattern of fall out was broadly similar across all countries.

In 2005, 45 per cent of all mothers in the United Kingdom were breastfeeding exclusively at one week, while 21 per cent were feeding exclusively at six weeks. At four months the figure was 7 per cent while at six months the proportion of mothers who were breastfeeding exclusively was negligible (<1 per cent).

At six weeks the rate of exclusive breastfeeding was 22 per cent in England compared with 13 per cent in Northern Ireland, while at four months rates of exclusive breastfeeding were twice as high in England (8 per cent) compared with both Northern Ireland and Wales (4 per cent). By six months rates were negligible in all countries.

Over eight in ten mothers (84 per cent) said they were aware of the health benefits of breastfeeding.

Three-quarters of all mothers had given their baby milk other than breast milk by the age of six weeks, this proportion rising to 92 per cent by six months.

These stats show that many women are BF, but few are doing so exclusively. The figures quoted from WHO are exclusive rates, so if a woman has ever given her baby one try with some formula she will not show on the figures.

I would say that the figures showing BF generally (but not exclusively) show a much more positive picture and are the ones that should be used on threads like this.

As the exclusive ones are so strict a definition - eg I BF DD1 for 14 months but tried her with some formula at about 4 weeks - she didn't like it much but she did drink some - so I would not appear on the 6 weeks or 6 months or longer exclusive stats. Which is not an accurate reflection of how I fed my DD IYSWIM.

Things are not as dire as the doom-mongers would have us beieve.

Jeez you lot are a bit feisty tonight!

Yup, shite title, but I think you've all jumped on the OP enough, if we take her at her word, she's befuddled by the guidance provided to her and she's pregnant and as someone who was confused from the word go for my entire pregnancies and who sought advice on here, I'd have been mortified if I had got a similar response.

Look, choose to feed your baby breastmilk, formula, thickshakes, whatever, some of it will be better for them than other things. This is hardly news is it?

And no there will not be a wealth of refereed papers that give good evidence on breastfeeding, because breastfeeding makes no money and formula does. Much like there's lots of evidence on car tyres and safety but a curious dirth of info on the proper use of shoes.

Oh yes, I am a breastfeeding nazi in that I have breastfed both kids. I'm also intelligent enough to know that it's a choice every mother has to make and will be villified for whatever they choose.

Perhaps it would be easier all round if we stopped being so flipping judgey?

Good post whomoved, but I think the OP comes across as incredibly "judgey" and that is what upset me, and indeed others. If you have read whole thread there are some people on here who have sadly lost children to cancer and the title and thread has upset them greatly.

Whilst debate is healthy i think the OP either did not think about the title or titled it so to cause upset. I hope the first is true. In which case she should have it deleted or retitled.

lol at all whomoved's bolding.

i'm feeling very fair and virtuous about the whole thing, as a failed bfer of long-standing, but the OP shoulda backed off i think. plus she's got two stories going, one about her bfing in public and the other about her sil needing advice.

Oh thank god some people are having mercy on me, ahhhh
I asked for this thread to be deleted, not sure how to retitle.

I'm just hoping some good discussions and information sharing can be done in other threads as I'm not sure this thread can go anywhere now

xxx

best if this is deleted,it is offensive

but hey ho.live to post another day,maybe be more explicit you received some derisory comments bf and are looking for an informed accurate retort

and do be aware not all research is impartial or of good quality.use a good source like cochrane library click Online Learning Resources

Mumtotwoboys - do what you think you need to and if it gets to the point where I was, where I simply could not get along with BFing my DS, I had to turn to FF - and yes, my DS has gone on to develop an extremely rare and very aggressive form of cancer but upon asking many paediatric oncologists, NONE of them have suggested for one second that my FFing my DS has caused his cancer - and they should know as they're the experts in cancer!!!

I am not going to beat myself up for my DS having cancer at aged 3 - FFing him had zero to do with it as he's the only 3 year old to have this cancer in his brain in the USA and across Europe - if FFing caused it, there'd be many many more unfortunate families having gone through what we've gone through and still going through?

So listen, read 'advice' from doctors about BFing, and then do what you can do. Do not beat yourself up if BFing does not happen as beautifully as so many people have experience of. Just like we all know that in an ideal world, all babies will be born naturally but that's not always possible.

Good luck with your pregnancy and beyond.

sorry to read about your son CA.how dreadful for all of you.sometimes the things life throws at you are cruel and unfathomable

i hope you find a way to navigate and work through this

and you are of course right ff doesnt caused CA

When I was forced to stop breastfeeding my son due to endless problems beyond my control, I had at the back of my mind something I'd read about a link between formula feeding and SIDS (as helpfully repeated by CarmenSanDiego). From then on that thought tortured me and I tormented myself into struggling to express breastmilk for weeks and weeks just so I could get one precious bottle a day to give DS overnight. I thought I was going to kill him because I couldn't breastfeed him.

OP - that is what this kind of shite can do to people.

Agree with gaelicsheep - think that perhaps sometimes the chemical reaction (cortisol) we cause within our bodies when we stress about all the things we read or are told as new mums and experienced mums, cortisol can maybe have a negative effect on the quality and / or ability to produce enough breast-milk as we'd like!!!! I am sure I remember the leaflets given to new mums say to ideally breastfeed in a calm, stressfree environment for this very reason.

Google 'Cortisol and Stress' and that will also stress us out more as cortisol in our bodies increases blood pressure, decreases bone density etc etc etc

Surely there'll be stats and some report (unsubstantiated, peer-reviewed or otherwise) which states that stress whilst breast-feeding makes it more difficult?!

As I said before, mumoftwoboys - do what you can do, let's educate our children to grow up as healthily as possible and give our children as many opportunities to be fit and healthy - then we can hopefully forget or at least forgive ourselves that we failed or didn't get on with BFing and hope that if they get cancer, it wasn't down to BF or lack thereof!!

"it's being discussed how my brother's new baby will be fed when born, I WILL be eager to share advice and evidence I've found with the mother"

So you will frighten a new mum? What if she can't breastfeed & you have told her that ff will cause her child to have cancer in later life? You really think that is useful?

So there she sits, feed after feed with 'you are giving your child cancer' running through her head...tears streaming down her face, maybe she has PND & this will make her feel 10 times worse. Have you though what damage your 'information' can cause her?

No you haven't, because all you care about is making ff'ing mothers feel like they are doing something wrong! So ignorant & self absorbed are you, you are going to feed her this crap & leave her to struggle to digest it!

I ff dd1. She is in great health, always has been. Has has the odd cold, did get mild swine flu last year but fights things really well.

Dd2 was bf. She had very dry skin (dr said it was baby eczema) which ironically cleared up when she stopped bf'ing!

Again, I feel there needs to be a separation of health debate and health support on Mumsnet.

I agree the OP title is awful, but moving on from that, there is something very patronising in being told we can't reference studies showing risks of bottlefeeding because we'll upset those who do bottlefeed.

The problem is we are having this debate in a forum which is used for feeding support. You're quite right, there are plenty of women who don't need or want to be joining in this debate at the moment.

But it IS a valid debate as evidenced by a lot of research has been undertaken into links between formula feeding and cancer risk. We should be able to debate research without namecalling and all this YSBAOY (You should be ashamed of yourself) bollocks. But this is perhaps not the right forum for it. What is the right forum?

It's not just feeding either. I've seen similar things pop up with regards to talking about co-sleeping/SIDS risk etc.

Oh please! Thank you Skidoodly & Piprabbit for some common sense & calm comments. I'm just going to take a deep breath & vow never to read any Breast & Bottle Feeding threads again.

Noone is saying you can't reference studies showing risks of FF if they're reputable studies which so far hasn't happened. There are not risks to formula but there are advantages of BF. Why is it so hard for a few posters on here to recognise the difference. Can't you see the hurt & distress this sort of thread can cause people.

OP, I have being reading through your thread and below I have taken out several reasons why you have started this topic. It seem rather all over the place. I think you're being controversial and not actually wanting to share information. Have a look at what you say:

"So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life..
Any specific percentages?
Anything showing the amount of cancers it causes in relation to smoking?"

"Sorry it's just that my pregnancy notes doctor gave me says 'twenty times as likely to develop serious bowel disease' under the 'disadvantages of artificial milk.
And it says 'protects against pre-menopausal breast cancer + ovarian canger'.
Maybe this NHS pregnancy health record has false information in it?"

"I'm 39 weeks pregnant, I got told yesterday that breastfeeding in public is disgusting and should be illegal, I came on here asking for some links of evidence so I could back myself up when telling certain people WHY I'm NOT formula feeding.
Most people I know think breastfeeding is a bit gross and I wanted some proof to show them on why I do it regardless of all the crap I get."

"However, when for example; it's being discussed how my brother's new baby will be fed when born, I WILL be eager to share advice and evidence I've found with the mother.
I don't think it's fair on anyone to stay under the 'they're bassically the same not much difference' insinuation
-I used to think that before really looking into it, and when you realise the importance of something you want to pass on that knowledge, it doesn't mean I'm trying to offend anyone, I'm trying to help.

I posted this thread because I was hoping other people would have some good sources to share".

It also appears that you are saying ff causes cancer or other serious illness which is very different from doesn't protect from the risk of ... You may think is it the same difference but it is NOT! Here is what you say:

"So we know bottle feeders suffer more breast and ovarian cancers, and their babies suffer more childhood cancers (like leukimia) and bowel cancers later in life.."

"now it's all clear in black and white that 'bottlefeeding is detrimental' "

"There's many links that suggest toxins in formula actually cause cancer if you google it. Either way bottlefed babies suffer significantly higher rates of cancers sadly."

You seem to have an agenda with this thread that is NOT positive at all. You are not sharing information at all but putting forewith your opinion in a negative manner. I usually don't get too involved in BF vs FF as it always ends up the same (btw I am BF my 9month old!) but this thread is awful and quite nasty. I have asked for your thread to be removed. It does not serve any purpose and hope that MNHQ does something about it.

Claire, please take a look at the links I posted. Are you saying that the BMJ, Lancet etc. are not reputable?

I'm sorry but you do have it the wrong way round. Breastfeeding is the physiological norm so it is accurate to say that artificial feeding does increase the risk of certain problems whether that be by removing natural protection or introducing risks with formula ingredients.

The chances are that formula fed babies will be fine and indistinguishable from breastfed babies, especially in developed countries. I disagree with the thread title and of course no-one should beat themselves up over how they've fed their babies.

But it IS important to drive legislators, health professionals and consumers to see how and why breastfeeding makes a difference in real terms rather than pumping out fuzzy 'breast is best' messages. Every woman that wants to breastfeed should be given the full support they need and this just doesn't happen. Strong pro-breastfeeding healthcare support can make all sorts of breastfeeding complications surmountable.

I have been diagnosed with breast cancer. I'm pre-menopausal.

The docs have asked me all kinds of questions, medical history, family history, contraception history, number of pregnancies and my age, age periods started etc.

NO ONE has ever asked whether I breast fed or whether I was breast fed as a child - funny that Shame this knowledge hasn't yet reached the medical profession.

Carmen it was absolutely stupid of me to post something that would ignite a debate in this area.
If mumsnet women are representative of the general population then almost 80% of mothers here wouldn't have breastfed for 6 months even.
They're NOT going to like anything that says ending BF so early could cause their kids and themselves problems.

Emotion in discussion doesn't work.
I've seen this in the abortion debate too.

For people worrying about me terrorising 'SIL' with my militant threats of how her child will certainly die due to formula, lol
Actually I just wanted to pass on some reputable links like I was looking for, so I didn't really have to get involved in any argument.
In our circle, if ANYTHING is bullied into people, it's bottlefeeding. She's definately being encouraged to use a bottle by her family and friends, as I was. :-(
I had to stay at home when my son was born as my family absolutely did not want me breastfeeding around them and constantly bugged me about giving him a bottle like a normal baby has.
I don't have the energy to argue against all these people, so cold hard facts are what I would think of as effective, if anything.