Breastfeeding makes me miserable

[froglegs]

My son is 4 weeks old and I am breast and bottle feeding. The truth is that I do not enjoy breastfeeding him. It takes so long and I spend my whole day feeding him and he still doesnt seem satisfied. I end up giving him a bottle so he will sleep and I can have a cup of tea! I have been diagnosed with pnd and am taking antidpressants. I think the whole breastfeeding thing is making me worse. On one hand I dread each breastfeeding session, but on the other hand I would be racked with guilt if I gave up totally. The midwifes are telling me to feed feed feed all day and night and when I am not feeding I should be expressing and it will get better but the thought of it makes my cry. Is that really the way it has to be? I feeling I am missing out on enjoying the first special weeks with my baby. Also how do people feed at night without falling asleep?. I havent slept for my than 2 hours at a time for 4 weeks and I am cracking up! Any advice? I am reaching crisis point. I really want to give up but not sure I can cope with the guilt - everyone makes you feel so guilty!

If had endless positioning advice and been to breastfeeding cafes and seen midives and my GP. I alsways feel fine when they are here or I am seeing them and for about 2 hours after then it all goes downhill when I am on my own. Whats cluster feeding? Ihavent been told about this.

Cluster feeding is when the baby feeds loads to boost your supply...happens when first born, and massively at 12 weeks.

And about the TV....there must be something you can do whilst feeding, audio books?

Ps I had my baby early so never pretty much knew nothing about breastfeeding before I had the baby. I was due to got to a breastfeeding workshop but had the baby before I had a chance to go. The advice I got in the hospital was very poor. In fact I had a absoultly terrible post-natal 'care' and it really really affected me. (Kings College Hosp in south London, in case anyone is interested) - but thats another issue altogther!

Yes, I think my terrible birth experience has contributed to my depression.

I am feel a bit better that the continous feeding is normal. I wish someone had told me that at the beginning when he was first born.

He hasnt been weighed in two weeks so I don't knwo if he is putting on any weight. I just have to assume he is!

I used to put the hoover or hairdryer on so I could relax in the bath, the noise kept the baby settled and drowned out little moans...

I also invested in a swing for dc4 who cried almost constantly....ebay is brilliant for these.

some have no bids and are ending within a couple of hours

froglegs do you have a vibrating bouncy chair?
It gave me a bit of a break, even when I was bouncing it with my foot to get him off to sleep sometimes.
I had a horrible time bfing at the start and was in so much pain on my nipples, thrush, mastitis...etc. There were many hurdles and I, too, hated hearing "just feed feed feed" or "use breastmilk on it" for every little thing that happened to him! It was SO difficult! But, I got through it and carried on until just after 12 months. I'm not much help, but just wanted to let you know I've been there and it was really hard. I sympathise and empathise.
btw what you described sounds like thrush and is very common to get from antibiotics. Get some flucanazole. You can get it otc as well as perscribed. It's an oral tablet and clears it up quickly. Then some nystatin for the baby's mouth and your nipples just to prevent further spread.

if you don't have a bouncy chair, I have one my DS has outgrown and I'm in Surrey It vibrates and was a godsend for our baby who never wanted to be put down.

Here are some things I really want to know about breast feeding:

have I ruined my chances of having enough milk if I have been part ff even if I stp ff altogether?

How long should he feed from each breast?
someone told me it was 20 on each side.

If I dont have had 'full' feeling does it mean i don't have enough milk?

How will I know when he is full?

when will Ive cracked it!?

I realise now that dispite nct classes and endless midwives visits I really know very little about breastfeeding!

oh yes and should I hold my breast away from his nose so he can breath?

You poor thing.

I'm certainly not calm or capable and did a lot of sobbing and wailing in the first weeks after my first DC was born. Both mine have been crap sleepers and I don't cope without sleep, so it's been hellish at times and still is some days. Mumsnet has helped me get through.

I don't know about feeding for hours and hours constantly - both mine have done this in the evenings and for periods of the night but not literally all day. Perhaps tiktok has some advice there?

Is he calm in a sling?

For feeding with a hand free, it helps if you have a good breastfeeding cushion.

I had my second DC at Kings and first at Tommy's. Post-natal care was rubbish at both. Did they leave you to get on with it? Did you not get much comfort or kindness or help with positioning? IME the night shifts were the worst -if you pressed the buzzer for help then the midwives eventually turned up all snappy and resentful and reluctant to help. I felt really weepy about it after my first, but was a bit stronger the second time around and went fully prepared not to get any help at all. Would it help you to post about your experiences?

I hope you don't feel bombarded by all the posts - we are trying to help.

If you are looking for 'permission' to stop bfing (which of course you don't need, but you know what I mean) or support to carry on, you'll find it here.

frog : hope I can help with some answers.

"have I ruined my chances of having enough milk if I have been part ff even if I stop ff altogether?"

No.

"How long should he feed from each breast?
someone told me it was 20 on each side."

Anyone who tells you that can safely be ignored. There is no 'right' time. You follow your baby's lead.

"If I dont have had 'full' feeling does it mean i don't have enough milk?"

No. Not at all - you will feel fuller at some times than at others but even 'empty' feeling breasts have milk in. Many women who are established breastfeeders never feel full. You cannot guage supply by feeling your breasts.

"How will I know when he is full?"

His behaviour and reactions.

"when will Ive cracked it!?"

When you feel confident and know the process works - that's not a date on the calendar

As for holding breast away - unless you have very large soft breasts, this is not normally necessary as the baby's head is tipped back a bit anyway, and not buried in the breast.

sorry - posted before seeing your latest questions, but see Tiktok has replied.

It does help thanks.

I do have large breasts. A lot of the time he sounds like he is suffocating and pulls away a lot to gasp air.

another thing is that sometimes he falls asleep after five min feed but wakes up for more food as soon as I put time down - esp at night this can go on for hours. should I keep waking him up until he has had a good feed?

sorry about all the questions!

froglegs - I hesitate to say it as you have done it a zillion times, but getting someone who knows what they are looking for to observe a feed should help. It's not helpful for a baby to have to come off to gasp for air...holding the baby so his face is at a different angle should avoid this (ie so he's tipped back slightly).

When he wakes up, he prob needs your arms and your comfort as well as food - can you keep him close so you are not actually putting him down and expecting him to sleep away from you? Waking him up when he drops off is likely to upset him.

at hanaflower and yes, almost ditto

I could never put mine down till they were in deep sleep - about 10/15 minutes after they first went to sleep. If put down any sooner, they were in a fragile light sleep state and semi-aware of their surroundings and would wake instantly. Maybe this is what's happening?

Frogslegs- you've had some good advice on how to help your breastfeeding, I'd give it all a try if you feel like you want to continue breastfeeding.

We've had a lot of "It was hard, but I struggled on and it was worth it" anecdotes, so I'm going to give my own perspective which is somewhat from the other side. I suspect I will get flamed, but I think frogslegs needs to hear this.

It is your choice as to whether you breastfeed or bottle feed. If you really feel bottle feeding would help you regain some mental stability, go with your feelings. The fact of the matter is that people will make stupid comments and judge you whichever choice you make, and how you feel it's working for you is the best gauge of whether you should continue, end of. I caught flak from HCP and members of the public for breast and bottle feeding. Everyone has a bloody opinion on what you're "meant" to be doing when you have kids, you'll get used to cheerfully ignoring it with practice

I crucified myself for mix feeding, feeling selfish for needing sleep and a small amount of time to myself. I'll be honest, and I know this wont go down well on these boards, but I fecking hated breastfeeding. Some women are fine with little sleep. I'm (no exagerration) a crazed madwoman with little sleep. Some women really enjoy the sensations of breastfeeding, I don't even let DH have much access to my boobs in the...er... marital bed, so I really disliked having a baby suck milk from them.

I remember DH taking a pic of me holding DD just after she was born, thinking "fake a smile" because I felt so bad it was utterly unnatural to smile. If I'd just gotten my DH to give her a bottle whilst I got a good 6 hour chunk of sleep (as we later did anyway), things would have been a LOT better.

If I have another child I will try to breastfeed and get better advice/support than last time, but if I'm so tired I feel like I'm about to lose my mind I'll give the baby a bottle and sleep. Life is too short, babyhood even shorter to waste beating myself up for not breastfeeding.

dietzma - your experience and outlook are as valid as anyone else's and you deserve support just as much as the next mother.

Please don't perpetuate the myth that sharing this experience of ff on mumsnet is likely to lead to a flaming - it doesn't!

Posters who judge or who belittle or who dismiss or who scorn.....they might find they get a bit of an unpleasant response, but no one needs to worry about posting the way you did

Froglegs - I'm sorry to hear you are having a tough time. Your posts sound identical to mine - had my dd in May. Traumatic birth, awful postnatal care, pnd, antidepressents, bf nightmare.

I got to 4 weeks of bf then realised that it was actually bf that was making me depressed, as it was going so badly. I couldn't cope with a baby who wanted to suck 24 hrs a day. It got to a point when I couldn't sleep even when she was. I was bf, expressing, and topping up with bottles. I know some mothers take all this in their stride, but I just couldn't cope.

I really hope that bf gets better for you (if thats what you really want). It sadly didn't for me, and I made the agonising decision to switch to formula. Although I felt like the biggest failure known to motherhood, I can honestly say it was the best decision I've made. I began to sleep, baby was happy, cloud of depression lifted. I absoloutley love being a mum now!

If you do decide to give up bf, it helped me to surround myself with people that were understanding and supportive of my decision. That made me feel like a 'good' mother and helped the 'grieving' process. I will always know that bf is best etc (and feel sad it didn't work), but have now been able to move on.

If on the other hand you persevere with bf, you've had some really good advice from the other posts. I'm obviously no expert so won't offer any!

I realy feel for you, my DS is 9 weeks old today and bf really makes me miserable at times. I enjoy the closeness of it but the relentlessness of cluster feeding every 2-3 hours really gets me down and I'm too exhausted to do much most of the time. Have also got issues with ds only gaining weight slowly and hv getting twitchy about it. Feeding has felt totally unfulfilling at times and I've been close to switching to formula several times.DS likes to be on me ALL the time-he won't sleep anywhere but on me.

Things that are helping:

• Taking it literally one feed at a time. Every feed is an achievement when you're struggling so give yourself a pat on the back.
• Being kind to myself, not expecting too much of myself given that I am so tired. I've stopped beating myself up if I'm too tired to go out each day.
• The hairdryer. White noise works a treat for us when ds is in agony from wind or he's fidgeting at the breast.
• Focusing on the things I like about breastfeeding (for me its the closeness, the feeling of empowerment it gives me).
• A sling. Just getting to grips with it, my nipples have been so sore in the early days that I couldn't bear anything on my chest but it's a godsend around the house, I've got the use of my hands back!
• A cradle swing. Bought from ebay, it has a mobile on it and DS will sit in there long enough for me to eat a meal two-handed
• I typed out the phrase "this is temporary" in huge letters and have pinned it up n the wall opposite my sofa(feel free to laugh!)
• Tiktok referred me to a link to the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers and I spoke to someone on the helpline. She was briliant, had been through everything that was making me so miserable(2hr feeding exhaustion, nipple blebs, mastitis, intefering hv's stressing about her son's weight, the initial shell-shock of loss of freedom that came with having a baby.) We talked for ages and at the end she gave me her home phone no and told me to now think of her as my breastfeeding counsellor. Give the helpline a call - 08444 122 949

Am still shattered from no sleep and anxious about the weigh ins but at 9 weeks, the feeding is actually becoming easier and I'm not so sore. For what it's worth, I think you're amazing to still be perserverng through constant feeding when you're so exhausted and depressed. Whatever you decide to do, well done on getting to 4 weeks.

I'm happy to hear that tiktok. This board is (for obvious reasons) not somwhere I visit often, breast and bottle feeding forums have a bit of a rep for ff/bf antagonism, glad to see it's unfounded.

Other post took ages to type one handed - x posted with your questions.

RE feeding with large breasts-mine are massive as well. Get some comfy pillows and a bf counsellor to come out and show you the rugby ball position. It's quite comfortable for big breasted women and you can see the baby is breathing ok.