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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Will bf work out? Any help appreciated (long)

200 replies

berolina · 26/05/2005 20:23

Hi everyone. As some of you know I had my first baby (a ds) last Weds . We were on the maternity ward until Monday and then he was transferred to the neonatal ward because of his jaundice (needed phototherapy), but we were allowed home today. I was and am determined to bf and put him on the breast from the beginning - latching on and sucking didn't seem a problem. My milk started coming in on the Sat. We started weighing him before and after feeding on that day - he wasn't getting much from me at all and the nurses said I needed to give him pre-formula to stop him losing weight (he weighed 2820g at birth). On the Sun I started expressing to try and get the milk flowing. Things were looking up, but after he was transferred because of the jaundice and was also losing some weight he began to get very sleepy when feeding and would also often refuse to latch on - he'd suck briefly, find no milk immediately forthcoming and scream . Often it would work, but he was taking an hour to get 30-45g out of me. Anyway, the doctors/midwives/nurses said he wasn't getting enough to help with the jaundice and the weight loss, so I've been (reluctantly) giving formula - I always put him on the breast first, and I've been expressing like mad, although it takes me an hour to get to 60-100ml and I then can't express after the next feeding because my breasts are too empty. In other words, he's getting a mixture of (very small amounts of) direct breast milk, EBM and formula, and seems to be doing OK on it, but I'm worried he might give up on the breast because if he refuses it, he gets the bottle (of course). I've started expressing briefly before putting him on the breast and sometimes that seems to work, because he doesn't have to make the effort to get the milk flowing, but it doesn't always. Other times he just goes on the breast with no fuss, other times he refuses it completely. There doesn't seem to be a pattern. This evening he refused the breast (with frustrated screaming and a brief perod asleep) for quite a while, but then suddenly went onto the one I hadn't expressed from! I think I don't yet have a huge amount of milk and that's not helping, and everyone at the hospital said it was medically necessary to feed him up a bit (it's not that they aren't supportive of bf either), but I'm absolutely paranoid now that he won't bf and I'll be stuck expressing for months (or even having to continue to mix EBM with formula). I can't help feeling a bit of a failure and worried/guilty about giving him any formula at all, although I know that the stress I have been and am under won't be helping my milk supply either. Any hints, ideas, similar experiences? TIA!

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berolina · 13/06/2005 14:59

he also makes squeaking and sort of grunting sounds - don't know whether that's normal or just digestion, as he's always done it to some extent and no-one seemed worried, but it seems to be increasing. He often has hiccups too but then again, he had them all the time in the womb .

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aloha · 13/06/2005 15:10

You know, all this sounds really normal to me. Honestly it does. All babies regurgitate a bit, also as babies get older they do sleep less, want to be held and entertained more and so quite often cry more. A trip out in the pram or even being walked around the house and shown their own reflection in the mirror etc can entertain them. Crying is just what many babies do. It's how they communicate.
As for falling asleep on the breast -that's INCREDIBLY common! My ds did it all the time. It really is just because it is so soothing and comforting. It does tend to get less noticeable as your baby gets older. I tried all sorts with ds - damp cool flannels, blowing on him - to keep him awake but frankly I might just as well have left him to grow out of it and gone with the flow.

tiktok · 13/06/2005 15:23

I agree with aloah - please don't let anyone bounce you into thinking there is anything wrong with any of this. Reflux is overdiagnosed IMO - it does exist, but not this epidemic we are seeing at the moment

Your baby sounds normal and healthy, and your breastfeeding sounds normal and healthy.

Babies do fall asleep at the breast after a short time. You can, if you want, tie yourself in knots trying to 'make' him take more, or you can wait, and he will wake up by himself at some probably incovenient moment and want second helpings

The smelly breath thing? Well, breastfed babies' breath does smell very slightly like sourish milk, I sometimes think, though I don't find it in the least unpleasant.

Crying may mean 'please hold me - I love it' or 'please give me some more of your lovely milk....I didn't quite get enough so please don't think I am finished!'

Grunting and squeaking is normal.

I hope the doctor reassures you of everything and doesn't say something stupid to undermine you.

You are doing so well, and so is your baby

Everything sounds NORMAL (yes, shouting, sorry!!)

LIZS · 13/06/2005 16:48

Agree that don't assume it's reflux yet, or allow the dr to fob you off with that as a diagnosis, it could well be just a phase. If you eavesdrop on May 2005 babies thread you'll find a few others less than settled atm and it could be completely unrelated to feeding. Please just try to enjoy him and follow Tiktok's advice, going with his rhythms of feeding and snoozing.

aloha · 13/06/2005 18:04

Oh, and babies are SO noisy! Grunting and squeaking like little farmyard animals. My friend's SIL is a GP and she says one of the biggest reasons she sees new mothers in her surgery is because they are worried about their babies' noises. They are NORMAL (just thought I'd shout along with Tiktok )
Honestly, a bit of spit up is so normal I'd be amazed if I saw a baby that didn't do it. Why do you think they make muslins? It doesn't mean reflux. Sometimes the greedy little creatures just have a bit more milk than they know what to do with, and sometimes they have a bit of wind and a burp or hiccup brings up a bit of milk. It isn't a problem. Hiccups is normal and fine too!
Your baby sounds absolutely fine - in fact, he is clearly getting bigger and stronger hence all the noise!
Can I also say that I really don't think breastfeeding is 'tiring' for babies - what it is, is relaxing, which is quite different. Like a warm bath, an aromatherapy massage or a glass of wine!

berolina · 15/06/2005 18:01

hi there - ta for all reassurance! doc says not to worry unless projectile puking.
ds wants to feed almost literally all the time today! only gave 1 bottle fomrula this am and here and there a bit of ebm so he's mostly been on breast. not sure he's getting enough.

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Maisiemog · 15/06/2005 18:23

Berolina, that's what almost everyone who bfs thinks. Do a search on archived threads and see how many. Then do a search for the same mumsnetters months later and see how many of their babies are doing well and thriving despite thinking they weren't getting enough milk. I bet it's loads.
As far as I know the only way of knowing is if the baby's alert and seems healthy and/or getting the baby weighed.
I had a similar experience to you and my ds is now exclusively breastfed. My main problems were taking it personally (big mistake, but inevitable), and getting stressed, oh and managing the whole routine of expressing and feeding - so tiring especially at night.
However, I came out the other end and it's all ok now. It just took time and bloody-minded determination.

berolina · 15/06/2005 18:33

thanks maisie.
just came back on thread cos i realised how this post sounds - as if i'm never blimmin' satisfied! of course am VERY that ds ( currently asleep in my arm, am posting one-handed) is going on breast at all!!

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berolina · 15/06/2005 18:33

by 'this post' i meant my previous one!

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Maisiemog · 15/06/2005 18:54

Hi Beroline, I love it when someone responds to my posts. Yay! Even though it's a load of rubbish half the time.
I just wanted to clarify about 'taking it personally' I meant I used to think ds was rejecting 'me' when he wouldn't feed. Of course, he's just a little baby and didn't have the brain power to know mummy had feelings, let alone to decide to upset mummy.
But it was soo hard, dp was a star and keep repeating the mantra 'he loves his mummy' to me all the time.
Just like your ds loves his mummy.

berolina · 17/06/2005 12:49

Hi there! 2 things...
First I want to announce yesterday was the first day with NO FORMULA
Second, I've noticed ds has a white coating on his tongue. I'm sure I noticed this days ago or even more than a week ago but forgot about it. Now it's occurred to me that it could be thrush? I have no pain bf though so possibly not as surely I would have caught it from him by now? What else could it be?

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aloha · 17/06/2005 12:51

Guess what?? It's normal!
Doesn't mean anything. Keep going. You are doing brilliantly!

berolina · 17/06/2005 12:53

lol aloha - do I end up with Paranoid Mother of the Year award?

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LIZS · 17/06/2005 12:55

That is great news. Really hope you feel your persistence is starting to pay off.

mears · 17/06/2005 12:55

Well done Berolina

The white coating on his tongue is very probably milk residue. Thrush can look quite patchy with plaques on the gums rather than just white coating of tongue.

You must be so pleased with yourself. Remember that in the normal course of breastfeeding you will have days of seeming to feed all the time and other days when ne will be really settled. Go with the flow, scuse the pun!

kama · 17/06/2005 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

welshmum · 17/06/2005 12:59

Hi Bero - glad it's all coming together for you.
I'm smiling reading all the things your ittle one is doing while bfing - mine's doing exactly the same, and I mean exactly the same. It's like there's a grumpy, noisy animal in bed next to me Hope you're reassured by everything Aloha, Tiktok etc have said - these ladies speak great sense. How old is your babe now? Ds is 3 weeks and 3 days.

tribpot · 17/06/2005 13:32

Berolina, brilliant news about the no formula day, you must be v proud of yourself and ds!

popsycal · 17/06/2005 13:35

oh fantastic!!!!!!!!
keep going

Cooperoo · 17/06/2005 13:48

Bero - That is brilliant!!! My dd was diagnosed with thrush on her tongue when she was just three days old and put on antibiotics. I was really upset that she was getting a dose of drugs so young and the antibiotics made no difference. I had no symptoms either. After three days I was told to stop the treatment and that it was just a milk coating after all. She still gets it now if she is drinking milk. I am sure it is just a milk coating!!! Just ask your m/w next time you see her. So pleased for you after all you have been through.

chipmonkey · 17/06/2005 21:43

Berolina, when ds2 was little, our HV said the white coating on his tongue was thrush. My GP then prescibed an anti-fungal gel for his tongue. Three weeks later he had a check-up with a paediatrician who informed me it was just milk! If there are no white patches on the inside of the cheeks or on the gums then its not thrush. Well done on the no formula day!

chipmonkey · 17/06/2005 21:45

And Cooperoo, antibiotics surely wouldn't cure thrush, I would have thought they'd make it worse if anything as the antibiotics would kill the "good" bacteria that keep thrush at bay.

Cooperoo · 18/06/2005 06:13

I think it was Nystatin drops dd was prescribed and I had a cream for my boobs. TBH it is a bit hazy now. I am probably confused and don't really mean antibiotics although this is what I thought it was at the time. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Nightynight · 18/06/2005 12:56

wow, brilliant berolina. do you feel like an Earth Mother now??!

berolina · 18/06/2005 13:14

Nightynight - good grief no! Earth mother, moi? It's just lovely and ds is VERY sweet on the boob!

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