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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Will bf work out? Any help appreciated (long)

200 replies

berolina · 26/05/2005 20:23

Hi everyone. As some of you know I had my first baby (a ds) last Weds . We were on the maternity ward until Monday and then he was transferred to the neonatal ward because of his jaundice (needed phototherapy), but we were allowed home today. I was and am determined to bf and put him on the breast from the beginning - latching on and sucking didn't seem a problem. My milk started coming in on the Sat. We started weighing him before and after feeding on that day - he wasn't getting much from me at all and the nurses said I needed to give him pre-formula to stop him losing weight (he weighed 2820g at birth). On the Sun I started expressing to try and get the milk flowing. Things were looking up, but after he was transferred because of the jaundice and was also losing some weight he began to get very sleepy when feeding and would also often refuse to latch on - he'd suck briefly, find no milk immediately forthcoming and scream . Often it would work, but he was taking an hour to get 30-45g out of me. Anyway, the doctors/midwives/nurses said he wasn't getting enough to help with the jaundice and the weight loss, so I've been (reluctantly) giving formula - I always put him on the breast first, and I've been expressing like mad, although it takes me an hour to get to 60-100ml and I then can't express after the next feeding because my breasts are too empty. In other words, he's getting a mixture of (very small amounts of) direct breast milk, EBM and formula, and seems to be doing OK on it, but I'm worried he might give up on the breast because if he refuses it, he gets the bottle (of course). I've started expressing briefly before putting him on the breast and sometimes that seems to work, because he doesn't have to make the effort to get the milk flowing, but it doesn't always. Other times he just goes on the breast with no fuss, other times he refuses it completely. There doesn't seem to be a pattern. This evening he refused the breast (with frustrated screaming and a brief perod asleep) for quite a while, but then suddenly went onto the one I hadn't expressed from! I think I don't yet have a huge amount of milk and that's not helping, and everyone at the hospital said it was medically necessary to feed him up a bit (it's not that they aren't supportive of bf either), but I'm absolutely paranoid now that he won't bf and I'll be stuck expressing for months (or even having to continue to mix EBM with formula). I can't help feeling a bit of a failure and worried/guilty about giving him any formula at all, although I know that the stress I have been and am under won't be helping my milk supply either. Any hints, ideas, similar experiences? TIA!

OP posts:
Original poster
berolina · 30/05/2005 22:13

Thanks all!
ds got hungry just ater I'd finished last bout of expressing - latched on!!! with the nipple shields and drank away, could see milk too and thought I felt a letdown tingle which I haven't really felt before (sort of a sensation between slight pain and tickling? sound familiar anyone?) and after he came off the shield once I could see him opening his mouth as if for the 'real' nipple and he did indeed go on without a shield . Then he got too frantic though and absolutely couldn't find his stride again so we gave him some EBM. According to the scales he only got 20ml (g) direct from the breast but I certainly saw milk flowing.
I tend to change sides fairly often during feeding for the simple reason that if things on one breast get too fraught, putting him to the other breast can help. Glad to know it has another purpose (was a bit paranoid about the breast-emptying).
Sleep - what's that? {wink]
Thanks throckenholt. Haven't had a chance to read it yet.
Here's to a successful night

OP posts:
mears · 30/05/2005 22:36

That's good Berolina. Please, please try feeding him without the scales. You truly do not need to do that. Trust me, I am a bloody good midwife

ps are you weighing during the night too?

throckenholt · 31/05/2005 08:12

hope things are working better now.

Don't switch sides too often - the rich hind milk is the stuff they get later in the feed - o if you switch too often then he will get a lot of fore milk which will quench his thirst and leave him hungry sooner.

Trust both of you - you will work it out soon - sounds like you both need to be a little bit more patient and believe it will happen .

Cooperoo · 31/05/2005 10:25

Hi Berolina, just wanted to give you my support too. You have got some fab advice here. I am so glad Mears has said not to weigh at every feed. I am no expert at all so didn't want to say before but I think this is causing you more anxiety than helping. Breast milk is different in consistency etc to formula anyway so I don't think you should compare the amounts consumed in the same way. You are doing brilliantly and certainly have enough milk. Trust yourself and your body. Good Luck today. It certainly sounded like let down that you described. I didn't feel this for 2 or 3 weeks last time. Things are working!

Original poster
berolina · 31/05/2005 12:35

hi everyone
thanks for all support
this bf thing is a 1-step-forward, 2-step-back thing... he had good drinks using the nipple shield - no weighing mears! - this morning, but just now was not to be persuaded to take either nipple (except v briefly) or shield. had some ebm and is now asleep exhausted in my arms (hence no caps). gosh, it is hard to hang in there. am getting v angry at hospital for not making the option of cup feeding formula available to me - i can accept he needed some formula but it was just given in a bottle and i wasnt aware or made aware of cup (syinge etc.) option. it is prob for time reasons i suppose but i was there for EVERY feed - not once did anyone else excep me and dh feed him, not even in scbu - so all they wouldve had to do is give me the cup and briefly show me how to use it!!! ok i might still have had this problem, but i might not have done! am going to write a letter of complaint, partic as some other things werent ideal. grrrrrr

OP posts:
Original poster
berolina · 31/05/2005 12:38

oh lizs, nappies fine, jaundice gone
throckenholt, thank you so much for email, will reply when more compos mentis

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Hausfrau · 31/05/2005 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tribpot · 31/05/2005 13:34

Oh berolina, I just wanted to say my heart went out to you when I read your message from 4 a.m. yesterday. Please don't worry that whatever happens with your feeding you will damage your relationship with your baby. You're doing a fantastic job, and I'm sending you a "June power" salute. (This is like a black power salute but for Junies)

Keep up the good work and before you know it, I'll be on posting about how hard I am finding breastfeeding and you can be telling me it'll all work out with patience and practice

Hausfrau · 31/05/2005 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
berolina · 31/05/2005 15:04

awww thanks trib - and b!

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Original poster
berolina · 31/05/2005 18:38

Um, well, not the most successful afternoon. have to admit that the feeding before last I was too tired, wound up and upset to go through the 'teach ds to breastfeed' thing and was worried it would become a battle of wills, so gave him a bottle - of formula . Did express afterwards though. Another failed bf attempt later and I'm feeling pretty frazzled. But in between feedings I sat on MN with a zonked-out ds in my arms and was comforted to find the 'how long was bf difficult for' thread (can't remember exact title but have resurrected it). I also read a couple of desperately sad threads in the bereavement section, which has really put things into perspective. I have my beautiful gorgeous ds in my arms, he's healthy, despite his shaky start, and he's getting my milk, even though it's not exclusively and not quite the way I'd imagined. At least he is getting some and the health benefits that go along with it. And for all of that I'm very very grateful.
He sometimes seems to be fighting a bit with digestion after a feed, although he rarely vomits up more than a tiny bit and his nappies are fine. Could it be the formula, or is that normal in a newborn?

OP posts:
Cooperoo · 31/05/2005 18:48

Hi Bero,
Sorry no real new advice but wanted to say SLEEP when ds is sleeping don't spend time on MN as addictive as it is . Take care.

throckenholt · 31/05/2005 18:55

I think that small vomiting is called posseting - it is very normal with a lot of babies.

If you can get some sleep - let someone else feed him for one night - either expressed or formula - whatever you have. Then try and remain calm and relaxed - you are picking up stress from each other and probably that is making things worse - it certainly did for me.

Your baby is still not even 2 weeks old - I have heard of a lot of people who it took up to a month (or more ) to get breastfeeding cracked. Your baby can directly feed so you are well on the way - just a matter of time and patience now

Cooperoo · 31/05/2005 19:01

Throckenholt - You are so much better with the advice than me!
Bero - FWIW having re-read my diary it was week 4 before dd's feeding settled down. It felt that I was at it permanently till then and that was without the problems you are facing. {{{hugs}}}. Stick with it. You are doing great.

Cooperoo · 31/05/2005 19:01

It will be worth it!!

Hausfrau · 01/06/2005 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LIZS · 01/06/2005 09:07

Agree the possetting doesn't sound significant, all babies do it to an extent and could be trapped air or just overfull! It sounds as though he is starting to get the hang of it but will still need some patience, please try to get some rest or you will feel even more frazzled and get easily frustrated if he doesn't latch on straight off.

Original poster
berolina · 01/06/2005 10:59

Morning!
Well, if I needed proof he can do it, I got it last night. He'd had a feed but wouldn't settle, so I picked him up twice and both times put him on the boob 'on the offchance', and hey presto! No nipple shields, nothing. I could also hear swallowing and see his cheeks moving so I don't think it was just comfort sucking. Again, this morning after his EBM (it didn't work before) he went on no problem. Afterwards I expressed and it took a relatively long time for flow to get going from the boob he fed from - does that mean he was getting something? [hopeful emoticon] Didn't work again this am but I suppose we have to keep at it.

OP posts:
Original poster
berolina · 01/06/2005 10:59

Have decided to try and work without the shields as much as poss because even they don't work all the time and the ideal is without.

OP posts:
Original poster
berolina · 01/06/2005 11:21

Oh, and he hit his birth weight today (on day 14 and original EDD)

OP posts:
throckenholt · 01/06/2005 11:24

if you found it difficult to express this morning then it probably means he had got a lot out - usually I found first thing in the morning was when it was easiest and most productive to express.

Don't push expressing too much if he is feeding well because you may increase your supply too much (you don't want to have to deal with blocked ducts or masitis if you can avoid it).

Only express if you think he hasn't had a good feed - one or the other but not both.

mears · 01/06/2005 17:26

Berolina - some babies do not reach their birthweight by 3 weeks so you are doing really well. Glad you decided to feed mainly without the shields - he will feed from the breast more effectively that way. I hope now all test weighing has stopped. Well done for working so hard at it. He is proving to you that he can do it and I am sure you will get there. If he seems still hungry after a feed just put him back on again. The breasts are never empty! You will not always get milk when expressing but babies are much more expert at getting the milk out and will get more. You will have good days and bad days - that is all normal in this rocky roads of motherhood

popsycal · 01/06/2005 19:29

oh berolina you are doing brilliantly with his weight!!!
a tip i learnt to tell wheter they are feeding or comfort sucking is not just to watch ot for wiggly ears, but for the small muscle on is temple to be moving

keep going - back to birth weight in 2 weeks is fantastic - neither of my chunky monkeys did that!!

Original poster
berolina · 02/06/2005 14:36

Afternoon all.
Well, ds seems to be gradually going on to the breast more often and for longer (although there are still enough feeds where he's not to be persuaded onto the boob). My new worry is that my milk supply seems to be dwindling! I've no idea how that's happened due to the success above and to the fact that I'm now expressing after every feed (before I was expressing after maybe 6-7 feeds out of 8-9). Getting less out has also tempted me to stay pumping for longer, which I know probably isn't good... I just expressed for about 50-55 mins and got a grand total of 40ml - before I was getting (often) twice that for that period of time. Any advice? I'm trying not to panic but it's hard...

OP posts:
Cooperoo · 02/06/2005 15:02

Hooray Bero, you are getting there.
Your supply won't be dwindling. Make sure you are eating and drinking enough and resting as much as possible though. Some experts will be along soon I am sure. Expressing is very different to a baby feeding. I was never very successful expressing. The only way it worked for me was to feed dd on one side and express on the other and I never really got that much even then. However I know dd had plenty as she settled well, grew and put on weight etc. Take care and don't panic....