Will bf work out? Any help appreciated (long)

[berolina]

Hi everyone. As some of you know I had my first baby (a ds) last Weds . We were on the maternity ward until Monday and then he was transferred to the neonatal ward because of his jaundice (needed phototherapy), but we were allowed home today. I was and am determined to bf and put him on the breast from the beginning - latching on and sucking didn't seem a problem. My milk started coming in on the Sat. We started weighing him before and after feeding on that day - he wasn't getting much from me at all and the nurses said I needed to give him pre-formula to stop him losing weight (he weighed 2820g at birth). On the Sun I started expressing to try and get the milk flowing. Things were looking up, but after he was transferred because of the jaundice and was also losing some weight he began to get very sleepy when feeding and would also often refuse to latch on - he'd suck briefly, find no milk immediately forthcoming and scream . Often it would work, but he was taking an hour to get 30-45g out of me. Anyway, the doctors/midwives/nurses said he wasn't getting enough to help with the jaundice and the weight loss, so I've been (reluctantly) giving formula - I always put him on the breast first, and I've been expressing like mad, although it takes me an hour to get to 60-100ml and I then can't express after the next feeding because my breasts are too empty. In other words, he's getting a mixture of (very small amounts of) direct breast milk, EBM and formula, and seems to be doing OK on it, but I'm worried he might give up on the breast because if he refuses it, he gets the bottle (of course). I've started expressing briefly before putting him on the breast and sometimes that seems to work, because he doesn't have to make the effort to get the milk flowing, but it doesn't always. Other times he just goes on the breast with no fuss, other times he refuses it completely. There doesn't seem to be a pattern. This evening he refused the breast (with frustrated screaming and a brief perod asleep) for quite a while, but then suddenly went onto the one I hadn't expressed from! I think I don't yet have a huge amount of milk and that's not helping, and everyone at the hospital said it was medically necessary to feed him up a bit (it's not that they aren't supportive of bf either), but I'm absolutely paranoid now that he won't bf and I'll be stuck expressing for months (or even having to continue to mix EBM with formula). I can't help feeling a bit of a failure and worried/guilty about giving him any formula at all, although I know that the stress I have been and am under won't be helping my milk supply either. Any hints, ideas, similar experiences? TIA!

good advice tt
just wanted to say think the nct have bf counselors too- thats all

But berolina is in Germany, chilledchic, and NCT isn't! Anyone can call the NCT bf line from anywhere, but for person to person help, it can't be the NCT outside the UK.

sorry berolina i didnt realise you were in germany-good luck with everything whatever you decide to do x

Oh Bero - It makes me sad to hear you beating yourself up so much. It is not necessary. You are doing brilliantly and you are so obviously determined. It still can work. I don't understand why your m/w says you will always have to mix feed?? V odd. Call the LLL and get someone round. There will be no judgements made. You are a new mum and you are doing brilliantly. Have either you or DH had a break from ds yet? Just one of you taking him for a walk for half an hour while the other rests. I understand you won't want to be away from him esp after being separated at the start but fresh air and a little breather may help you gain some strength and perspective again. You can do it, but you do need support and as you dh is not entirely convinced at the mo please call LLL. Tiktok is right to perhaps avoid all of us too . Take care.

Tiktok is totally right about staying away from mumsnet at the moment. The best support would be hands-on breastfeeding counsellor support. Come back later and let us know how you have got on. Mumsnet is pretty time consuming and can bamboozle your brain. Chill out from us and chill with your baby [and that glass of wine

morning.
oh so you don't want me around then (flounce emoticon)
no seriously, i came to same conclusion this morning, you have all given me such great advice and now i have to move to practical trying-out stage. mw was here this morning and we had a serious talk about the issue - she says deffo carry on trying but i really need to try and 'let go' a bit as she put it - for my own and ds's benefit. she suggested visualising every bit of bm i get into ds as a powerful antibody-packed bug-zapping health potion - which it is really i suppose ! - just so i can feel more positive about the situatuion as is now. am going to ring lll today with a view to one-to-one advice - i suspect something's not quite right with positioning.
anyway, will drop in and give progress reports.
THANK YOU ALL!!!!

Good for you ! I really hope it works out to your satisfaction. Good luck.

Will be thinking of how you are getting on. I am glad your MW is being positive. I see no reason why you will not be able to achieve exclusive feeding with good support. However, if that challenge is too great for you remember that mixed feeeding is better than no breastmilk at all. Good luck Berolina

Second all that Mears wrote down. Good Luck and will be thinking of you.

berolina - as everyone has said you are doing so well.

As I have told you - my ds was exactly the same as yours - and by about 6 weeks at the latest he was totally breastfed, exclusively until 5.5 months, and then with solid food until 12 months. He was not damaged in any way by the rough start or by the formula.

My DH was the same as yours - it is your first baby and he doesn't like watching you struggle - but if you can make him realise that you are not the only one to go through it successfully, and how much it means to you - and what you really need is him to support you wholeheartedly for the next few weeks.

I really think it would be worth you trying a couple of days in bed with no bottles just feeding whenever you want/need to.

I hope it works out for you all soon. Good luck.

hi from Dusseldorf berolina!
hope it's going well by the time you read this. I've been there too, with helpful dx offering formula, baby unable to latch on...we got there in the end. FWIW, I too found breastfeeding lying down to be particularly relaxing and easy.

Update!
I think we might be - slowly - getting there... - ds is starting to spend longer on the boob and go on MUCH more often. He's still not getting huge amounts out so am still topping up with EBM and less formula! But I do think he's learning to do the stronger longer sucks and just generally seems more contented at the breast.
Now I've got a kind of occasional mild tingling pain in one boob just under the nipple - it's not sore from the outside and I felt it the first time when ds was on the breast and sucking relatively vigorously. What might that be?

Great to hear from you, berolina...all that sounds great, but how do you know he is not getting huge amounts? He may not need huge amounts, anyway....sounds to me as if you are test weighing again. Please don't!!! If you think he needs some more at the 'end' of the feed, then give him some more from your breasts

The tingling could be let down . Most women have a few let downs per feed. Most are not aware of all of them. Some are not aware of any, ever.

i used to get massive tingling let downs esp with dd1. never get it these days with dd2,

Sounds good !

That feeling is probably letdown.

And I agree with Tiktok - don't worry about weighing - just let him feed when and as much as he wants to. Hopefully very soon you can cut out the formula and expressing altogether.

Definately sounds like 'let down' of milk. Glad you sound more positive. Hopefully you will soon be confident enough to wean him off the top-ups. Keep going girl

been offline with computer problems but this is the first thread i looked for

hope you are continuing to do ok

Evening all. Just v briefly - we are definitely on the up - things are not sorted yet but it is getting better and better. Another heartfelt 'thank you' and another update (positive, I hope ) soon!

Fantastic! Really glad to hear things are working out for you - you must be so proud of yourself (and if you aren't - you should be!)

Glad to 'hear' you sound more positive Berolina. Good luck

Yay Berolina!!! I am so glad for you. It should get better and better from now on. Fingers crossed and good luck. Hope you can ditch the top ups soon. . Feel very proud of yourself!!!

I'm back...
Things still working out reasonably well but ds seems to have developed reflux. It's not really bad at the moment but he seems to be pretty tired on the breast (he still goes on though! ) and I was wondering whether that would have to do with the reflux directly, or just because he's not sleeping as well because of it? We've got a doc's appointment for Weds morning, but I'm a little worried that our progress could be undone in the meantime. Ideas? Advice? Thanks!

What do you mean by 'tired' on the breast? it's totally normal for a breastfeeding baby to look sleepy and relaxed and to close their eyes and , yes, go to sleep. It's because it's so lovely and relaxing for them.
Also, what are the symptoms of reflux you are worried about?

he's started crying after feeds (when he was refusing the breast he was crying before...), seems unhappy and unsettled (will hardly settle atm unless one of us is holding him), seems to be spitting up more frequently, though still not huge amounts, and dh says his (ds's ) breath smells. He's not screaming all the time but is deffo crying more and a lot more difficult to settle than previously. Nappies seem fine and he is feeding about the same amounts.
by 'tired' I mean that he will suck for a bit and then fall asleep and be diffcult to wake unless I actually take him off te breast, then he will wake up and latch on again and the same thing will happen.