If you have an arsey comment about breastfeeding

[SunglassesPolarBear]

come and say it here please, let's get them all out in the open and in one place.
So far today I have seen a comment along the lines of "don't know why you bothered" to someone who was please to have reached 6 months of excl bf, and an incredibly rude and unhelpful comment on a thread started by a woman who was worried that her supply would be affected by her DH giving their 10 day old a bottle of formula. Snotty comments (whether to bfers or ffers) are NOT WELCOME on those sorts of threads, so go on, offload here.

Oh, before we start, some myths I'd like to bust:

• Improved health outcomes of bf babies are not down to social class - that has been accounted for
• People bfing past 3 weeks / 6 months / a year are not doing it just for their own sakes
• It's not only OK to bf in public "if it's done discreetly"

erm..sure more will come up

I haven't read the entire thread, but I was just interested to know, which of these seems worse?

a)Smoking throughout pregnancy, but breastfeeding baby

or

b)Non-smoking pregnancy, but formula feeding baby.

Smoking in pregnancy is strongly implicated in deaths from SIDS, stillbirth, and small for dates babies so obviously it should be avoided at all costs, no matter how you plan to feed.

However, if you do smoke throughout your pregnancy bf is a good idea as it helps protect your baby from respitory illnesses, which as a child of a smoker he or she will be more vulnerable to getting.

Depends on reasons for ff Sneaky.

???? wasting, can you explain that?

Surely, whatever the reasons for ff, not smoking during your pg (and feeding hundreds of toxins into your baby's bloodstream directly) and then ff could not be worse than smoking and then bf .

I should have said reasons for ff and not quitting smoking.
I don't know the statistics on what is worse for the baby, I was thinking from a moral perspective, what the mother's intentions were.
If the mother wanted to quit smoking but was unable, or wanted to bf but was unable, then it's about the same. Different if there was no intention. I'm a relativist.

Just to clarify I am aware that me still smoking in pg is very selfish, I feel guilty everytime I have a fag.I have cut my intake in half but am afraid I was to weak to give up completely without help for withdrawal symptoms. I am not making excuses I have tried my best. But I am glad someone posted the harm of smoking as there maybe someone with more willpower than me who will now be able to give up smoking.

I don't understand why reasons for ff and not quitting are relevant to the question.

Formula feeding increases the existing risks from smoking.

I don't understand option a), Sneaky...a mother who smokes in pregnancy is unikely to stop when her baby is born.

In addition, risks of doing something in pregnancy are different from risks of doing/not doing something after pregnancy, when the baby is here. For instance, you might avoid listeria risks in pg by avoiding certain foods, but it's not an issue afterwards.

Tiktok, Sneaky asked which seemed worse, not what was more harmful to the baby. Intentions are important in making moral judgement imo.

I see, thanks, wasting.

I don't intend to go anywhere near moral judgements, thanks v. much

Probably best!

slushy - there is help out there if you still want to quit.its really important, no matter what age your baby/child is now

and yes, most people benefit from help with the symptoms. not everyone does it on willpower alone. many people have several attempts before they give up completely so please dont think that it wont work for you

I've just found this thread again!

Thankyou Spongebrain, SallyJay (your experience sounds very similar to mine!)Wasting and Stealthpolarbear.

Mumsnet has been a huge thing in getting past the sadness I felt at not b'feeding, and getting over the arsey comments. It is comforting to hear from other women who have been in similar situations. Even though i know it is not the reality, when I had just given up trying to b'feed, it seemed as if everyone around me was b'feeding.

I BF both mine, But what I found was I was getting negative feedback from extended BF who felt I had finished too soon.
I wanted to stop at 12 months my choice. I have nothing against those the extent beyond 12 months, great if thats what you want to do. But why put me down and the like?.

@ dreamer - so sorry to hear that.

hazeyjane, sadly it was the opposite for me - no one in RL has ever made me feel inferior about having to ff my DS, it's only on here that I have encountered unbelievable prejudice towards women who ff . There are certain posters who seem to go out of their way to make others feel bad about their feeding decisions - able to safely ridcule others through the anonymity of cyberspace .

spongebrain, when i first looked on Mumsnet, it was shortly after I had stopped trying to b'feed, there was a thread which talked about formula and referred to it as 'junk', I was completely new so didn't know any of the names, or how these threads go, and TBH I didn't even register that most of the posters were up in arms about it, all i saw was the bits that made me feel like shit. I cried and didn't look on Mumsnet for another year - something I really regret, as I struggled and failed to b'feed dd2 as well, and wish i had come on to ask for advice.

The thing is, I do keep coming on to these threads now because I think it is good to challenge the arsey comments, and have realised that there are an awful lot of women, who have had similar experiences of b'feeding to mine.

I'm that it hasn't been a help to you.

hazeyjane: way back in Feb 07 there was a thread in which we talked about buying a ticket for the breastfeeding bus and then finding yourself on the bottle feeding bus instead....and the feelings that led to.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=1364&threadid=274983#5504964

It's still there. It might help you think about things in a comforting way

Imo, To refer to formula as junk is unhelpful, and makes those women on here who could not bf or who are struggeling to bf and have to resort to formula worse than they actually feel. Obviously those who say those kind of things have had no problems bf and might be quite smug about it. Obviously breastmilk is much better than formula, but if you are not able to bf its the only available alternative.

In several years on these threads I can remember two threads where a poster referred to formula as 'junk'. Each time she was roundly jumped on, as hazeyjane says.....because people who understand that feeding is often more than just getting milk into a baby also understand that women who use formula may feel sensitive, sad and shit about it.

yes exactly, for some of us its not a choice its a must. In a perfect world every woman would be able to bf. oh tiktok are electric breastpumps good, will they make things easier and help stimulate breasts to produce milk. i am trying to prepare myself well in advance. also what are the best positions for bf, one nursery nurse at hospital suggested the rugby ball position but its seems very uncomfortable with a bigger baby. how do you kow if you have a good latch and your baby getting milk that it needs.

its helpful having you on here Tiktok. my sister in law is kinda bf but not, she expressing breastmilk as she feels uncomfortable with a baby on her breast. If i were her i would definitely just pop baby on much easier and better all this expressing. she seems to produce lots and lots of milk and her breasts always felt full and engorged whereas mine never did. is there some truth that some women produce mroe milk than others.

piglet, I'll try to answer your questions

• electric breastpumps can be a useful accessory but they are not by any means essential. If you need to express only occasionally, then hand expressing is worth trying. They certainly don't normally make bf easier - if there is a problem with the baby managing to feed direct (like being pre-term) they can ensure the mother gets the milk out, which stimulates the supply. Vast majority of bf mothers really do not need a pump, but some choose to use one for particular reasons

• nursery nurses normally have very little bf training. Rugby ball is only one position among many. Good latch should not hurt whatever the position. Baby will show by weight gain and early nappy contents and behaviour he is getting what he needs

• some women do produce (and store) more milk than others - not an issue at all, really, as someone with a low storage capacity will find she has a baby that feeds more often to get what he needs

Hope that helps

thanks tiktok for the great advice. i seemed to have good latach and appeared to be drinking but showing green stools and loosing weight which midwife was worried about. hopefully will be better prepared for nexttime.

sorry my daughter appeard to show good latch and green stools. think that the midwives and hv might be quick in suggesting formula, there was not any bf support from them though, surely if the government want to encourage bf they should pay for breastfeeding counsellors to come to the mothers homes and support them if they wish.