If you have an arsey comment about breastfeeding

[SunglassesPolarBear]

come and say it here please, let's get them all out in the open and in one place.
So far today I have seen a comment along the lines of "don't know why you bothered" to someone who was please to have reached 6 months of excl bf, and an incredibly rude and unhelpful comment on a thread started by a woman who was worried that her supply would be affected by her DH giving their 10 day old a bottle of formula. Snotty comments (whether to bfers or ffers) are NOT WELCOME on those sorts of threads, so go on, offload here.

Oh, before we start, some myths I'd like to bust:

• Improved health outcomes of bf babies are not down to social class - that has been accounted for
• People bfing past 3 weeks / 6 months / a year are not doing it just for their own sakes
• It's not only OK to bf in public "if it's done discreetly"

erm..sure more will come up

Research is information, plain and simple.

As long as we have access to all relevent information, then it is up to us to decide how much we choose to educate ourselves with and whether we use this information in our lives.

Mrs Jammi, you say that judging lasts longer if you b'feed, but surely you at least can smile inside knowing that you succeeded in feeding your baby the best that it can have.

When I have had an arsey/judgey comment about f'feeding, I feel my insides shrivel up as I worry about dd1's asthma and dd2's allergies.

Research is useful- and presenting facts in a clear concise fashion can help people make decisions they wouldn't have otherwise made- not everyone maybe, but some.

I totally agree with fabsmum btw. Before I had my kids I hadn't thought about BFing.

When I got pregnant a nice nurse at my OB-GYN started on the 'did you know that BFing brings etc etc etc' speech. I came home totally hooked and motivated to do it.

How can research bully?
If you don't want to know the facts then skim over. MNers would be up in arms if the "facts" of choosing a safe car seat or the "facts" of e numbers in their DC's food was suppressed but it's OK for bf? I really don't get that and no-one has explained it yet in any satisfactory way? Who are all these people who want to be in ignorance -0 in fact even if they go looking the facts shouldn't be there? I can't understand that mindset at all - I do like to do some research and inform myself about the things that are important to me. Sure I don't always get it right but I wouldn't be comfortable with just making a decision on blind faith or whatever.
treedelivery- what would people do with a lack of choice about bf? To me that seems as though bf would be the norm and people wouldn't know about / get the option to ff if they needed to. Not ideal, surely?

I'm going to go on a thread about car seats and tell them not to discuss it. We should all go for the one with the prettiest cover. Or that's easiest to clip into the car.
This is making me so angry!

StealthPolarPig - It is a thought I sometimes have in general. I don't believe the what you describe would be ideal. I believe in choice.

I just feel sad for those who feel the research beats them like a big stick when they are unable to perform to the ideal as defined by it.

It is more a response to the horrid negative feelings people talk about on mn and in rl. A feeling of compassion I suppose, but it is an abstract thought. I do sometimes yearn for the simpler days - but tbh I wasn't around in those times so have no idea what they were like!

That is why I feel to be a woman in these days is challenging.

Riven says:

"especially since research can be done to prove any point you want"

No, it flippin well cannot!

Honestly - what school did you go to?

I also rather resent piglet's reminder that research studies "are not always that accurate, nothing is 100% watertight. YOu have to look at the subjects, what type of subjects, any other variables that could influence your hypothesis etc."

Er, yes. Thank you for that

Treedelivery - the 'horrid negative feelings' you mention are usually felt by the women who wanted to bf, or who feel the research carries some weight but for some reason ff instead. Other women don't care about the research and don't care about whipping out a bottle whatever anyone might say. For the most part on MN the people who suddenly post lists of research results, rather than engaging in a discussion, are preaching to the converted. (I know some people ask for info and great they get it so not in every case obviously.)

I have also read comments along the lines of 'no-one can MAKE you feel guilty' several times. I know you have to be complicit to take negative feelings, such as guilt, on board, but this is nonsense really - we all agree this feeding business can be a very emotional issue and a lot of posters (and in RL) are incredibly heavy handed in their approach. And there are people who do try to make you feel small to boost their own egos and bolster their own decisions. Not just about bf of course - just in life generally. Anyone with an ounce of sensitivity would understand that a woman who is vulnerable or emotionally raw could easily be made to feel guilty. Of course someone struggling with bf is likely to feel bashed about by reading some of these threads until they get the hang of which are supportive and which are hectoring. I agree with you - I like to be informed and make decisions accordingly but sometimes the information available makes you feel you can't do the right thing even if you try and that's when people get upset.

I am getting a letdown reading this thread

If it were really possible to generate research results which suited your personal leanings, don't you think that there would be an enormous body of research indicating that formula was actually better for babies than bf? After all, formula is the one with the serious financial backing.

SJG - preaching to the converted or banging their heads against brick walls trying to argue with people who "don't believe" in the facts or put their own (invented) spin on them.
Right, am I off to suppress the facts about car seat safety, or do we all agree that is utterly ridiculous?

Does 'bumsex' class as an arsey comment about breastfeeding?

SallyJayGorce - I wish I knew what tone of voice that your post was in.
I completely realise most of the upset women here have ff when they initialy planned to bf. Often it would seem because the back up care from the services can be shocking. If I didn't realise that then there wouldn't be much hope for me would there?

I am not sure I agree the information makes people feel they can't do right for doing wrong. I think the patchy services, the way the DoH pushes certain messages [like breast is breast prescription, rather than 'here are pros and cons make your own mind up] and the implication that if things turn out different to the utopia, 'your choice' was wrong or you managed it badly - I think that makes people upset.

Pressure pressure pressure.

And if you wanted to bf but couldn't (or for as long as you would have wanted) and that part of your baby's life is over and you don't want to know the stats, fine. Pointless anyway really unless you have a specific interest. But don't try to suppress them for women who still haven't reached that stage - that's dictatorship IMO.

Re write of my first line

i completely realise that alot of upset women who are upset in realtion to feeding issues, who have had horrid experience, will have ff when they set out to bf.

My sentence was vauge. Apologies.

SPP - I am not getting the vibe from the thread that the stats should be supressed.

I am getting the vibe from reading threads in general that people find it hurtfull to hear that the thing they didn't do - for whatever reason - would have been statistically better for their child. statistically that is - I pass no comment on their choices or how good or bad it was for them or their family.

I would like to be able to find a resolution to that.

no rhubarb, that's light hearted relief
(unless there;s a link I'm missing in my innocence?)
Have you been away from MN for a while? Not seen you around
treedelivery, iswym, thanks for clarifying. A lot of the 'olden days' was about living in ignorance I suppose! I bet we'll think the same looking back in 30 years time when internet viruses have mutated and TAKEN OVER THE WORLD!

Stormingly good point there from Aranea.

You betcha if the formula companies could have rigged research, we would have stacks of it included in bounty baby bags and the like. There would be constant re-iterations of favourable statistics in their advertisements and PR.

Just wanted to vigorously agree.

good point treedelivery, and a nice way to separate the two. After all the risks of formula are just that and need to be weighed up against the benefits in each situation. If the benefits outweigh the risks then you'd be an idiot to choose otherwise!
There are posts on this thread and otherwise saying the research makes women "feel bad" and assume their children are going to grow up to be... . Which is ridiculous. One poster was told off for providing a link to research that had been requested on this thread! What should she have said? I know what you're talking about and I know where to find it but I'm not going to tell you? Patronising and ridiculous IMO!

"Ridiculous" - my word of the day . The whole thing is though, and makes me want to scream.
I agree about the formula companies, but don't expect a response on that any time soon. They do put out their own "research" of course - ff means dad can have a turn / bond with the baby. bf means you have to eat cabbage and wholemeal bread (and not ice cream out of the tub ) and must feed discreetly in public, and you will have a load of problems but don't worry as we have a nice lady at the end of the phone for you to talk to if you do, and she doesn't have an agenda, promise...

treedelivery - you make a good point. People - if they are sensible - don't want to censor the publication of research. But they don't want to be reminded of the risks of formula feeding, no matter what the reason they used formula....and stats and research remind them, and this can be hurtful for some people.

I don't think this particular circle can be squared. On mumsnet, it is dealt with, more or less, by stats and research being posted on request, and on debate/discussion threads and not on 'help me, I have a problem with my feeding' threads.

If people post to debate/discussion threads, and then come out with some sort of challenge, like 'my opinion is it doesnt make much difference whatever you do' or 'using homemade food after weaning is more important than breastfeeding' or 'my baby was formula fed and is not fat, so that proves something or other' or (my favourite today!) 'you can use research to prove anything you like' , then on a debate and discussion thread, these assertions will be challenged....debated and discussed, even

I am aware of the research surrounding the benefits of bf, but from a personal point of veiw, because I was unable to bf and had to resort to ff, I do not give it a second thought and look at the overall picture, I have a happy and healthy daughter who i do not think has been affected by my not bf. Because of the benefits of bf, i will of course try it again if another one comes along and seek support beforehand to help now that i am aware of what can go wrong.

This is quite a sensitive topic, so has to be approached accordingly with new or expectant mothers. Every opionion on here should be respected (unless rude or obcene)just because someone does not agree with you, does not make the person wrong and their view disregarded. Some opinion on here might be based on personal experiences rather than scientific research.

Yes, that's fine piglet, but do you really think the research shouldn't be mentioned? Where does that leave people who are still making up their minds or wanting to know more?

I breastfeed and eat whomeal bread... Am I doing something wrong?