Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Annabel Karmel wants people to post questions to Clare Byam- Cook - dare you!

262 replies

RubyBlueberry · 15/04/2009 19:20

Have been on AK forum for a while (twas good for baby food recipes) and today she has sent everybody messages asking to post BF questions ... to Clare Byam Cook .... DOUBLE DARE YOU!!

Look here this page

OP posts:
KingCanuteIAm · 22/04/2009 13:15

I have carefully steared clear, despite overwhelming temptation!

goldietheweatherloach · 22/04/2009 13:17

Im a nurse.

mummyfuss · 22/04/2009 13:19

Oh please - don't go down that road - I feel responsible and I had nothing to do with MN before AKers directed me here!

KingCanuteIAm · 22/04/2009 13:21

Ok Goldie, thanks.

Mummyfuss, don't worry, it is a harmless reference to a previous discussion, a bit of an "insiders" joke if you like. Sorry I can't explain more but I don't want to get in (or cause) trouble

goldietheweatherloach · 22/04/2009 13:22

I cant help myself. I dont like being preached to. I am more than capable of making an informed decision about how/when/means i feed my baby. If i require support tbh i would ask friends but if i did require more formal input i would do some research to see what approach i liked best.

KingCanuteIAm · 22/04/2009 13:25

Goldie, that is great if all woman would take the same approach then there would not really be a problem. It is just that most (or at least a lot of) people don't. IMO this is why bad advice and what have you should be challenged where possible.

mistlethrush · 22/04/2009 13:26

I'm a 'professional' too! I'm a town planner although I don't find that this empowers me to offer any help apart from my own personal experience in terms of bf

pingviner · 22/04/2009 13:56

I think my objection is to 'gurus' and 'celebrity' advisers and talking heads in general being wheeled out for advice, especially as regards health and science issues- they rarely present the true nuances and complexities of issues, thet are in no way accountable, and they are normally trying to promote themselves and a product. But I suppose real evidence based argument and considered opinion doesnt really work with the way media and 'lifestyle' type shows etc try and present things.

people get advice from all sorts of places, some good, some bad and have to analyse and choose what to do themselves- so as tictok says, the pressure should be on anyone proporting to give official advice, or be in any sense an expert have real qualifications, testable evidence and expertise and have some method of accountability, and have humility enough to admit to and learn from problems and mistakes

I think a lot of 'experts' rather cynically exploit vulnerable groups - ill people, first time parents, those struggling with BF, those with little confidence-
theres a cult of the expert, with easy answers, dont trust your own judgement, do it this way, buy this product, what!? my methods didnt work for you? are you sure you did it properly? maybe you didnt believe enough, well its your fault, my methods are foolproof you are just a 'duff milker' or some such method of blame...

this goes for all acronymed people mentioned on these threads and a fair few others (just so im not seen as either shy of a fight or predjudiced)

sorry about complete rant- (I feel strongly about this)and poor spelling, lack of caps etc but with a sleeping baby on one arm and a danish keyboard something has to give

coochicoo · 22/04/2009 14:12

I think the best kind of 'expert' is one who admits that they may not know it all, but isn't afraid to direct people to other sources who may be able to help. Nor do they feel threatened by the other agencies.

CBC has publicly stated that BFC are often the 'wrong sort of people'. Why? Because they have to have bf for at least 6 months to train and therefore they are people who have had no problems. What?? If she really was such an expert she wouldn't feel the need to undermine other support networks. Altough I suppose if she admitted that these other organisations were invaluable for bf support she may well do herself out of a job. What with BFCs being volunteers and her charging upwards of £120 for advice...

tiktok · 22/04/2009 14:23

Yes, I saw she said that, coochicoo....it's so unfair. Many, many breastfeeding counsellors have had problems - some have bottle fed from the start, some have mixed fed, some have breastfed for a short time only, with other children. NCT (and, I think, the other organisations) ask for one experience that has lasted to at least 6 mths (with or without problems) because in the sort of mother-to-mother support we offer, and the training we go through, this 'embodied' experience of breastfeeding through the different changes in those first 6 mths, is valued and celebrated.

This doesn't mean other people without this experience can't also support and help bf mothers - it's just that the sort of support and help we offer has a particular style where this experience matters.

Childless women, even men, can support and help breastfeeding mothers. There are many ways to be a breastfeeding supporter.

I don't like it when people say 'oh, midwife X or HV Y cant be any good at bf support as she hasn't had children'. She can't be a breastfeeding counsellor, but she can still be a brilliant supporter of bf.

It's not your obstetric (or feeding) history that matters, but your outlook and attitude and your knowledge.

CBC manages to antagonise people without trying very hard, I think

MiniMarmite · 22/04/2009 19:10

pingviner, coochicoo and tiktok - despite my previous comments (about using books written by these people in conjunction with other literature and advice) I couldn't agree more.

Celebrity seems to influence far more than research, experience or qualifications in many aspects of people's lives these days.

goldietheweatherloach · 22/04/2009 20:32

fair points.

i think its good to debate and challenge.

mummypoohs · 22/04/2009 21:56

I followed her methods, as did several friends and it worked a treat, far better than what our local PCT offered, she rocks!!

goldietheweatherloach · 22/04/2009 22:05

I know in my work capacity alot of new mums i see highly rate CBC.

hanaflower · 22/04/2009 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Babieseverywhere · 22/04/2009 22:32

I would be interested in speaking to mothers who after speaking to Claire have been labelled as 'Duff Milkers' and see how they judge her support and advice.

moondog · 22/04/2009 22:46

Interesting thread.
If you are indeed a 'professional' Goldie, then you of all people should understand the need for an industry to be regulated and for methods and advice that are backed up by properly conducted research and knowledge of the wat the body works to be used.

Did they not make that clear to you in your nursing training?

You seem to think it's just fine to let anyone publish anything as long as we are all nice and kind to each other.
That aint good enough. Not for me, not for my kids, not for other women and there kids.

Who is this one then? Am I getting confused with Clare Verity? Was she that numpty that advocating avoiding eye contact??

Jesus....

moondog · 22/04/2009 22:47

their

TBM · 22/04/2009 22:53

Is lotsofkids new and a visitor from another site per chance? She doesn't seem to know MN at all!

Samantha28 · 22/04/2009 23:04

hi goldietheweatherloach and mummypoohs and welcome to mumsnet

mistlethrush · 22/04/2009 23:05

There are a few names I've not seen before and who seem to have a very short history...

Quite clearly, for some people her methods will work - at least in part. But then lots of the people that she discounts as useless are also helping people - whatever she says. And most of them don't charge for it either.

Samantha28 · 22/04/2009 23:05

oh sorry lotsofkids, I didn't mean to miss you out - hi to you too

KingCanuteIAm · 22/04/2009 23:10

Goldie, the thing is (well one of the things anyway), people for whom it has worked are obviously going to rate it. The test, IMO, is talking to those whom it has failed. For a start a number of those will have been given the impression that it is their fault in some way, that they did not do it properly or follow all of the instructions or other such twaddle. More of them will have been left with the impression that they just could not do it, their milk was not good enough, there was not enough of it, their baby was too big/hungry/small and so on.

People who are left with these kind of impressions would not think to complain that the method or advice failed them.

The only ones who will raise queries are those who, not only did not get the help they needed, but also found out, somehow, that the reasons they were given for that are not true for most women.

These numbers are reduced again because many of those women will not do anything about it, they will accept it and move on (which is fair enough). The upshot is that, even though an expert may fail many people, only a few will actually do something about it and they can often be written off as extremists or something!

TBM · 22/04/2009 23:15

Not the only one either I see.

TikTok, I say something similar about the woman at the PCT who trained me but she had an attitude of she's right and we're wrong. "It never feels like that" when we, who have breastfed, know that yes it can feel like that. If someone who hasn't breastfed is willing to accept that there's some bits of it that they can't know then I don't see a problem with them supporting breastfeeding. It would be like a male MW or obstetrician telling a labouring woman what labour feels like and telling her it's not how it feels to her.

KingCanuteIAm · 22/04/2009 23:19

The huns are coming! (well, here really, but that doesn't sound as good)

Swipe left for the next trending thread