Annabel Karmel wants people to post questions to Clare Byam- Cook - dare you!

[RubyBlueberry]

Have been on AK forum for a while (twas good for baby food recipes) and today she has sent everybody messages asking to post BF questions ... to Clare Byam Cook .... DOUBLE DARE YOU!!

Look here this page

I don't understand the argument they keep sprouting that "if you don't like it don't read it"....what about "if something is factually incorrect and liable to misinform women at a difficult time of their life don't write/post it"

Just because it's the good old anonymous internet doesn?t mean we all don't have some responsibility for what we post.

I was just thinking, maybe these ?gurus? should come with a traffic light system, like with food. Because some of it isn?t bad (so needs a green) and some of it is rubbish (so would get a red) and some is hit and miss (so needs an orange). Put them all together and you usually get an overall red, which is why a lot of people are opposed to it, but there are some greens that can be taken out of it and some oranges work for some people.

When I was first pregnant I got the GF book free with a magazine and I thought it made sense. When I actually had a real baby I quickly abandoned any thoughts of following any of her advice!

I think part of CBC?s popularity is that she charges so much. She must know what she?s talking about, right?

Elkiedee, even though Gill Rapley has a DVD and a book it is nothing that isn?t elsewhere and I?m sure she would say the same. The DVD was made for HCPs originally and I think she wrote the book for the people who need a book when following something. I?m sure there are lots of people who bought it for relatives more than themselves The thing that makes me cross with AK is she herself says that the puree stage is only needed for two weeks, so why the heck is she making so much money on products that she is saying you only need for two weeks?

Does anyone else think it would be worrying if a ?BFC? only helped one mum to breastfeed longer than she would have done?

I find it interesting that a mother who has breastfed before would be put off by a thread on a forum. Sounds like someone who wasn?t that thrilled at the idea of it in the first place!

Fussy, you are very welcome to join us here your other posts sound like you?ll fit in well!

I think I should probably also point out that the quote I quoted was her answering a question from a mum who's returning to work and her baby wouldn't take a bottle - not a newborn. Still a pretty shocking thing to be saying to a mother you're supposed to be supporting though - in my humble opinion of course

I'm feeling quite frustrated though as I can't get back on to read any further posts.

Thanks for the welcome - I may pop in from time to time if you don't mind so thank you I will introduce myself properly at some stage but for the moment I think it's probably best if I retain some anonymity

The AK site still down..

Would be good to see you Mummyfuss, we welcome all robust types here

Warm welcome, mummyfuss

Only skimmed this thread, am adding it to my threads I'm on so can read tomorrow, but that woman!

The one thing that stuck in my throat about CBC was when I watched her on This Morning, basically sneering at a woman whose sister breastfed her baby during illness (problem?), continued to sneer at cross-feeding and later claimed that 'breastfeeding support' wasn't needed okayyyyyy

It's been said before (actually a similar thread with Bounty and weaning) that as much as we take it out of NM they're actually not that bad (especially compared to some ) I've just found a really good article over there on BLW but then I knew they were good about it as I've posted their statement from the forum on it a few times.

Good evening

Yeah, elkidie, I spotted you on 'Who is online'

This really seems to have kicked off. I'm going to view it as an opportunity to chat to more mums and hope everything can stay amicable, somehow...

Would be nice if y'all could come out of hiding on AK and match up your pseudonyms iykwim!

I saw that interview with her too, Stretch. This Morning also did a piece about natural term breastfeeding during which CBC branded bf beyond 6 months as 'unnecessary'.

They draft her in whenever they do anything about bf and she always seems to argue the case against it...

I have to say that it really saddens me to see the sorry state of our world where people are so insecure that they find the need to belittle other people and make fun of other people instead of posting their own views in a friendly manner and trying to change things in a positive way and without attacking others.

I take it that all those criticising and being nasty are perfect? I think not and I really think that people in glass houses should not throw stones. So until we are all perfect people (which will never happen), I really wish that we could all behave civilly and in a manner that we each would want to be treated.

Just remember if you show someone else kindness and give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, one day when you are in the need of kindness and of someone giving you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you will be on the receiving end.

Just some food for thought.

I agree, lotsofkids. I find it sad (and a bit annoying!) when Clare Byam Cook belittles other breastfeeding support, and broadcasts misleading information about what people experience from them.

Is that what you meant?

No I didn't and I think you know that.

I think that even if you disagree with her, you can still say I personally do not like her methods or advice. I have found so & so's advice more helpful and here is why. Not everything in this world has to be nasty and confrontational. The world would be a nicer plazce for our kids to live if we all learned to be more tolerant and feel less threatened by what other people say.

You can gain so much more by saying things with love than in anger.

lotsofkids.....I agree again

But why direct your comments to posters here? The angry stuff and the feeling threatened stuff comes (mostly) from the regular AK posters, doesn't it?

The lack of tolerance is shown by CBC in the way she belittles the support from other sources and misrepresents it.

lotsofkids, the thing is, you can do that if the advice is being given to you and you are strong enough to know better etc. However when the miss-information is being handed out in the way this is, ie to mass audiences on major (respected) shows/forums etc then it is a little harder to challenge it by being nice and still be taken seriously.

CBC is not "nice" about other bf support groups, she is not "nice" about other methods than her own. She regularly puts people down and seems to, often, undermine bf as a whole. You may not like it but people do tend to fight fire with fire. As it is I have not seen any rude, personal comments about her or anything other than people objecting to her advice and practices, which we are allowed to do!

Ahh, has it taken off on the other forum then? I was thinking you were meaning here... I have not looked since the thread was split.

I don't know anything about CBC and am really not interested in knowing about her cause I am not looking for information at this point. However, two rights don't make a wrong. If you do think she belittles, there is no reason for you to "stoop" to her level and do the same. All that is , is mudslinging. There are positive ways to get out information you deem correct.

I also don't agree most of the angry stuff on here is from Ak posters. Forgetting about some of the comments made on here about Ak posters, the whole tone of the posts on here are very righteous and condescending sounding. Don't know if people mean for them to come out sounding like that are not. Being passionate about something, sometimes makes people blind to what they sound like. All I want to see is people being nice and civil to each other in this world. I really wish people would treat others, even the ones they disagree with, the same way they would like to be treated by someone who disagrees with them. Our kids would then be growing up in a much better world.

I am intrigued to know why you feel that this thread is the one that people need telling this on? It is not the most angry or condecending thread on here by a long way so why pick this one for you attentions?

I am sure you would like the world to be that way, but it is often not and, in general this thread has been extremely well behaved!

I think bf is a very sensitive subject with a lot of implications for women, both physically and mentally-for good and bad.

I was just reading this and if I was a mum with less experience and less confidence, the tone of the comments (about CBC-whether they are correct or incorrect) would just confuse me more. When people are passionate about topics, they tend to forget how they can "sound" to people who are still trying to put together their own opinion on the topic (for instance of BF).

Like I said earlier, I think you could bring so many more women over to your way of thinking about bf and how great it is, with a more delicate approach. I am assuming that if you feel strongly about something and are passionate about it, that you want as many people as you can to share that joy with you. That is done better by nicer, calmer, less heated "sounding" explanantions. More people who are on the "fence" would rather "join, be part of" something that is calm, nice sounding, than something that is run like a heated argument that tries to prove their points of views by putting someone else down.

A simple, we personally don't agree with CBC methods. We find that in this case, thisis better. Babies need _.

Are you understanding what I am trying to say? I am just trying to point out that if the point of trying to disprove CBC advice is really to get more mums to bf succesfully, then I think you are going about it in the wrong way. The mums that agree with you, will always have agreed with you, but mums who are unsure-may be put off by the way the discussions about bf are being handled. That's all.

I'm mystified, lotsofkids. I think most of the condescending, confrontational stuff is on the AK forum, from AK regulars.

This thread - this one here, the mumsnet one - is milder.

I agree that when ideas and approaches are disagreed with, 'ad hominem' personal attacks are normally unnecessary because the ideas and the approaches are the issues to, um, take issue with

That seems to me to be, broadly, what has has happened here (on mumsnet).

I think what you are objecting to is the way some non-regulars on the AK forums have challenged complacency and acceptance, have asked questions about the quality of help and advice on offer, and that has ruffled feathers.

I think ruffling feathers and challenging complacency is a good thing for the world - keeping silent out of politeness is a tactic that allows bad things to happen!

But Lotsofkids, this isn't a thread which aims to help mothers who are hoping to bf, or who are experiencing problems with bf - if you look there are lots of those around, and all of those have a wealth of positive, helpful comments, some from people with professional experience, and some from other mothers who feel able to share what has worked for or helped them.

Perhaps you could go and look at some of those and potentially help there? This was a thread specifically about a request on another forum for questions to CB - and has been treated as such.

TBH Lotsofkids, if your point about confusing parents is true, then that may be a good thing. Given that CBC is put out there as being an expert, people will think she is right. In her discussions, interviews and so on she slates other practices so anyone who is a bit nervous is likely to go with what she is saying because it is backed by This Morning, Annabelle Karmel et al. However, following her advice they may run into trouble and end up not feeding as long or as well as they would have liked to.

If a discussion like this is enough to "confuse" a person so they go off and look into the whole thing a bit more deeply and gather more information or a different POV then that could be a good thing.

As for proving their POV by putting people down, that is what CBC is often guilty of. We are disagreeing with her methods and advice, not putting her down.

Its a shame that people dont actually read other peoples points before replying with the same quotes/links...

Surely everyone is entitled to listen to who they like, they may not agree with every aspect of CBCs approaches/opinions but maybe one or two points work for them? is that so wrong?