Tiktok are you there? Talk me down from the edge..

[Tinkerisdead]

I cant do a link (im sobbin my heart out and now is not the first time to try) After yesterday where i posted to say my DD had only put on 2oz in 5 weeks and HV had sent me to GP..

Have been to GP who rechecked charts and she has gone from 50th centile to 2nd. She discussed my feelings on formula and early weaning and respected my views but basically told me that DD is nowhere near where she should be, that a plateau of weigt to that extent is not normal. She has advised that I feed her as normal at night but give her formula as well. I raised the issue that surely thats milk that DD will not then seek from me in the night.

Ive come away sobbing, everything ive read says feed feed feed. But I cant get DD to stay on, she feeds around 12 minutes each boob and i even revisit each one afterwards to ensure im emptied. She already feeds every 2 hours and pumping gives me nothing.

Ive read kellymom, ive called la leche, ive called the ABM. I even called my indie midwife. Everyone says feed her more, but I cant make her feed anymore than she is, she just turns away.

I feel like i cant afford to ignore the advice as I feel like ive starved my baby but my head says how can a breast milk substitite be the answer? Please please can someone advise me, im devastated that I dont seem to have done a good enough job.

How are things DW? I hope you are feeling a bit more reassured and confident about things today. It really does sound like you are doing a fab job

I thought fenugreek was more of a curry smell than maple syrup though

Hi, I read this thread slightly late. Just want to offer my support, and to say I'm so glad you've got such good advice & that things seem to be going better.

Here's a little story: my niece (now a 6 year old) was born premature; for at least the first 2 years she was way BELOW the charts, never seeming to catch up. She was ff from the start, but that made no difference whatsoever. She simply didn't have a good appetite. Everyone was anxious about it, but her paediatrician found her absolutely healthy in all measurements. A couple of years later they all just accepted she didn't have a great appetite & was a thin girl, and now that she's 6 she's actually a beautiful, fairly thin girl (who btw has developed a better appetite).

hi all, thought it only fair to do update!
i've had a weekend of in law hell so couldnt get online.

So, I spent all friday feeding and pumping. Followed tip of feeding every 3 hrs and pumping between. In the past ive struggled to get 1oz from both boobs. By third session of pumping i was pulling 1.5oz. the feeds with DD were so much longer.

I now realise that where before i couldnt keep her on, she was frustrated. She is now feeding a good 20 mins and not whining between gulps or when she comes off.

Thanks to my medela swing i pumped whilst out and about (in the privacy of the car) kept a coolbag for the milk. Ate oats and taking fenugreek. There is a massive difference in feeding style now and a much more contented, more playful dd. Shes taking the expressed milk as a top up in the evening.

I am due back to gp in 3 weeks but i may go for a weighing at 10 days to see whether its making a difference. If not I'm gonna ask for paed referral when i see the GP.

I had some fab advice and I feel so much better having a plan of action knowing I've done all I can to persevere and not "hit the bottle" thank you

yay!!

Yay DW

Sounds like things are going in the right direction.

Having her weighed prior to your docs visit will be helpful in planning what you'll say to the GP, but can I offer a small tip......."forget" your red book, so the HV doing the weigh in doesn't harangue you about the formula top ups.....so you can effectively weigh and run

Oh I'm so thrilled!! That's lovely to hear!! Isn't it nice when they settle in and feed for a good long time? [lovely contented baby and mummy emoticon]

Sorry about your in-law hell... ewwww. The last thing you need right now.

Have you tried drinking some Guinness? It really does boost your supply. And as far as I remember the alcohol content is only 3.5% so not very potent and recent research has shown that between 0 and 10 % of consumed alcohol passes through in breastmilk. So no worries on getting DD intoxicated [Not A Good Thing emoticon]

Quick hijack - Maria - how are you??? How is the dental work progressing? (It's Jacksmama, I named changed for a funny thread and DS seemed to think he needed act on the name change so I'm keeping it for a few days as he's been on me constantly.) xxx

That's great TDW!
I have been on my Medela swing pretty constantly too and can tell supply is getting a bit better - fingers crossed I have your results soon, but HV says doc still wants paed referral. Am going to see doc on Weds to see if there is anything else I can do.
TikTok - thanks for link to charts, I am going to plot ds on and see how it looks...

Great news! It seems you increased your milk supply... that's really good news and will definitely help you & your baby have an easier feeding experience To be honest, I think you were already fine (baby was healthy etc) but the way things are going now it does sound easier!!

(hijacking thread!) MilkMonstersMummy: Good to hear from you! Thanks for asking after me I'm much better. Dental work still going on actually (might even be a while longer) but it's more a process now, something practical to do. The accident itself feels in the past now (although I still remember it with a shudder). My bf days seem to be almost over, unfortunately, DS is now 8 & a half months, and for various reasons he (and I) seem to be gradually cutting down on the feeding It might be weeks or even days. Very sad & emotiona;, but almost feels right somehow (for us), if that makes sense.
And how are you?

(BTW the medela swing was what did it for me too, when I had issues with supply).

Second the poster who recommended Guinness (only 1 a night mind!!)..supposed to do wonders for supply and is a great source of iron too (just in case you are anaemic sa I was)...my mum is Irish and it was given to women ante and post natally over there!!!

Well done you!!!!

Not an expert, but a few ideas - hope they help....

• would definitely follow PBMs advice and stick to one boob until it's empty to make sure DD is getting all the fatty hind milk after the thirst quenching foremilk. Check boob is empty by squeezing the areola and seeing if there is any milk left. When empty, offer second boob. Start with second boob at next feed.
• is the baby winding well? when my ds starts being restless at the boob, he usually needs winding or a poo! once he's sorted out his gastric issues, he normally goes back on again
• is he sleepy? feed DD with just a nappy on and pop DD on her play mat when her eyes get drowsy, she'll miss your snuggly body and wake up
• express between 7-2 to stimulate your milk supply and give you some spare milk to offer rather than formula - express at about 9.30 and empty both boobs.
• help to keep your milk supply high - lots and lots of water, regular eating especially protein, STOP STRESSING (easier said than done ;-( and express any milk left in the first boob you offer (save the second boob for the next feed)
• if you're struggling to get any milk when expressing, really try to relax, watch your baby and then massage your breasts and apply warm flannels. you can feel where the breast is harder and full of milk, so if you massage there, you should release more milk

And formula isn't the worst thing in the world - DP failed to thrive and nearly died until he was on formula. He's now exceedingly tall, never suffers from infections and smart as hell. Formula can only have got better over the last 30 years and I'm sure your DD will be absolutely fine if you have to use it. I'm glad he managed to stick around to marry me!

FINGERS MEGA CROSSED for you, but if you've got a happy and alert baby - you're doing really well. Sometimes they take things at their own pace. Try to see a paed. Don't let the worry make you forget to enjoy time with your baby.

Joined late. Just seen all is now going brilliantly - FANTASTIC!

Been lurking and just wanted to add my best wishes and congrats on your boosted supply. DS plateaued at 8 weeks and the pressure from the HVs was horrid despite him being happy and alert. You have my every sympathy, hang in there.

Great things are going well

becaroo - iron in Guiness? I think not...are you sure? Stout used to be a folk remedy for bf, but there's no good evidence it does any good. It won't harm though

poulet - the advice to 'stick to one side until it's empty' is really wrong, though, sorry - it reduces supply and the idea that it's better because the baby gets creamier milk is a red herring. Fiddling about trying to see if there is any left is pointless, too....there will always be milk remaining. No one needs to express after feeding unless they want to or unless they have a serious problem.

Water and extra food will make no difference to supply and protein is not an issue.

Sorry to diss your post but there really is a lot of misleading stuff in it, and mothers need all the good info they can get!

great news DW!

And apologies for what must seem like a rude contradiction, Poulet, but it's important to correct a couple of your points for the benefit of others reading the thread;

sticking to one boob 'until it's empty' is actually not a good idea if you want to increase supply. (A breast never really empties) It can in fact reduce your milk supply by reducing the volume of milk intake by the baby. The foremilk / hindmilk thing is rather a red herring - there is only one type of milk produced, and the fat content of the milk in each feed very much depends upon how frequently you feed. What matters more is increasing volume transferred. Switch nursing is a recommended technique to increase supply, by switching from side to side, several times each feed when the baby's feeding slows down from active sucking.

Also, whilst it's good to look after yourself, it's important to know that your supply is unaffected by stress and your diet. Whether you drink extra water or eat extra protein won't make a difference. You'd have to be severely dehydrated or malnourished to see a difference.

I'm pointing this out so that any stressed mums who may be neglecting themselves a little don't worry uneccessarily that they are affecting their milk as well.

tiktok clearly types faster than I do...

Hi, just wanted to agree with the others that what Poulet says doesn't seem to make much of a difference (e.g. good diet, stressing, emptying one breast completely etc).

One of my favourite subjects is disagreeing with people who attribute this or that to stress. So indulge me for a minute So: women are advised to 'stop stressing' in early pregnancy to prevent miscarriage (!!) They are also frequently advised to stop stressing during IVF treatment in order to increase their chances. (Infertility in general is often attributed- wrongly- to stress, which in itself is a notoriously vague concept). And we also see, in the breastfeeding threads, advise having to do with stress decreasing supply etc.

Well. We should all be happy to know that the body is far more resilient & able to withstand minor (or even major) psychic disturbances, and breastfeeding or giving birth or getting pregnant or IVF working or whatever depend on various factors, stress probably being one of the least important.

I'm not an expert. But from the 8 months that I've been bf I've learnt that when I breastfeed regularly (and also express) milk supply goes up. When I breastfeed less- or decrease expressing-, milk goes down. That simple.

(Stress could though prevent bf from going well for one reason: because of tiredness, women decide to stop bf earlier than they would if they were getting better support, more sleep etc. But that's not to say stress is actually directly decreasing supply; it's just that it's making women sometimes less happy with their bf experience, which is why more support is needed, plus more understanding of the mechanics of bf).

Yep - all you say about stress is spot on, Maria. We would never have survived as a human race if stress had affected the physiological ability to breastfeed. For most of human existence just surviving and caring for the next generation has been stressful and fear-producing. Fortunately, our bodies cope with that just fine, and basic physiological functioning, for the most part, has become able to continue - so we can move, breathe, our blood circulates, and so on, despite being stressed.

Well exactly tiktok Also, the human race would not have survived if conception of babies (and then, as you say, their feeding) depended on an 'ideal', calm, stress-free existence.

Life is stressful. The body can take it

Hi Maria - I'm so glad you and your teeth are doing well. Things are good in my corner of the world. Finally had my surgery to get ladybits repaired in Feb - all good now, yay!

(final hijacking!) Jackbunnysmama- glad to hear about the operation! Ugh, I've heard (from friends) about these kinds of problems, they're really annoying & difficult, glad to hear it's over & done with in your case!