Tiktok are you there? Talk me down from the edge..

[Tinkerisdead]

I cant do a link (im sobbin my heart out and now is not the first time to try) After yesterday where i posted to say my DD had only put on 2oz in 5 weeks and HV had sent me to GP..

Have been to GP who rechecked charts and she has gone from 50th centile to 2nd. She discussed my feelings on formula and early weaning and respected my views but basically told me that DD is nowhere near where she should be, that a plateau of weigt to that extent is not normal. She has advised that I feed her as normal at night but give her formula as well. I raised the issue that surely thats milk that DD will not then seek from me in the night.

Ive come away sobbing, everything ive read says feed feed feed. But I cant get DD to stay on, she feeds around 12 minutes each boob and i even revisit each one afterwards to ensure im emptied. She already feeds every 2 hours and pumping gives me nothing.

Ive read kellymom, ive called la leche, ive called the ABM. I even called my indie midwife. Everyone says feed her more, but I cant make her feed anymore than she is, she just turns away.

I feel like i cant afford to ignore the advice as I feel like ive starved my baby but my head says how can a breast milk substitite be the answer? Please please can someone advise me, im devastated that I dont seem to have done a good enough job.

Iliketomoveit I know you don't get foremilk every time you swap, Thedocswife has said she swaps after 12 mins I was just suggesting that maybe staying on the same side for longer

Agree don't panic. Look at your child who is presumably having a rare old time lording it up on the boob [how my dd wishes she had that much access to me ].

No one and nothing has kept her well except your milk. Thats not going to change in the time it takes you to deal with this.

you need tiktok.....
will start a thread for her

c'mon TikTok!!

On the other hand you could see expressing as a sterilising and frustrating faff which you don;t need when you're feeding as often as you do and could be cuddling your baby or relaxing without her!
You are doing really well. I agree with whoever said you shouldn't just ignore professional advice, but all the signs apart from weight gain show that your baby is very healthy and happy. That to me would be a huge sign that maybe nothing at all is wrong, and your baby is just meant to be small.
(I say that as the mother of a skinny little thing )

Hi mate, not much practical advice I'm afraid but just read this and hope that you are OK. You must be so exhausted! If the GP wasn't worried about anything else other than the weight and you have no concerns then try not to worry about chasing numbers as others have said. Whatever you do don't feel bad, you've done an amazing job to exclusively BF for so long and to be so determined to carry on. It would be lovely to see you tomorrow if you are up to the new baby group.

I really feel for you the OP; I am also a firm believer that breast milk is the best for a baby. I just wanted to say that I had a terrible time trying to breastfeed my DS1. At the time I felt I had failed because I had to top up his feeds with formula. I must confess that I had to do it for my sanity and for the sake of my husband's - I got to the point where I became very low emotionally, ill physically and completely and utterly exhausted.

Looking back, I do regret that I didn't breastfeed for very long but both my sons are now beautiful, intelligent children and I know that I did my best for them. I firmly believe that a mother can do no more than her best - we are only human after all!

just a link while i am looking fir moree

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/585554-callum-has-been-discharged-from-the-hospital?f m=11946877#11946877

DC4 was born on the 90+ centile, and dropped down to the 25th (she was two weeks late). HV gave me a really hard time and in the end refused to help me if I didn't take her advice and give LO formula.

Luckily I had a great, very pro-bf GP. We came up with a plan of action which did the trick. I expressed after each feed and used this to top up in the evening. I kept my pump in the fridge with the lid on so didn't arse around with sterilising each time. Took a few weeks, but LO stuck to the 25th line.

My GP still sent me to the Paediatrician at the hospital, (her works were "as a mother I know she is fine, as a Doctor I have to follow proceedure"). Paed gave her a once over and declared her fine, and told me to stop weighing her.

My only regret was trying to do the right thing and getting her weighed regularly. I only did it to try not slack off fourth time round.

Look for the 'little acorns' thread. Loads of help, support and advice.

I did what Sazzles said - fed DS on one boob and expressed on the other to store up a supply for when I went back to work. Man, did I ever get more milk expressed when he was feeding on the other side!! It really works.
And as for beer... my milk was slow to come in so on the advice of a hospital nurse, DH made me drink 2 cans of Guinness, and I woke up with porn star boobs the next day. I still drink a Guinness when I've not eaten as well as I should or been run ragged and my supply seems a bit low. Works every time. And tastes a hell of a lot better than bloody curry tea... why couldn't you just eat a curry instead?

.....I am getting cross about this you know! (Becaroo starts tapping foot)

When I first read your OP (albeit hastily) I assumed the HV and GP had a concerns re: your dd's health.....from what you have said since that doesnt appear to be the case.

So, to recap, she is pooing, weeing, happy and alert, exceeding her milestones and feeding well? She has gained just over 3 lbs since birth 18 weeks ago which is not much, but is not losing weight? You are happy to keep feeding her as you are til weaning at 26 weeks (or whenever)?

I have a plan......

Go back to your GP. Tell him/her that you appreciate their concern and that bearing that concern in mind, can you have a paed referral please before taking any drastic steps? They can do bloods and any other tests they think neccessary. When the results are back, and your dd is certified happy but small, tell them to feck off.

Enjoy your dd x

treedelivery the answer to your question: "Because really what would they do if you were ffing and in this scenario?" is sadly, not much. My poor tiny ds1 had ng tubes stuffed up his nose and ff from 4 days old. He was jaundiced and small and had a strep infection in his blood they didnt pick up til he was 6 weeks old (by which time he was quite ill). Have very unhappy memories of that time.

I had a foot starting to twitch too, but I don't really know enough to go into full tapping iyswim?

thedoctorswife, 50th centile isn't a target ffs, what would they do if she was over it, suggest you stop feeding her or maybe lop a leg off to get her weight down?!

i too have been there. it seems neverending at the time, but really you are probably just looking at a weight gain plateau and all will be fine in a few weeks.

doc not willing to examine her doesn't make any sense if they are really worried about her - worried about covering own backs more like by saying 'well we told her to top up'.

i often see tiktok posting around 8am, or later in the evening.

...oh, and also (although I dont want to disuade you if that is what you have decided to try) formula top ups arent a magic cure all. What I mean is, dont assume that your dd will take a 8oz bottle of formula...she may not and it would make you even more distressed. My ds1 did not thrive on bottle or breast tbh Felt a failure twice over

I have a friend I met through a baby massage class and her dd is tiny....she had been advised to top up and under pressure from family had tried, but her dd would not take it. She weaned her at 19 weeks and she eating loads and is slowly climbing the centiles....my point being formula is not neccessarily the best thing is a baby is not drinking much...they probably wont drink much formula either.

xx

I can't help, but can offer support - my ds was born at 7lb 15oz and till he was 12 weeks he was on the 50th centile line, but in the last 10 weeks he has gained 12oz in total (he'll be 23 weeks on Friday). He has horrendous eczema which has been causing problems and that, combined with the lack of weight gain made me demand a paediatrician's appt from my GP (he didn't suggest it). DS is now on stronger creams and is much more comfy in himself, but the paediatrician said that as long as we keep getting the wet nappies (6-8 a day when using disposables) we must not wean until 26 weeks because of the risk of allergies.

So you aren't alone, I hate going for weigh ins, but at least now I've also got a weekly check up with the paediatrician I can worry less.... I would suggest demanding an urgent referral (we had an appt within 5 days of demanding asking). In the meantime I suppose you could go see a bf counsellor to confirm that feeding is ok? They may have some other suggestions as well, which might be useful (and if they don't suggest top ups then that would at least give you some more ammunition when speaking to your GP/HV!)

I hope that things pick up soon, its not really so long till you'll be weaning, but I know it seems like forever at the time.

just wondered have you tried breast compression at all when feeding - i did this with ds2 when he was newborn and i was being 'forced' to get him weighed every 2 days. It did seem to help - i think i read about it on kellymom and watched a video.

Good luck - sounds like you're doing a fab job.

Hi There TDW just to say my DD1 had different weight issues than yours (very slow weight gain and green nappies - my DD was obviously not feeding well enough). This was at 6 weeks when I thought I'd got BF cracked!
I realised after much upset and watching the www.drjacknewman.com videos that she wasn't feeding very effectively. The videos show you how to check for swallowing of milk and not just sucking. I watched then for about 2 hours straight. At the next feed I re-adjusted the latch and hey presto her feeding improved. I know it's not your issue but it may be worth a quick check.
PS My DD was 50th and dropped to 4th. She ended up about on the 20th.

Hello doctors wife,
We had similar worries at similar age. Agree that pepole on forum can't see your baby and also that doctor may not be so booby friendly. Have you considered seeing your local feeding coodinator. I think most PCT have them. These seem to be mega trained midwives who a mega pro boobies who could see your baby and refer as they think neccesary. If you call your HV / midwife team they should be able to get one for you.

We did this. I weighed her twice a week but in friendly breast feeding support group setting rather than at scarey doctors. Had early year practitioner, feeding coordinator and, midwife and loads of peer supporters helping me check on dd.

Also they watched me feed, asked me lots about family history etc and all with a nice cup of tea!

P.S dd fell from 50th to 2nd but got taller.... she lost a bit more weight but then was awake more in the day. She has been considered 'normal' since then and we fed till 18 months.

Good luck

Just wondering at the poster who said that it wouldn't be long now before TheDoctorsWife would be weaning... surely it would be better for TDW to continue breastfeeding as long as possible? (If she wants to, that is.) Breastmilk would be nutritionally superior to anything that a 6-month-old baby could possibly manage to eat, so wouldn't weaning increase the risk that baby's weight gain would slow even more?
Having said that, if baby's happy and alert and has wet and pooey nappies (as TDW has said she does) then, IMO, the centile charts aren't as important. As someone else said, some babies have to be on the bottom.

Hi TDW - am sympathising with you on this one - ds got weighed today (purely because clinic was on as I came out from his jabs - should have timed it better!) and HV has told me she wants to refer.
He was born at 9lb 8oz and was 11lb 8oz today - so only gained 2 lb in 16 weeks and drifted from 91st to 2nd centile.
Luckily I have previously faced same thing with dd - she drifted from 91st to 0.2nd and then ended up around the 9th and she is fine.
ds very alert and lots of nappies too. I am also feeding around every 3 hours - the most he sleeps is from 10pm-3am.
You could try expressing before you go to bed, 7-2 is a fairly long time to go between feeds and the hormones kick in more at night so this might up your supply.
Anyway - will be thinking of you - feel free to chant along with me - "my milk is nurturing my baby, my baby is gaining weight, my baby is happy"

Doctorswife, I just wanted to send a little message of support. My ds2 only gained about 3oz I think from 16-23 weeks and dropped to the 0.4th centile. He is now 10 months and still tiny (16lb 9 and in age 3-6 month clothes), but on the other hand is meeting his milestones, starting to walk etc but moves so much that the paed's judgement was we would never get much weight on him. Get her checked over by the paed to rule out any medical problems which need to be addressed, but please don't let it ruin your enjoyment of your dd.

Ekka I saw your post and wondered whether your ds has had a skin prick test for cows milk allergy? Maybe I'm just jumping to the wrong conclusion, but if your ds is exclusively BF has eczema and has poor weight gain it does sound similar to my ds2 and in our case, the poor weight gain (and eczema) was later found to be due to milk allergy and he was reacting to milk in my diet. We are now both completely dairy free and his skin has completely cleared up.

Hmmm, just checked ds1's charts.

Born 10lbs 12oz - on 99.6th centile.

By 36 weeks he was on the 25th centile. Exclusively bf until week 26 then weaned gradually onto solids and breastmilk.

I never took him to the clinic - I weighed him myself just to track his growth. He's 5 now and a skinny, bright, energetic little boy.

DW - just checking in here briefly....can you give exact weights and ages, please? I don't understand how the HV and the doc have looked at the same figures and come to different conclusions, or what the doctor's appointment has revealed that was not clear to the HV, except that there are (apparently) no immediate health concerns with your baby.

I don't see anything in your post to suggest you have been 'starving' your baby.

I do think it's reasonable to check that the doctor is basing her advice on good information. Naturally enough, no one should advise you just to ignore what the doctor says.

Some of the advice here (on this thread) is not based on good info - don't keep her on one side only, which is what some are suggesting. One side only restricts the amount of milk (it's what mothers who are troubled by over-supply can do to adjust their supply downwards). The foremilk/hindmilk thing is a huge great red herring - babies need volume of breastmilk, and messing about worrying if the baby is getting too much foremilk and trying to engineer things so she doesnt, is to miss the point.

It sounds like any extra milk you give would be a squeeze!! She is aleady feeding lots. I don;t see the logic in giving formula as 'extra' - the doctor's view, as if she needs extra she can have more breastmilk (another side or another feed). But as I say, check out the doc's reasoning and info.

The majority of babies with a growth pattern as you describe are well, and well-fed, and physiologically small. I have refs for this if you would like them, but if you really are a doctor's wife you can get them yourself Do a search on faltering growth with the author's name Wright, C.