I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

[chillybangbang]

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

i was in the unusual position of finding breastfeeding incredibly easy. i did not attend any antrenatal classes etc, all my education on motherhood came from books such as 'spiritual midwifery' so i assumed i would breastfeed without ever giving it much thought. both my dcs took a while to latch on properly in hospital, but when formula was hinted at i ignored the suggestion- seemed ridiculous to me, just a case of helping the babies and waiting til they had learned how to get the milk they wanted...

i was called ridiculous by a healthcare assistant, i responded by saying "you are not suggesting that i am ridiulous to feed my baby?" and then she left me alone to get on with it...so, i am aware that my naivety and stubborness helped me to breastfeed where someone of a different personality and different circumstances would have considered the possibility that it might not work.

however, i did not enjoy breastfeeding. it was easy, i had plentiful supply, it didnt hurt for me, no issues at all, i just did not want to do it.

i breastfed both my children until i began weaning, and have never told anyone in real life that i did not enjoy breastfeeding, such is the pressure felt by mothers to breast feed. i wish id had the courage to stop earlier actually. i agree with an earlier post (cant remember who sorry) that pointed out what is nutritionally best for baby must also be weighed up with emotional impact on the mother, and that a happy mother is ultimately best for baby.
for me, breast was most definitely not best. and yes, i am as important as my baby.

i find it incredibly offensive that other women feel they have a right to have an interest in how i feed my children.

Just a few thoughts.

First, I completely agree with HazeyJane. The breastfeeding posters (in the hospital where I gave birth, too) were completely overkill. Yes, wonderfully fullfilled lovely mothers (never with bleeding nipples, never with mastitis). Chubby babies (NOT newborn). A happy, content look on both faces. What a load of b&&£cs!! Some women (I'm lucky & happy to be one of them) do reach a state of bf being enjoyable & easy. But it comes with time, & for some never comes at all, & frankly, presenting this ridiculous portrayal of breastfeeding nirvana in maternity wards (of all places)- when we know for a fact that most women describe having a really hard time trying to bf in a maternity ward... well it's patronizing as hell, not helpful, not giving a clear picture of how things really are at the start... & it reminds me (yet again) of the idealized picture of 'natural childbirth' e.g. when you visit midwife-led units in hospitals. Nothing in that idealized picture prepares you in the remotest to the- often gruesome- reality of childbirth pain, or of the first days of bf. I'm NOT saying these problems can't be overcome. They can. But not by presenting bf as some natural, almost holy idyll.

Second thought. I'm surprised no-one jumped on what Womble Princess said. Basically she said that breastfeeding is clearly best for children, and thus if a woman can't be selfless even in this early choice then why does she bother having children. I'm not even going to start to write down why this argument is so utterly wrong. I think we can all sort of think of arguments against that kind of thinking. Just to say to Womble Princess- I'm sorry, but your attitude shows an utter lack of respect or understanding for other women, and in that way is as selfish as can be. And I don't care how selfless you (think you) were with your child. You certainly haven't carried on that selflessness in other areas of life. And to me it's not enough for any of us to be selfless (whatever that means) towards one's child. We should be interested in other people's needs, emotions, sensibilities as well.

Final thought. About artificial feeding. I think the term is patronizing & dismissive- and also divisive. Would love though to hear about arguments that support this terminology, am interested & curious.

I have never come across the term artificial feeding in rl. Sounds like a very loaded term to me, so don't think I will be adopting it myself.

rosiejoy - while I think your taking incredible offence is probably just aimed at other women interfering in your rights to choose between breast and formula, I assume that you would prefer that some people take interest in what women feed their children to avoid any more tragedies like the baby who died from being fed on mashed potato and gravy?

HVs do have a duty to try and help the mum to make the best choice for them. They should, imo, all be educated to a more uniform standard in this respect, and not allow their personal feelings to influence the advice they give. And they should be able to offer enabling support - i.e. support that makes the mum feel that she is doing the best for her child under her own circumstances, not end up feeling like she is a "failure" because she hasn't managed to exclusively bf.

Personally, I can't fault my MW and HV care - they were very active in helping me to achieve bf'ing, despite initial problems, and I am grateful to them. Contrary to what Cory said, even though DS did have to have one bottle of formula right at the start cos he couldn't latch, I couldn't express and he desperately needed something, when I asked for another bottle, a lovely MW came and helped me more with bf'ing rather than just give me another bottle. I guess I was lucky with my postnatal care.

And - formula feed is "artificial" in that it is a manufactured product, and it is an artificial form of breastmilk, effectively. But as everyone knows formula is not breastmilk, then it might as well be referred to as formula feeding rather than artificial feeding.

tiktok on Fri 20-Feb-09 16:20:11

"Where have you heard that people think 'you might as well give up at once' after a bottle???"

From several of my friends who did give up breastfeeding because they thought mixed feeding was bound to fail. Perhaps they just represent a particularly uneducated section of the population. But I haven't made it up. I never believed in it, but I know many people who did. Certainly a few years ago, health visitors used to warn against mixed feeding.

cory, you said 'here' it is seen as 'gospel' that you might as well give up after a bottle....I understood that by 'here' you meant mumsnet. You may have meant 'in my neighbourhood', I suppose, so I grant you, I can't know what is seen as 'gospel' in everyone's different neighbourhoods!

It's not a common idea, though, as I explained in my post.

I like the idea.

I believe in:

• normalising breastfeeding to the public
• encouraging and supporting pregnant women/ new mothers
• fighting the government/ campaigning etc

Fighting the public, pregnant women or new mothers isn't going to make a difference and certainly won't normalise things. I think we need to learn and remember which way round to do it.

The term 'artificial feeding' is a technical one, and technically correct, and is used in some textbooks for midwives and others.

I don't care for the term, though, as most women who use formula dislike it, and feel antagonised by it....it's certainly not the term that most mothers would use in normal conversation, so why use it? It seems to me to be 'artificial' to select this term over the more normal, and equally technically correct, 'formula feeding'.

Does artificial feeding not also refer to ebm though? As in product is natural but method is not?
I didn't seee the selfless post by WomblePrincess, but since I am MNing while DS tidies my kitchen cupboards out, I definitely can't make any claims to selflessness!

It can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean

But the technical term for using formula is 'artificial feeding' and in any textbook or research paper, these words would not mean anything else.

thumbwitch- yes you are quite right, it is certainly not a clear cut situation. the way we choose to parent our children is such an emotive subject therefore the strength of reaction is likely to be out of proportion to the reality of the threat posed to me- if i had decided to stop breastfeeding earlier nobody would actually have been able to focribly prevent me.

i suppose ultimately i agree it is important to discuss these issues to ensure children are not harmed through ignorance. and whilst i absolutely agree nutritionally breast milk is far superior to formula, i believe that we should be encouaring choice rather than higher take up of one method over another.

Oh come on tiktok, you know very well that "technical" means very little in such an ideologically & emotionally loaded area! We don't really use the term 'artificial' for other foodstuffs, so why on earth use it- even in textbooks- when it's obviously going to sound awful to women who give formula milk to their babies. I do understand you don't like it personally, but surely even it's 'objective' use in textbooks etc is not that innocent & definitely holds a derogatory meaning. When it's used here on MN, that's even more the case.

As for the attitude against mixed feeding. I agree with cory, actually. I feel that here on MN- & in rl too- using some formula is really presented as a serious threat to continued bf. And while I agree that formula at the beginning is not the best idea- & maybe it's never the best idea- would it not be more helpful if creative & accurate & warm support was given to women who for various reasons do mixed feeding. My personal experience both from talking to helplines & also to my mw (at the very beginning, when we gave just one single bottle of formula- & then none for 4 months) is that this support is not forthcoming.

I dont know about the mixed feeding but I would contest Rosiejoy's assertion that we should be offering choice and not encouraging one method over another - to do that presupposes that they are both the same which simply isnt the case.

I think we should be encouraging the thing that is best for the baby and best (healthwise) for the mother and best for society in general - I dont see the problem in that actually.

i wonder if what we are really discussing then is how much value we should place on the mothers feelings?

i dont dispute the benefits for the baby of bf, which is why i bf both my children. but i didnt feel i had a choice, and actually i was a much happier person when i was ff.

i believe that the benefit to my children of my being happy and relaxed is greater than the detriment of feeding them a substitute for my breast milk

but i appreciate that others feel the physical benefits to the baby of breastmilk are so great that the ideal would be for all mothers to bf at whatever emotional cost (rereading that i sound critical, im not trying to be, just trying to wrap my head around an opinion that is not my own...)

Rosiejoy - I agree that the mother's feelings have to be key. Problem at the moment is that people seem to have guilt, prejudice and an unsympathetic society whatever they do with feeding, from my limited perspective.

But I don't agree the answer is to pretend that nutritionally ff is as good as bf for child and mother, as that's messing around with facts. But the baggage that goes with it, is a totally different matter.

So, as a start, I think we should agree that the term artificial feeding has no place here...

Rosiejoy - I was also really interested if you had any insight into why you didn't like breastfeeding?

As regards the bf posters- I can see where you are coming from (happy chubby older babies and bf 'nirvana') As someone said on another thread a few months ago, ff in our culture is so ingrained and normalised that the makers of bf posters take the approach of 'selling' us bf, making it attractive and rosy. And some of them (particularly one I've seen aimed at young mothers, with a nose-ringed girl bf a baby and 'txt spk' blurb 'thkn of feedn?' around her, bleurgh) are very patronising. Anyone seen these? Some are definately provocative...esp the 'skin to skin' one which I don't like at all. But I do like the four with the (admittedly rather large) baby feeding, 'healthy baby healthy you''designer mum designer milk' etc.

rosiejoy - not disputing the importance for babies and families in general of mothers being happy, but being happy won't protect your baby from bacteria and viruses, only breastfeeding will do that. Happy or not - your baby is more likely to be ill and admitted to hospital if he or she is not fed on your milk. And women who ff (who presumably are happy with their method of feeding) don't as a group have lower rates of pnd. In fact as a group they have higher rates of pnd than bf mothers on the whole - despite the fact that a lot of bf mothers in this country are struggling with bf.

Would also like to point out that the nutritional benefits are only part of the picture for the baby - it's not just about the food; surely the whole experience of feeding from the baby's point of view should be considered? Bottlefeeding and breastfeeding don't just feel different for mums you know - they feel different for babies too!

Anyway - I'm feeling very today. Just come back from a nightshift. 23 babies on postnatal ward. Only 9 breastfed. Only three of the breastfed babies not getting additional bottles of formula, basically because the staff were too busy/couldn't be bothered/didn't have the skills to get them breastfeeding properly.

Those breastfeeding mothers - most of who've had no antenatal education on breastfeeding have been set up for a few weeks of horribly difficult, unhappy breastfeeding. They mostly don't know that though, because the staff encourage them to think that giving their baby loads of bottles and not having any skin to skin contact once they get up onto the postnatal ward won't make any difference to how they bf once they get home. By the end of next week many of those mums will be feeling like failures and at the point of stopping trying to breastfeed.

One of the support workers on the ward turned to me half way through the evening and said 'I don't hold with all this breastfeeding stuff. Most of these mothers won't make enough milk for their babies you know' and I'm biting my tongue to stop myself from saying 'No - not now you've messed it all up for them by giving their babies loads of bottles on the ward'.

Honestly - it's like someone has taken the 10 Unicef Baby Friendly Steps and turned them upside down on this ward. The hospital is like a big factory whose job is to turn out unhappy, dysfunctional breastfeeders.......

I'm sick to death of the amount of bad practice and ignorance about breastfeeding management. I think this situation warrants militancy, for the sake of mothers and babies, who are being diddled out of something that is their birthright.

Oh chilly... have an un-mn hug! It's very demoralising isn't it. Especially when the pn staff are so, well, I'll be blunt: useless!

Been following this thread with great interest... It's so interesting how bf here is seen as a lifestyle choice as something you choose to do that is beneficial to your baby whereas ff, although not beneficial in terms of health, offers certain advantages (easier in short-term, some women don't like idea bf etc etc). It's also interesting how women here (myself included!!) view bf as an achievement.

I have just been to The Gambia on holiday and spent time with women who are currently bf. BF there is not seen as an achievement or a choice and offers no kudos - it's just the way a women feeds her baby. From what I gather, women are not shown how to bf and noone I spoke to had ever had any problems nor would they consider not bf. They have immense confidence in their own bodies which is perhaps what we (collectively) have lost in the UK.

Maria, stop scolding me

I made it crystal clear in my post last night that it is not appropriate (IMO) to use 'artificial feeding' outside of a technical, textbook context, and explained why I thought that.

My subsequent post was merely to clarify the technical meaning.

There are many phrases used technically in medical and professional healthcare textbooks and research that are not appropriate used outside...'incompetent cervix' springs to mind

I had my first baby 10 months ago. I was very keen to bf and went to breast feeding classes before DS was born.

I had a horrendous birth (2 1/2 days labour leading to an emergency c-section). My milk NEVER came in. I tried bf until DS lost a dangerous amount of weight. All along the many midwives I saw told me that I HAD to breast feed (one even said that formula was disgusting and she would never feed her baby anything containg fish eyes). For three days my baby and I were re-admitted to hospital to help me to feed. Being constantly on a huge double breast pump didn't help. I had to ff to feed my baby.

At this point I was distraught, felt a failure, a huge amount of guilt and was in the depths of PND. I am sure that the lack of understanding from health workers who were focussed on me achieving bf no matter what contributed to this.

My point is yes, it's great if you can breast feed and obviously the best choice for the baby. However, things aren't always black and white and the choice is not always clear.

If I have another child and I am unfortunate enough for the same feeding problem to occur I will ff with no guilt as this in the end led to my family being happier and healthier both mentally and physically.

Also - Maria, on mumsnet, we have no control over technical vocabulary used in textboks , but we can choose to avoid unsuitable words here....which is exactly what I implied.

What an interesting discussion, loving all the points of view and here's another from a ff mum (but very much wanted to be a bf). Hvaing given birth in 2007, I didn't actually feel like ff was the norm, I felt terribly guilty and absolutely not normal for ff. So perhaps it's a problem with perceptions on both sides. Tiktok and I have already had a back and forth on this on another thread (although I hope all in good grace tiktok, think your advice to other mn's struggling with bf has been great). I don't disagree for a moment that there should be more support for bf and perhaps volunteers of other local bf mums available from HV or GP would help as a support group through surgeries etc. However, being a ff from 2 weeks and the only from my antenatal group, I felt like the outsider particularly when given the argument about the 'health risks' (interestingly no one believed me when I told them I had been told that in a previous post, but I've now seen it alluded to in this thread !) It's about good holistic choices for mum, dad and baby (I include dad because they play a vital role in both scenarios), look at the whole picture and sometimes you know ff is not a bad choice. (Get's ready for an onslaught!)

chilly, i can understand a lot more where you are coming from having read your last post. i am most definitly not anti breastfeeding.

i suppose for me i was just exhausted. i am very slim naturally, didnt put on much weight during pregnancies and i found breastfeeding so physically draining i could not keep up with other demands eg. family life!

i had my children 15months apart. with the second i decided during pregnancy i would breastfeed dd for a month no matter what, as i got to the end of that month my partner had to work away for a week. after a few days of cluster feeding through the night and struggling to take care of my other child in the day i switched to formula because i felt i had responsibility to care care for my other child too which went beyondwhat i could offer by breastfeeding if rthat makes sense?

both my children were born by c-section so i guess that would have major impact on my energy levels ( although i certainly never felt it prevented bonding)

i was lucky with my first baby- i had excellent midwife on my ward who told me jokingly that she had all 3 of her kids by c-section, and they practically starved for the first 6weeks whilst she established breastfeeding. really i have to be grateful to her for giving me the confidence that my babies would sort it out for themselves.

i have reacted very emotionally to this thread, but it touched a nerve for me. i believe in the benefits of breastfeeding, but i resenedt feeling like someone elses values should be my own, and i felt such pressure to breastfeed i didnt feel able to do what i needed