I am a militant lactivist - have you got a problem with that?

[chillybangbang]

Couldn't resist the bolshy thread title...

... but actually I would describe myself on having 'militant' beliefs and feelings on the subject of baby feeding. I wanted to post on this issue because I see a lot of ire directed at militant bf advocates - I wanted to see if I could flush out any other people on this board who feel the same.

Should explain, when I say 'militant' what I mean is that I see the fact that the majority of babies in this country are not breastfed as a political issue and one of public concern. I also see it as an ecological and economic scandal - that one of the world's greatest natural resources, one that's produced by women alone, is being squandered, and that there are people who are profiting hugely from this situation being allowed to continue unchecked.

I want to reclaim the phrase 'breastfeeding militant' from people who are currently using it as an insult. I don't think being a bf militant means you are against choice or that you are judgemental of women who don't breastfeed. In fact the more I understand about the barriers to initiating breastfeeding and the challenges breastfeeding mothers face that make them give up, the more militant I become!

So there you go, cards on the table. Are there any others on this board who want to put their hands up and say: "I am a bf militant"?

Sweetkitty - do people that feed their children on formula do it because they think it's best for them? I think not but I could be wrong.

The battle the 'formula companies' have is to get those mothers who have opted to FF for whatever reason to choose their brand over another.

thedolly - I cannot begin to speak for every mother thats uses formula but from experience especially of my Mothers generation there is a belief that formula is as good as if not better than BM.

I agree in part that formula companies want mother to chose their product over their rivals but if BFing rates started to creep up, their profits would start to drop. You just have to look at the cartons "breastmilk substitute" and the way they get round the advertising ban with the Follow on and growing up milks.

I was very saddened recently visiting a friend who recently had a DS, he was 10 days old and BFing hadn't been successful, she said to me "I have already failed as a Mum, I can't even BF" I said do not be so silly, you have not failed, you tried to BF it didn't work out, you switched to bottles, motherhood is a guilt trip, you always feel guilty no matter what you do, stop feeling bad and start enjoying your baby.

thedolly - do you mean they think it's best for the baby? Because I think from the other comments on here people do choose to ff because it's best for them iyswim.

I used to know the person who managed the Johnson's baby brand - as it was so dominant, they didn't specifically try to promote Johnson's but rather to grow the entire market instead. As a newbie to this area, I don't have a sense as to whether there is an equivalently dominant ff manufacturer.

sweetkitty - I think you might enjoy the film Idiocracy if you haven't seen it (it's a bit daft, but makes a similar point to your oxygen one!).

This is an interesting debate and one I shall return to when I have put the kids to bed tonight.

I cannot classify myself as a militant breastfeeder, I am unusual, as I have fed my first children to the ages of 23 months and 2 1/4 yrs - I have breastfed through two pregnancies and I have fed an older child and newborn at the same time. I am currently successfully bfing no.3 at 4 months and will continue till she and I are ready to stop.

I do think I am fortunate to have had few real difficulties with breastfeeding, aside from some horrendous bouts of mastitis - I am also aware that I was able to dedicate the time necessary to establishing feeding with each baby due to a supportive family.

But I have opted out of the bf'ing debate in the public realm in the main as I have noted how defensive women become about the subject when they feel they are being judged/ criticised in some way on their feeding - even if all you are doing is stating the facts of your own experience. I have no desire to make women feel bad.

BUT I do have an issue with breastfeeding 'rooms' in shopping centres etc being used by people ff their babies - 'get yer arse out of my comfy chair' is what I dearly want to shout on the many occasions I have attempted avail myself of these facilities with leaking boobs and a squealing child!

There is research on what people think about formula.

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Pressreleases/DH_4081944 showed that a third of mothers think formula is very similar or the same as breastmilk.

Beliefs like these are fostered by advertising and promotion.

Formula companies want to reach women who start breastfeeding, and then encourage them switch to ff . This is because the marketing research shows women who start off bf are more 'nutrition conscious' and they are likely to keep their babies on infant/follow on/toddler/whatever special milks, and they are open to believing these products present something special and different. So it makes sense to target these women, and to try to get them to stop bf asap.

Bigmouth - am I missing something (please bear in mind DC1 hasn't yet put in an appearance so this is genuine ignorance on my part ) but why would someone ffeeding need a special room to do it in? Couldn't they just plonk themselves down anywhere there was a seat without risk to their own privacy or offending anybody's sensibilities?

I am in two minds about the existence of feeding rooms in themselves ... nice to have somewhere quiet to go, but i once got told to remove myself to the feeding area in ikea by some old bat as it was "a more appropriate place"
i had chosen to breast feed in the open area so someone i was meeting there could find me - I dont have any qualms about feeding in public and hate the feeling that it is something i have to hide away doing. I think this attitude merely compounds some people's belief that BF is more onerous etc than FF.

That, Helen, is my point entirely I would like to know why I have to ask people to shift out of these spaces - they can use a chair in a cafe or a bench - that is what I do usually - but maybe it is more difficult if you have to juggle bottles and the like instead of just lifting your top. I don't know as I have never done it.

I would think feeding in a nice comfy chair is more pleasurable than a bench however you feed your baby.

Some women feel guilty for FFing, maybe they wouldnt want to do it in public? Not that they should feel ashamed, but I am thinking of someone I know who FF when she had intended to BF and she found it hard enough to put a bottle in her babies mouth, even worse when there were other people around to see it.

Ahhh, thanks bigmouth. Now have image of juggling boobs in my head!

Wombleprincess - but I am mega-shy, so like the option of a more private space... Of course after labour, birth and apparent need to use public loos with doors open when you're out with a pram, perhaps I'll be less concerned about discreetly breastfeeding in public.

Nah Helen. Just pop into the disabled loos and feed the baby there

"I'm a professional, empowered and highly
educated women who looked into both methods of feeding and made a decision to try to BF. Unfortunately I couldn't make it work and therefore DS was FF (not artificially fed ) from very early on. I hated BF and was absolutely determined to stop. I didn't want to phone helplines or have random strangers advising me on my technique.

Please don't presume that if all women were aware of the benefits of BF and had support on hand that they would make the choice to BF. I'm aware of the benefits, I wouldn't attempt it again and I'm sure I'm not alone."

What I said was in response to a post where someone had described the comments of women at her antenatal class - first time mothers I assume. Your own situation was very different.

I'm sorry you found bf so unpleasant. Unfortunately the only way to access knowledgable help with breastfeeding in our society is often through helplines and clinics. In a different world you'd have had a friend or a female relative who would have had experience of bf who might have been able to help you.

"DS was FF (not artificially fed ) from very early on. "

Formula feeding is referred to as 'artificial feeding' because it's the most accurate way of describing it. The milk is artificial and the method of delivery is artificial. Doesn't mean that babies don't enjoy it or that bottlefeeding a baby can't be a good experience for both people involved.

I passionatly believe all militants should be shot!...hang on a minute..

The feeding is real enough though. Substitute feeding perhaps.

tiktok Have just read the myths press release. I am not sure that simply addressing these myths will lead to change of any sort. There are issues that affect why people do/don't breastfeed but these aren't them IMO

I am sure we could come up with an alternative set of reasons which could be more successfully addressed (see sweetkitty's post on page 6)

sweetkitty I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

Gosh, the bold is a bit bold isn't it

Those are self reports aren't they? And rely probably on a list of options in a phone poll. I strongly doubt that that methodology gives the full picture.

Is it possible to be a b'feeding militant, if you haven't b'fed? (Or you have, but failed so badly that you have ended up f'feeding 2 dd's!)

I only ask, because there does seem to be an assumption, that all people who f'feed, have no interest whatsoever in what goes into formula (I am thinking of Penthesilia's post of 09.42). I am appalled by the fact that new ingredients are added to formula without adequate testing. I am fascinated by the links that m'netters like Tiktok and Hunkermunker put up, about formula, and have learnt loads since joining mumsnet. But, it is very hard reading, I am in a position, where I failed to b'feed for all sorts of reasons, after trying everything I could think of, and so ended up giving formula. It is very hard to read about the negative aspects of formula, and still feed it to your lo's all day every day. I do respond to posts about constipation etc, with suggestions of different formulas, because they are posts by women who are already f'feeding, and IME, different formula's can have different effects on a babies digestion.

I just wanted to point out that not all mums who have f'fed have no interest in what they are feeding their child, how to improve b'feeding support, the work of Baby Milk Action, or how formula should be produced (as an unbranded, not for profit 'medicine' IMO).

I have just rambled on for so long, i have burnt my chocolate brownies - that's how passionate I am!

I went to a bf 'workshop' when I was pg, and the mw refused to discuss ff. I wish she had talked about the risks, because I never thought of it like that, I knew bf 'benefits' but it never occurred to me that actually bf was normal and really bf doesn't have 'benefits' actually ff carries risks. I think many midwives are afraid to discuss ff and it seems to be swept under the carpet for fear of offending people

I find it a little patronising to assume that the only reason a person would stop bf is because of a lack of support.

I found bf HELLISH; painful, exhausting and lacking in any kind of satisfaction. On a less selfish note, dd never settled, screamed constantly and we were both miserable. Within a day of introducing ff we were both happier (apart from the nagging guilt I feel every time I read a thread like this), not in pain, sleeping and settled. If someone had arrived at this point and offered me support, I don't think it would have made the blindest bit of difference. And I find it insulting that 'militants' assume that I am ignorant and uneducated based on my decision.

Sorry if that is a little ot, it just struck me that the only response to low bf uptake is that there is no support available.

Rosieeo I wouldn't think for a minute that anyone would criticise your decision to ff when you did. THAT was not when you required support imo, that was when you needed a solution and a way out asap.

The support should have come way before you found yourself in that position.

Re the b'feeding posters, I think what irritated me about them, was that, in the post natal ward when I had dd's the walls were covered (I mean every inch!)with 'breast is best' posters. Sitting there with my bleeding, blistered nipples, with dd screaming the place down, me in tears, whilst yet another MW had dd's head in one hand and my breast in another, rather made me detest the happy smiling mummies b'feeding their lovely babies (all looked bigger, happier and much less wriggly than my poor tonguetied dd). With some of the appalling support I had from the hospital, I think the overkill of the posters was just lipservice to the fact that it was purortedly 'baby friendly'.

Snowlight - I genuinely don't believe that society played its part in my decision to not continue with BF. It was a decision taken by me because I hated every minute of it. I'm fully aware that nutritionally it wasn't the best thing to do for my child. I'd make that choice again.
That's it. No hidden reasons.

It's got nothing to do with it being less rewarding than paid work. Raising my DC is the most rewarding thing I have ever done and I certainly am not anti-BF.
I just have a feeling that a lot of breast feeding lobbyists believe that if women had all the facts and unlimited support they would automatically want to breastfeed. I don't think this is the case.
For some of us it's about choice and not education.

I shouldn't have used when I was referring to artificial feeding. I'm just a bit bemused that personally I've only ever heard FF called artificial feeding on threads like this or by pro-active supporters of BF. Very rarely referred to as anything but FF elsewhere. Therefore I wonder if it's not necessarily descriptive but in this case maybe judgemental?