"Breast-feeding Militia" or "Bottle-feeding Defensive"?

[CalaLilly]

I have been struck by a conversation on another forum I visit that there seems to often be very polarised views on these methods of feeding and that people often (though obviously not always) join a camp. From the safety of each camp it's easy to be patronising or insulting about the other camp for example you can say "Breast feeding is repulsiive and really shouldn't be done in public" or "bottle-feeding mothers are selfish and haven't done the best they could for their baby".

The thing that makes me most sad is that it seems near impossible to see the middle ground and to unite together as "mums", resigned to the fact that motherhood is tough and the nutrition aspect is a challenging part of that. I personally love the Baby Friendly Program but I think that, in addition to many benefits, it has served to pronounce this split.

Have others noticed this division? How can we unite... if indeed we should unite? How can we provide robust education on why BF is so great and also good support for Mum's trying it without making Mum's feel pressurised or a failure if they bottle feed?

i agree completly, but have no idea!

i think that the division if there is one, is more pronounced on a forum

because there is so much emotion invovled in breast feeding, or not being able to breast feed, or not recieving adequate support, then people do get upset and can become defensive

to be honest, i think that most women do want the middle ground, but the comments that get picked up on and argued about to tend to revolve around the more knee jerk comments, like breastfeeding should be done in private etc etc

The lexicon surrounding the debate is saddening. It's hardly war.

Though I prefer lactivist myself.

You ask a pertinent question. I don't know the answer.

You see even asking the question leads to a reintroduction of the loaded sentiments such as those written by the hedgewitch.

It's too emotional for some to distance themselves from.

very true hedgewitch.

I don't join in the BF vFF debates as i know i will be portrayed as a bad mother who is too thick to do the best for my child.

i feel as though i need to invent some extreme reason why i couldn't have breastfed rather than the truth which was that despite know the case for bf i simply didn't feel comfortable doing it.

but at the same time, if those who made a concious decision to Ff stood up to give their argument without becomeing defensive it would be a much more fluid discussion rather than slangnig match

I totally agree with you. I tried to breastfeed my dd, but really struggled and expressed milk and gave her top ups of formula. I felt quite upset with myself for the first few weeks because i was doing the "wrong" thing but soon realised (my sanity returned after more sleep ) that my baby was happy, healthy and putting on weight. Surely that is the most important issue? I think with the dividing of parents like this that some of the most important aspects (ie; baby isn't starved) are forgotten.

I'm not sure why BFing gets all the "virtue points" it does. I BF both mine, to 18mo, and both my DH and Mum and Grandma have congratulated me on it (none of them BF (especially not DH!)). Why? I was lucky, I could. DM, DG and SIL all couldn't. They were unlucky, I think (and they all wanted to), but they all have a sense that they didn't "try hard enough". If this were school work or running I would think it insane to assume all people who did better/ran faster were just trying harder!

I suppose it doesn't help much, but making other people feel bad does seem to be a pretty nasty kind of activity.

see, i have never experienced any of that, in nasty comments about bottle feeding, or smugness... if people are rude about how you feed your baby, i thikn they are rude people full stop and to be avoided

Of course a happy and healthy baby is a very important thing, the most important thing ultimately but it is a separate issue from the intense anguish surrounding the furore and sadness created by this "debate".

I wish I had the answers.

There is a divide IMO and it is mainly thanks to the media.
We had a need to change views on BF, to maek it more acceptable and more "normal" . That was great but, not surprisingly, the media grabbed hold of the idea and spun it in such a way that it was seen as a fight between two gangs. It is increadibly sad tht the mothers who are on the two sides cannot or will not see that there are no sides, in reality the divide is false and created by the medis - again.

The way round it is for the media to butt out - for a change. The mothers involved need to embrace tolerance and step up their attempts to bite their tounge. Offering advice is fine but being supportive is the most important thing.

Ff is this years teenage pg or dummy use, we always seem to have something that we get out big sticks out for. The media gets the idea and suddenly it is made into this huge thing. Eventually everyone realises that it is all rubbish and it dies down again until somone finds the next parenting superiority challenge.

I haven't seen many posts along the lines of 'ff mothers are selfish'. You do get a smattering of 'breastfeeding is so much better for babies than ff I just don't understand why some mums won't even try' comments - which tbh I think are perfectly reasonable (though I don't hold this view myself - I think there are lots of barriers to bf that aren't well understood or often discussed).

I've seen loads of posts which take an analytical stance on feeding that get a very angry response from ff mums who take any criticism of artificial feeding as a personal slight.

"A good start would be in the BF mums didn't treat the FF moms like they're idiots or stupid or haven't thought about it deeply before making a decision".

If there was any evidence that the majority of women are making completely free, extremely well-informed decisions about how they are going to feed their babies then I'd be with you on this one. However, all the evidence points to a huge degree of public ignorance about the important differences between bf and ff so I do understand the concern about the lack of informed choice in relation to ff.

Personally Lulumama, most attempts to find a 'middle ground' that I've seen involve a peace-making effort to blur the differences between ff and bf, to try to make them seem equal and comparable, so as to discourage polarisation.

Lulu makes a pertinent comment. The rude comments indicate a rude person.

Hedgewitch, sorry didn't see the thread you mention but is it possible that the bfing advocates were trying to be supportive in case you wanted to have a go at bfing and were just lacking in support or encouragement? It's so hard on a forum not to see it as polarised because you cannot sound the intent of your message. Once they understand that you are clear in your intentions then continuing to press bfing onto you would be rude, but just suggesting it to you might be a kindness that came across incorrectly.

i think that people who have experienced and enjoyed and loved breastfeeding want to encourage and support other mums to have that experience, it is less about formula being a bad choice, and more about encouraging something they want others to enjoy

if you are happy with your decision to formula feed, no-one can make you feel guilty about it

i love being pertinent

i really believe that 99 % of comments such as 'second babies are different' and other encouraging comments are done from the heart.. to encourage someone to do something that has been found positive and enjoyable

but there is a percentage of comments that are rude and nasty and designed to inflame

I think that is half the problem, often people from one side assume anything from the other side is a critiscism when it is meant as a support whilst the other way round people often think that a standpoint is based on lack of knowledge rather than having knowledge that just is different than their own IYSWIM.

i picture you in a suit, pencil skirt, killer heels etc and peering over your glasses whilst making said pertinent comment.

i have seen those sorts of comments re formula feeding, but have seen a lot, lot more kidn and supportive comments re breastfeeding

i have also seen some v v nasty commetns re breastfeeding, partic. natural term breastfeeding. bitty, anyone?

so it cuts both ways

but it would be a shame to ignore the huge amount of support for breastfeeders that can be found here

KingCanute - I really can't feel tolerant towards a situation which I personally feel is such a bad thing for mothers and babies. I've been doing a placement on the postnatal and antenatal wards of our local hospital this week and I've been flabberghasted at the levels of ignorance about feeding and at the poor practice on hospital wards. I don't believe for one minute that the majority of women I come into contact with in RL have made a fully informed decision not to feed their babies their own milk. Most of them have never attended a breastfeeding class, or had access to the medical literature on this subject; they don't know anyone who's bf normally or without problems, they've sometimes had terrible experiences of feeding themselves in the past because of poor care, all they know is bottlefeeding - it's all they see around them....... how on earth can anyone in this position make a choice which is truly 'free' in a meaningful way?

On the flip side, it would be nice if FFers didn't pop up on pro-bf-ing threads and whine about how bf-ers are smug and how it makes them feel guilty/second rate to hear bf-rs talk about it. It would be nice if FF-ers didn't bleat on about "bf-ing mafia" and "nazis".

I couldn't give 2 hoots about how people fed/feed their babies.

"i think that people who have experienced and enjoyed and loved breastfeeding want to encourage and support other mums to have that experience, it is less about formula being a bad choice, and more about encouraging something they want others to enjoy"

here here (or is that hear hear? I never know!) I think 9 times out of 10 people are just trying to be positive about their experience - but it can sometimes come across as preachy by mistake, it's very difficult to be positive about bfing without sounding (even if you don't mean it) derogatory about ffing by implication. I would never, never criticise anyone for choosing to FF but so much of what you read on MN is about the downsides of bfing (latch problems etc) so it's tempting to post about the positives more strongly.

Also it's often not obvious to the person reading what the agenda is of the person posting. I have seen several threads where people post about their bfing difficulties and their decison to formula feed - as the thread evolved it became obvious that what they wanted was just support from other mothers in the same situation, but MN is a very problem-solving forum and the natural instinct of most readers is to jump in and try to solve the problem, so instead of just support/sympathy you get a lot of posts trying to encourage the person to continue bfing or try a new strategy. This then makes the ffer feel undermined and that the implication is that they didn't try hard enough, when in fact all the bfers meant to do is offer help.

Does that make sense?

lulu, usually I picture you up to your elbows in labouring women.

Which, on reflection is not pleasant for anybody concerned.

I'll endeavour to picture you in a suit, being pertinent and earnest more often. Perhaps a little clipboard. With nipple stim diagrams on it.

Not to say I don't think you're pertinent at all times, but oh you know what I mean...