"Breast-feeding Militia" or "Bottle-feeding Defensive"?

[CalaLilly]

I have been struck by a conversation on another forum I visit that there seems to often be very polarised views on these methods of feeding and that people often (though obviously not always) join a camp. From the safety of each camp it's easy to be patronising or insulting about the other camp for example you can say "Breast feeding is repulsiive and really shouldn't be done in public" or "bottle-feeding mothers are selfish and haven't done the best they could for their baby".

The thing that makes me most sad is that it seems near impossible to see the middle ground and to unite together as "mums", resigned to the fact that motherhood is tough and the nutrition aspect is a challenging part of that. I personally love the Baby Friendly Program but I think that, in addition to many benefits, it has served to pronounce this split.

Have others noticed this division? How can we unite... if indeed we should unite? How can we provide robust education on why BF is so great and also good support for Mum's trying it without making Mum's feel pressurised or a failure if they bottle feed?

Stealth, I am sure there are plenty of women in the position you describe. It is their perogative to feed their child however they like, but I am unable to understand them. I'm not judging, it is just alien to me to think of BFing as "a bit yucky" in the first place, or to stop solely for that reason.

I agree georgie, but I can imagine why if you've been brought up to see ff as the norm and bf as a bit odd (middle class / hippies / middle class hippies!) then it may seem completly natural for you to choose to ff. If those stereotypes could be broken down then fewer women would feel that way.

And I'm not saying, before I get leaped on, that that is why all women choose to ff. As I said below there are plenty who will choose to ff even if my ideals were met. Fine.

I think it is why a lot of women FF actually. It is why most of the women I know who have babies FF. Either they found it "yucky" themselves, or even worse, after starting off BFing perfectly well they gave into pressure from husband/partner/family not to continue.

The reason that makes me saddest is when perfectly normal, healthy BF baby just so baby can go longer between feeds, or because baby was "always hungry". The whole mechanics of BFing are not being explained to new mothers. Even my mother, who exclusively BF me for 6 months (a very rare thing in 1979) told me DS "should" be fed no more than every four hours. Bullshit, mum!

Have to say the old 'HV told me my milk was like skimmed milk so should ff' makes me want to scream 'ignorant fuckwit at the top of my voice.

personally i object to money being spent on trying to persuade the 'icky' contingent. let them be.

spend the money and the energy on helping women who want to bf and are having difficulties. then there will be more of them doing it everywhere and decreasing the ick factor bit by bit.

I agree Aitch.

Sorry... I didn't mean to start a war But I think this debate proves just how emotive this topic is, don't you? What is reassuring is that whist we immediately seem to retreat to our camps, or at least towards them, the majority of us seem to recognise the need for a common, mutually supportive ground. BFing Mum's are immediately going to get their back up about "bitty" or "repulsive" type comments and FFing Mums are going to be defensive over their right to choose what suits them and will obviously be saddened by comments about the constitution of Formula milk.

Yes I agree that these camps are more pronounced on the internet, where we can all hide behind our quirky ID's, but we all know that they exist in "the real world" too. I'm a neonatal nurse so am starkly aware of this debate. I've seen far too many Mum's who try their hardest to express milk/ BF and then rack them self with guilt if they fail.

I'm not quite sure how we foster this mutual acceptance in a genuine way whilst maintaining or ability to express our own opinions but lets all keep striving to find a way

You didn't start the war, CalaLilly, just the latest skurmish. Fret not.

But there is little point being "saddened by comments about the constitution of formula milk" and I'm surprised you think anyone is. It is artificial. It isn't the same as breast milk.

Georgimama, I'm not upset- it's just difficult to convey humour on forums!!

When I said "saddened by comments about the constitution of formula milk" I wasn't referring to facts like it being artificial I was meaning the value loaded statements like "tinned crap" that some people alluded too. Fact is ok but value loaded statements can be hurtful- both ways!

but why does it have to be one or the other Aitch? I agree there's no point getting more women 'wanting' to bf until there's support there for them to deal with any problems. But as well as putting the support in, shouldn't we be changing the culture to make bf 'normal'?

"value loaded statements can be hurtful"
I agree. And they don't tend to be useful either.

purely from a funding perspective, really, SPB, and i think that helping more women as a priority will help to turn this ship around.

certainly more than printed posters that are too scared to tell the real story anyway. because the real story IS that formula is weird stuff compared to bm, and inferior, not the bm is 'best'. (speaking as a ffer, there, i should stress.)

"Best for who? Baby? Sure.
But what about Mom, or does she not matter?"

sure she matters, but lets face it, by becoming parents we are automatically putting someone else before us.

In RL I find I feel defensive about BFing simply becasue it is so rare here (even more so to BF for longer than 6 months. I fed DS until he was 2..imagine how rare THAT is!)
So if that carries into my MN 'life' then apologies. I don't look down my nose on anyone who FFs. BUT I think I am still allowed to be quite proud taht I was lucky enough to be able to BF. and I won't apologise for that.

stop OPPRESSING me, Purplemonkey!

btw do you know there's a purplemunkey? do you want me to go and kill her for you?

but from a public health perspective which is likely to bring back the greater benefit?
(Not saying I'm right, just wondering!)
I suppose I'm spending my unlimited funds again, it's OK to do that on MN, it's when I do it in the supermarket that DH gets annoyed
I agree that poster showing a mum bf in a tidy house surrounded by a pint of water and a fish and vegetables meal aren;t helpful. I suppose what would be helpful is teaching it as part of biology in schools and encouraging women to bf and bf in public.

I have to say that, honestly, in my heart of hearts, I struggle to understand the middle ground you refer to, CalaLilly.

I obviously agree that every mother must make the decision as to how she wants to feed her baby and ultimately it is not relevant to me what that decision is.

But - in very honest opinion (which I would never say in RL but which I can say on MN) - I truly don't understand why most mums choose to ff. Some (very rare) mums can't and my heart goes out to them but in my RL experience that was not the case for any of the mums I know in RL. In my opinion their reasons were poor and based on ignorance. And I'm sorry but I can't help my inner self from judging them.

But that is just judgy me ... by far the majority of bfing experts on MN are far more understanding than me and usually make it very clear that they are trying to help women who are seeking bfing help and not trying to change the minds of those who have made their decision.

For myself, I don't care if anyone wants to call me "Breastfeeding Militia" as I am very confident in my decision and certainly don't feel a need to defend myself.

For any mum who finds herself on the other side of the fence, what do you care what I think? If you have thought about the issues, made an informed decision and come to the conclusion that ff is the best thing for your baby then that is great. No need for you to feel defensive either.

Each to their own (with a little bit of unavoidable inner judging) I say.

Aitch - you are KIDDING. I'm so going to find her and GET her!

Only read first page so here goes.

Have fed both ways

Both DS's i have BF, DS1 till 6 months when i had to stop as i was badly injured by his father.
DD was FF from birth
DS2 is still ongoing (just about lol) although we have had problems gal-friggin-lore

IMO
Its YOUR baby, there are feeding options available, YOU choose what is best for you and your baby. No one else has a right to interfere or tell you their opinion on what you are doing.
Formula milk is basically made by cows, for calves, with some stuff added/taken away to make it suitable for human babies. SO WHAT? Its suitable!
Breastmilk is ready to eat, on tap, made for human babies, but there may be a reason you can't, social or domestic. No one should be made to feel pressurised or guilty about their feeding choice for their baby.

PS yes i have read posts now and agree that more support is needed for mums who choose a method of feeding their baby and need support. Whichever method they choose. BF i admit is harder but only because if you hit a problem, it is difficult to find help/support as quickly as you need it (before the BF relationship goes wrong in some way, milk drying up ect)
Been there got the t-shirt..DS1 no problems, DS2, tongue tie and now thrush (gutted) and i would have given up through the pain many moons ago and i have said before but will say again, thank god for MN and the support i have had from this forum
Also should be made LAW not to ban or harrass BF mothers of children of ANY age in this country. Mind you, anyone harrassing me would end up losing

IMO mums have enough shit/problems/people commenting on the way they bring up their kids, ect ect without nit picking about feeding too...ppl should be grateful IMHO that we are lucky enough to be ABLE to feed our kids whichever way we do, and that they have clean water to drink also.
GRATEFUL.

Like PHW said, it never occurred to me while I was pregnant that I might not breast feed. One thing which really riles me now is that I wish I had had more information beforehand that actually, breast feeding may be natural, but it doesn't always come naturally to either baby or mum. If I had known that this might be a possibility, that actually DD could not/would not feed properly, I would have had a much easier time coming to terms with DD ending up mix-fed. I tried so hard but even the breastfeeding counsellors said I had to top her up with formula as she was losing so much weight, and tbh I am still coming to terms with it, I still have residual feelings that I am failing my baby, like its my fault, like I am not a proper mother etc - which I know are irrational, and really in the great scheme of things as long as she's healthy and putting on weight that's the main thing.

Anyway, the 'education' I was given about BF boiled down to 'Position is everything' and 'Your nipples will get sore'. With benefit of hindsight, this seems woefully inadequate. If I had been prepared for the possibility it might not happen as I had imagined, or at least warned that problems wider than mastitis and sore nips existed, then I think I would have felt less guilt-wracked, or like I was damaging my child, by the fact that we couldn't make breastfeeding work. I don't think it would have made me more likely to give up as the health benefits are, to me, so important. However i would have put myself through less guilt - and guilt can make people defensive. (I certainly feel the need to justify my feeding choices, even in this context, and even if it's unnecessary.)

If there was a less restricted discussion of the realities of breastfeeding before babies arrived and you start dealing with the challenges of feeding your baby with all the new mum hormones and emotions at full volume, then I wonder whether there would be a less polarised view of FF vs BF, and a more accepting view of different personal circumstances?

I agree HoochieMomma - it is a bloody fine line to tread.

I do see what you are getting at, TPHW, and it is certainly not my intention to upset or alienate anyone.

I guess where I am coming from is that I would hope that someone who has informed themselves of the various risks and facts etc and who comes to a decision to ff should be secure in that decision. In my opinion, it is a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly and if the relevant thought has gone into it then the mother should be confident in it. Perhaps this is unduly optimistic ...

Having said that I don't feel the need to pussyfoot around the issue and say that ff is just as good in the event that I alienate anyone. Imo it is not as good but if you have to, you have to and no one should beat themselves up about it or feel the need to be defensive.

But I am taking a hard line here ... When I read posts like yours and BarrelOfMonkeys I am full of sympathy. I really struggled with bfing myself and it was a long hard battle before I could truly say that it was working for us. But, as I said before, in my RL experience the women I know chose to ff for reasons I found hard to respect.