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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

should BF still hurt at almost 6 weeks ?

105 replies

mibbes · 10/01/2009 16:12

we had a rocky start to BF but I expressed and DS finally took to the breast at 10 days old. However, the latch is still seriously toe-curling and he is nearly 6 weeks old - it causes me to yelp or swear out loud. I am now experiencing pain throughout the feed on my bad side (seems to be far less milk on the right side). I have had a few 'white nipple' episodes where it feels like razorblades are being dragged across nipples - agony . This comes and goes. DS doesn't seem to move his head from side to side when he latches any more and his mouth doesn't seem to open as wide - could this be why it hurts so much ? any advice for fixing this as not sure I can continue, am dreading each feed

OP posts:
TheBayingBanshee · 10/01/2009 16:16

This happened to my friend and it turned out she had thrush which was horribly painful but easily treated once diagnosed so I really recommend going to either a breast feeding midwife or the dr. Do not let them fob you off.

AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump · 10/01/2009 16:23

No, it shouldn't. You're not hugely unusual to still be in pain at this stage though, and I'll bet it can be fixed with the right advice, so take heart!

I was also still in agony feeding my dd at 6 weeks, and in our case the problem was a dodgy latch. Every midwife I'd seen had assured me it was FINE, but it bloody wasn't.

Have you got a breastfeeding cafe near you? A breastfeeding councellor? You need to see someone who knows what they're talking about.

What fixed it for us was being very much more definite and less hesitant and gentle and delicate. I held my boob in one hand, her head in ther other, waited for her to open her mouth and SHOVED her on in one quick movement. Really wanged her on. Not that this will necessarily be your problem, but I thought I'd mention it as that was truly all it took for us to go from searing pain and me weeping through every feed for 8 weeks, to lovely comfortable warm cosey feeding that lasted for 15 months.

wenceslasmyeducation · 10/01/2009 17:41

Agree with Alice. Plus when I ditched the cushion and had him lying in my lap, and stopped over-thinking it. It is often position rather than latch iyswim.
Get someone in the know to watch you feed, and get them to check for tongue-tie.
I have to shape my boob and sort of roll it into DS mouth, otherwise his latch would be shallow and cause that nasty white nipple thing.
Try different things til you find something that works, it took me til at least six weeks to figure out what worked for us.

Original poster
mibbes · 10/01/2009 18:49

Thanks ladies, your advice is much appreciated. I am going to a local BF class on Tuesday (it has been off over xmas and NY when I most needed it) so hopefully get some help there. I will just have to try the 'shove it in' method until then , otherwise I may not be BF by Tue as have had enough of crying through every second feed.

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KiwiPanda · 10/01/2009 18:49

My DD is three weeks old and after a similarly rocky start I've never once fed her wihtout toe-curling pain. Nips very red and sore looking but no cracks etc. So I finally cracked and went to Dr today and he reckoned thrush and has given me nystatin (for her, which I don't think she's impressed by at all!) and daktarin gel for me. So I'd suggest at least getting it checked out by Dr, can't hurt!

Am hoping these meds will sort us out - good luck to you - here's to a pain free feed... !

Original poster
mibbes · 11/01/2009 16:39

Thanks KiwiPanda. I can't see any physical signs of thrush on either me or DS so it is probably just the latch I need to get seen to. TBH was hoping it was thrush or something physical that could be sorted with cream/drugs but looks like we'll have to experiment with various latch changes. Have been trying to shove the breast in but DS has a really smal mouth so not getting much extra in there ! Any tips for encouraging him to open wider ?

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jkklpu · 11/01/2009 16:44

Was v painful with ds1 for about 3 months. Lansinoh cream on nipples helped a bit (but don't use if you're allergic to lanolin).

moonincancer · 11/01/2009 16:46

put baby to you, dont chase baby with the nipple. there are some useful clips on you tube ive heard...dont give up

MamacitaGordita · 11/01/2009 18:32

Mibbles no advice from me but I am in exactly the same boat... I too was almost'hoping' for thrush to just have something definate to treat with drugs but like you it's just good old fashioned positioning and attachment. I have a BF counsellor helping me out so really hope to get it soon- with me it's just the right side that's agony (cracks ooooooh) although both nipples are a nice hot pink colour! So sorry I can't be of help but you're not alone! Get along to your BF support group and get a BFC on the case. Here's to nice cosy comfy feeding for both of us- if I'm fed up of pillows, lansinoh, crying (me not DS!)etc! x

Original poster
mibbes · 11/01/2009 22:56

Mama so sorry to hear you are going through the same, but it does help to know I'm not alone. That is my life exactly, feeding pillow, lansinoh and crying during some feeds. I absolutely dread feeding and even find myself putting it off for a few minutes as the latch is sooooo sore . I really want to experience the joy of BF that so many others describe - for me it is a chore but I am determined to persevere. Let me know how you get on. I'm going to the GP tomorrow for an emergency appt as have noticed this evening that even if not too sore during the feed I am getting a burning sensation afterwards for quite some time, I can't help thinking it is thrush (esp as someone told me it doesn't have to have physical symtpoms).

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swanriver · 11/01/2009 23:25

Just wanted to say that I only sorted this pain problem out after 9 weeks of bad latch. Excellent (independent) counsellor noticed that baby wasnt opening mouth wide enough and showed me how to solve problem by shaping nipple with forefinger and thumb in v shaped movement (from below breast ie; vertical fingers) whilst holding baby horizontal, and bringing him to the breast with my other hand cradling his shoulders. Sounds contortionist, but it means baby doesn't actually need to open his mouth very wide. It's like using one of those old-fashioned needlethreaders. It made a dramatic difference and letdown was much better. Also sitting in a chair/sofa where my arms were supported with pillows so the baby wasn't dragging the breast down whilst feeding.

AliceTheCamelHasGotTheHump · 12/01/2009 10:52

How's it going Mibbles?

madmouse · 12/01/2009 13:13

coming a bit late to this and hopefully you will have gotten good rl advice by now, but one reason for baby not opening wide enough is bring babe to breast just a second too early.

also I have big breasts and scbu bf counsellor taught me to make a kind of burger/sandwich by placing thumb 1in above areola and index finger below

MamacitaGordita · 12/01/2009 13:30

What's the verdict mibbles? Did your GP think thrush? I had a 'night off' the sorer side and expressed from it so it feels better today- hoping the BFC will give us some top tips. Keep us updated! x

KiwiPanda · 12/01/2009 17:29

I've been using the meds for 48 hours or so now and have noticed an improvement I think, but not dramatic so I suspect I may have thrush AND latch issues. I've been trying the shape breast and shove in mouth technique but whatever I do doesn't seem to make much difference to be honest. It's horrible, isn't it, when something that should be lovely is something you end up dreading..?

Of course, it could still be thrush that's not clearing up quickly.. or it could have not been thrush at all..

Sigh

Original poster
mibbes · 12/01/2009 21:18

GP has given me Daktarin cream as she thinks it is thrush. I have the 'oral' cream as she says it will help DS too in case he has it in his mouth. I have to apply to nipples every 4 hours - have fingers crossed as I have already noticed less post-feed burning pain after 1 application !
I also reckon I have a latch issue as someone told me that if nipple is lipstick shaped as opposed to rounded then the latch needs fixing. Hope the BFC can help me tomorrow. I'll try the 'shaping' tonight though - thanks so much for your tips ladies.
Kiwi and Panda good luck woth sorting your painful feeding.

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MiniMarmite · 12/01/2009 21:34

Haven't read the whole thread but have you tried avent or medela nipple shields. BF was hell for me for the first 6 weeks (but first 3 were as you describe). I had cream for thrush too but I found the things that made the biggest difference were getting latching issues sorted at breastfeeding clinic and using shields while baby and I got the hang of it all. Avent ones good to start with as they are thick and help healing, medela ones are thinner (if you need the smaller size you will need to call them as you can't get them in shops) so better for when you are practising for when you go back to feeding without shields. In my case everything healed up and baby and I found the best way to feed for us. He's now nearly 5 months and I'm still exclusively breastfeeding after almost giving up on a daily basis for the first 6 weeks. Good luck :-)

MamacitaGordita · 13/01/2009 11:05

Fingers crossed the daktarin helps Mibbles and KiwiPanda- starting to think my issues might be exacerbated by thrush too after speaking to the BFC yesterday- although in reality it will probably be a combination with poor latch as it's worse on one side. I think you've hit the nail on the head KiwiPanda- it's the fact that it should be so lovely and just isn't. I'm BF for DS really but I'd like to enjoy it as much as he clearly does!

KiwiPanda · 13/01/2009 19:47

I just wish I knew definitely if it was thrush or latch.. the HV and various midwives have observed me feeding her and don't seem to think there's a latch problem but then DD doesn't have any signs of thrush either and all I have is the pain and redness.. I went back to doctor today in despair but she didn't really know anything about fluconzole (sp?)

Am despairing to be honest. On top of that DD won't let me put her down for 2 seconds today so I can't even air the breast area...

Original poster
mibbes · 13/01/2009 21:53

Kiwi what a nightmare you are having . I can't 'air' my nipples as if they get atall cold I get 'white nipple' which is like razor blades being dragged across them .

BF class was usless today as HV just told me to try different positions - but I'm too afraid in case they hurt even more. Fed after the BF class at home and was screeching with the pain then in floods of tears - am so glad I didn't have to do that in public ! Am not sure how much longer I can endure this but on the other hand I was inconsolable for the first 10 days of DS's life when BF wasn't working out so I figure that physical pain better than the emotional pain . I had no idea BF could be so difficult before I had a baby !

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fishie · 13/01/2009 21:58

i haven't had thrush but have had bad latch problems.

i think you should both speak to a bf counsellor mibbes and kiwipanda. separately of course

it sounds as though you both have problems which need proper fixing, not the support which is all we can give here or you have found from untrained hv/gp.

Eirlys · 13/01/2009 22:23

Mibbes

I think you have a vasospasm/ raynauds of the nipple. Check out www.kellymom.com

I had exactly the same, went round in circles thinking I had thrush, tried airing my nipples and it was excruciating!!
The best advice I had was to have a cup tea of tea and a little bit of red wine (125ml) each day , this worked for me and I seemed to grow out of it. I think there is medication - see kellymom, but I didn't get that far as needing it.
Keeping my nips warm and using the softest breastpads helped (I used tommee tippee & johnstons).

I can empathise with you, it was 10 weeks till every feed was pain-free (not just because of raynauds, other serious issues too) but at 10 months and still having a lovely bf relationship with my ds it was well worth it.

God, this makes me so sad that there is not more awareness of vasospasm accross the bf community, I think that there a lot of us who have suffered unneccesarily long

hth

Eirlys · 13/01/2009 22:27

I just looked it up now, here's the exact link www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html

One think that convinced me it was definite raynauds was that my nipple blanched (lost all blood supply) after using a pump.

luvaduck · 13/01/2009 22:31

i agree with eirlys and was just about to write the same

its much more common than previously thought, and some people can grow out of it and some need meds

however you deffo need to see someone in RL

(if it is thrush after all you may find that the cream isn't enough and you need tablets..)

MamacitaGordita · 14/01/2009 13:20

This is now the 'Is it thrush or is it latch whatever it is it's AGONY support thread!'

My empathy to both of you Kiwi and Mibbles. I've asked the HV to sort me out some thrush treatment... don't know if it is thrush but I have some of the symptoms and this all started when I was on abx and had old fashioned 'downstairs' thrush! Oh I hate those unfriendly yeasty bacteria... they have caused me some serious torture over the years...grrr

I've been trying to rest the sorest side and express but the pump is nowhere near as good at removing the milk as DS so it tends to stay quite full. My BFC told me about a woman who had terribly traumatised nipples and just expressed and gave EBM via bottle for 4 weeks, then re-introduced her baby to the breast. She then successfully fed for months. BFC said babies can re-learn to go on- drastic action and expressing like that is so tough but I found it a bit comforting.

Anyway I really hope the thrush stuff works for all of us Lansinoh addicts- think I may actually finish the tube which I'm sure is unheard of!