should BF still hurt at almost 6 weeks ?

[mibbes]

we had a rocky start to BF but I expressed and DS finally took to the breast at 10 days old. However, the latch is still seriously toe-curling and he is nearly 6 weeks old - it causes me to yelp or swear out loud. I am now experiencing pain throughout the feed on my bad side (seems to be far less milk on the right side). I have had a few 'white nipple' episodes where it feels like razorblades are being dragged across nipples - agony . This comes and goes. DS doesn't seem to move his head from side to side when he latches any more and his mouth doesn't seem to open as wide - could this be why it hurts so much ? any advice for fixing this as not sure I can continue, am dreading each feed

Hope my previous message sounded encouraging not smug!

Helms thank you so much for that. It is great to hear that your NCT BFC wants to project a balanced view. If I'd been told the truth it wouldn't have put me off but it would've better prepared me. I was thinking that it was just me and my boobs were not up to the job but hearing that so many others are going through the same has made me realise that many (if not most) BFing women go through a certain amount of agony to get to the painfree bliss of BFing .

Victorian thanks for the link to the leaflet, very useful.

Kiwi and Bisou good luck with the meds

Mama LOL at DS giving you funny looks ! How was BF support group ?

pbo thank you so much for sharing your positive story - it is great for us to hear that there can be pain-free feeding after thrush

Welll update here is that the post-feed pain has reduced significantly and after the latch most feeds are now pretty confortable. Ironically I think stopping use of all creams (daktarin and lansinoh) has helped the nipples go dry and tougher which has eased the pain . The reynauds seems to have settled too - I had read that it can be triggered by the thrush so I reckon once the thrush has gone then the reynauds goes too - I even had a shower without complete agony drying myself today - woohoo !

mibbes I can relate to that "it's just me" feeling too.

Bisou hope you are feeling better too.

Thanks for asking Helms, I am! The itching has pretty much completely stopped, and the pain is diminishing too. I am also being super religious now about making sure DS is getting Daktarin in his mouth every 4 hours (tricky at night as he sleeps really well) and after BF I give him about 1/4tsp of sterilised water just to flush out the milk from his mouth a bit before rubbing the gel around his mouth (doctor said this was a good idea). I'm also not using the Daktarin on my nipples anymore as it was keeping them a bit moist, but have moved to the Nilstat liquid (after washing nipples and drying with tissues) as it seems to dry well after application. Ironically the cheap brand of disposable breast pads are also better, as they don't have the moisture barrier. And I'm washing my nipples after each feed too. Mibbes I'm currently doing an 'amazon' with my boobs having some airing time - it really helps I think. Although I think my next door neighbour might have caught a glimpse!

Morning fellow Amazons! LOL at Bisou's neighbour getting a glimpse- my living room faces out onto the street and although there aren't too many passers-by I'm sure the postie, the bin men etc have all had an eyeful! Airing definately helps and I agree about the Daktarin cream not being brilliant, it makes my nipples all soft too (I want tough!!) and it keeps the crack moist so I don't put it over the crack now. I then sit/empty dishwasher/MN in all my glory. What a bloody palava I tell you.

Mibbles my bf support group was good, it's nice to just get advice (and sympathy!) every week. The BFC and the MW seem to think my latch on the right is fine now and that it's just a matter of healing now for the crack. It's still sore though. I tried numbing it with ice before I put him on last night but it definately made it more sore- baaad idea! I am going to persevere for a wee while longer and if it just doesn't heal or show signs of improvement then I really will have to just abandon ship on the right! He really does give me odd looks now- he lies on his pillow, muslin around his neck like a wee king, kicking his legs rythmically with a sort of 'huh! huh! huh! huh!' noise. Roughly translated from the Baby for 'Hurry! up! hurry! up!'

Kiwi hope your meds are kicking in.

PBO and Helms thank you for your stories of hope! This thread is of great comfort I must say- so many women have trouble with bf- just because it's natural doesn't necessarily mean it comes naturally...

Ladies who ditched the creams, it's v interesting you think things have improved. I was advised to use lansinoh by 3 midwives and an NCT counsellor, but then looked into it a bit and found that there isn't really any evidence for using it. I stopped and went for the air drying approach (think my postman got an eyeful too...) and things started to get better.

LizaJ - I used Lansinoh the first week because my nipples were so sore and cracked and I reckon it worked. The skin was really hard and bleeding before I'd put it on but afterwards it was softer and didn't hurt quite so much. I tried breastmilk but found it didn't do anything. It might have got better on its own but I felt like it did help (it could have been psychological though, I'll never know for sure!)
Helms - I'm so glad you're getting over it too, it helped a lot knowing that you had a DC the same age as mine and having the same issues. I hope your DS is growing big and strong
I should try the local BF group cos I reckon in other 3 months or so she'll be teething and I'm thinking that'll be another world of pain
Mamacita - I'm amazed your DS just makes noises if you make him wait!! DD will scream until I gag her with boob!!

Hey guys really sounds like things are improving! I think the meds are starting to make a small difference - nothing dramatic but definitely less after-feed pain, less itchiness and i think, though I'm not sure, that the initial pain on latch is slightly better too. Still toe-curling, but maybe only 3 toes rather than 5 per foot...

Interesting too about the daktarin. Did anyone else find that it sometimes actually stung a bit after application? Also, it's really hard when you aren't in your own house to apply and let it soak in - can't exactly do the Amazon thing round the supermarket eh?

Oh, I meant to add, I've also been incredibly strict about diet in the last 3 days - no sugar, yeast, wheat, diary... hardcore! I really hope it's helping or I'm suffering for nothing - am craving pizza and cake... Very sweetly DH is doing the diet too so I don't get too jealous

Mind you, if it does work, I'll be slightly scared to go back to eating normal bread and chocolate and glass of wine in case it comes back!!

Mamacita, Mibbles, how's it going..? Any improvement?

Hi Kiwi, how are things with you ?

I am far better now. Results from swab had no sign of thrush but it had gone by itself by the time I got results. Had a few pain-free days which was bliss, but the yesterday I slipped up and fed from the right twice in a row so left side got huge and really hard, then after I fed from it I got excruciating white nipple - kept heating on overnight so it seems to have cleared again, phew !
all in all things have improved loads and now that DS has reduced feeds from 7-9 per day to a mere 5 I am getting longer breaks in between each feed so feel like I have more freedom and it hurts less . I really feel like the light at the end of the tunnel is pretty much here and I am soooo glad I persevered through the bad days . I really hope you other ladies are experiencing less pain too

Oh that's fantastic Mibbes, I'm so pleased for you! I'm also heading the right way - have got a second course of fluoconazole (maybe i'll learn to spell it eventally..) but the pain is hugely improved. Only problem is now DD has got some kind of snuffles and is VERY fussy with feeding so now I'm fretting she's not getting enough... if it's not one thing it's another, eh??

Hi ladies! So pleased to see the Nipple Support Thread resurrected, was wondering how everyone was doing! Mibbles great that your light at the end of the tunnel is just about there and that you didn't need fluconazole. Kiwi sounds like things are improving for you , too; hope the second course helps. Thrush is so persistent isn't it. Argh! Baby Mamacita had a cold a while back and he was so faffy with his feeds- poor guy could barely breathe! You can use saline drops (from chemist) to loosen up nasal mucous, or apparently breastmilk squirted up his or her shnoz works too! I also sat him in his swing in the bathroom and had a loooooong hot steamy shower. I don't know if it worked but it was good to feel I was doing something for him!

As for me well the left continues to be fine and dandy now the Evil Thrush has gone but that right crack has just stuck around. I think the latch is better now on that side, and I've had a BFC check it many times, but this crack just will not heal. So a bit of MN/googling and I decided my last ditch effort will be those silverette nipple covers. Bit new agey for me but I'm desperate! They are supposed to create an antibacterial environment so healing can happen faster. Well they cost £5 more than another tube of Lansinoh (I've given up the Lansinoh now) and I thought it was worth a shot. They arrived yesterday and I put one (Only need one- should have asked for a discount!!) on yesterday and so far the cut seems shallower- it won't seal along the edges now, it's too deep [wince] but it seems to be healing- I really really hope so. My little guy is now 12 weeks (3 months out of the WHO's exclusive 6 down halleluja!) and if these silver bionic nipples don't work then that really really will be it for the right boob. It deserves a holiday!

Hi, sorry for late post on this thread. Just thought I could add to all the good advice offered already that I found grapefruit seed extract tablets helpful (taken during and after a course of fluconazole) in getting rid of horrible symptoms described by many of you. Hope your bf is pain free very soon. Good luck

Monster thanks for the tip.

Kiwi IKWYM about there always being something ! DS keeps pulling at the breast and throwing his head back - OUCH ! I am managing to feed in public (well at friends' houses) and no longer scream/cry, so good progress

Mama LOL at your bionic nipples, hope you get some relief with that crack soon, every time you describe it I wince as I can only imagine how bad that must be. I've only had small cracks and they are bad enough. Well done you for continuing through the pain

I'm thinking maybe there's a market for bionic nipples that also, I dunno, make the tea, do the laundry etc.

Kiwi sound good! lol

Well I must say the bionic nipple is doing the trick- the crack is so nearly gone! [weeping with hysterical happiness]

Great to hear things are slowly getting better for many of us- hope this thread has helped others as much as it has me... x

MamacitaGordita that is great news! Just out of interest, how is it healing? (has it gone back to how it was before, or does it look a bit different now?) Still trying to work out whether what happened to me was an isolated incident or more common...

Good to hear that things seem to be improving for most people. I'm sure it'll be (relatively) plain sailing from now on!

TMI alert!

LizaJ the crack was deep along the underside of my nipple where it joins the areola but slightly to the left, and it was very deep- it is healing upwards rather than closing back up along its edges where it opened up. So my nipple is now... kind of longer?! A new shape, like what you described. Weirdly the (relatively) problem-free left nipple is pretty flat compared to the right, and I thougt if I was going to have trouble it'd be on that side, not the more prominant nipple. Which is now even more prominant! So I am wonky but I do not care! I totally heart my silver nipples- it'd be great to get some research done into them and see if they work for lots of women, whether it was a coincidence with me, whether it's the fact my nipple isn't squished by bra/pad, or whether silver's antibacterial properties really are the reason... etc...
x

Hi ladies,

I thought that I had beaten the dreaded thrush but now am not so sure. Infact I don't know what to think... internal pains have gone but am still so sore. . Latch has been checked by several people. HV convinced I need fluconozale; GP says it is now just a bacterial infection and won't prescribe the tablets. Had very unpleasant time trying to discuss it with him.

Glad to hear that some of you are feeling so much better. For any of you that have beaten thrush. Did the Daktarin/ fluconozale sort things out completely or did you have residual soreness? Am interested in the idea of silverettes. Are they supposed to work for soreness as well as cracks?

Thanks. One day I will write a post that is not about thrush. Have become a thrush bore!

Helms my heart goes out to you- can you see a different GP? Talk to your HV again? It is so tricky isn't it when you sort of feel it is you making all the HCP decisions; 'is it still thrush?' 'do I need fluconazole?' etc!

The silverettes aka Bionic Nips are meant to harness the antibacterial qualities of silver and as those bastard thrushies are bacteria my guess is that it would help with surface thrush- if it were deep in the milk ducts/lactiferous sinuses then it'd do bugger all probably. But your lack of deep breast pain would maybe indicate that if it's still around it's not deep inside IYSWIM. Perhaps your GP would give you some Daktarin cream if he thinks it's not deep-rooted?

Have you gone down the diet/acidophilus/wash all your bras and towels at 60/wear a new one every day route?

Really hope you manage to crack it, I realy do. It's taken me ages too. x

Thank you, Mama. Have had Daktarin cream for some time(think the HV point is if it was going to sort things, it would have done by now). Have been washing everything at 60 degrees etc. Apparently bacterial infections can go hand in hand with thrush so am sure GP is right but perhaps the HV is too when she says she thinks the thrush could still be there. Who knows? Have seen a couple of GPs and have had several different prescriptions.

What worries me is that the idea of giving up breastfeeding is starting to creep into the conversation (not on my part) and I feel so sad. Cannot believe that this is impossible to sort out. Would like to have the option of carrying on bfing for as long as I want but at the moment am just trying to get to as close to the six months mark as I can. HV very supportive and am going to see her again later in the week so we'll see what she says. Is so frustrating, isn't it? Am so pleased things seem to be getting better for you.

Helms get the silverettes. It's worth a shot if giving up is starting to creep into the equation. They are an expense at £15 but like I said, it's £5 more than another tube of Lansinoh which we all merrily buy.

Although bollocks to the 'bf is free' idea- I have spent a fortune on breastpads, a cushion, bras, muslins, Lansinoh, Kamillosan, silverettes... lol

Keep the faith Helms you have done so well for your little baba.

I'm looking into the bionic nips... they look like an antibacterial breast shell - much better than the plastic tennis balls I ended up using! There is very little research in this area (shells in general, let alone bionic ones) but I'm trying to piece together what there is and will post an article about it on the site. I shall cite your experience, MamacitaGordita! Hope things improve soon, Helms.
x

Thinking about your thrush problem Helms (deep breath, try not to rant)... I can't believe you are having trouble getting prescriptions for it, and that health professionals are starting to suggest you might want to give up instead. Thrush can be notoriously persistent - I've just been reading a case study in the Journal of Human Lactation about a woman who had to take fluconazole (+ use nystatin) for 6 weeks before she kicked it (an initial course helped a bit but didn't completely sort it). Cracks took several months to heal but she was prescribed pain killers so that she didn't have to stop breastfeeding. Hopefully this won't be the case for you, but thought you'd be interested to hear about it.

Really surprised at the problems people have had with their GPs. Will be posting about this (+ thrush) soon too (grrr harrumph etc...)