i can't go on with breast feeding, it's been 16 WEEKS now and there's still no click and she's STILL TINY

[Aitch]

i saw a wee three week old baby the other day, just feeding and feeding. no clawing, no grabbing at the breast and yanking it out of her mouth, no unlatching, just chomp chomp om nom nom thanks mum. and it made me cry.

so i think i might have to jack it in.

Quite possibly Aitch.
With DS we were treated but it came back slightly, only so slightly that he was fretful, pulling off, gassy etc but not enough for me to feel any real pain or him to have any symptoms, I shoved a bit of the daktarin gel I had from last time on us both after a couple of feeds he was much better.
Fingers crossed!

Hey Aitch, Don't post much, but I have been in your boat so... Sounds like you're having a nightmare - well done for getting as far as you have (lots of people would have fallen at the first hurdle). Don't feel bad, you are not "shit" - you're amazing Mum who wants the best for her baby. I was in a similar situation this time last year and ended up mixed feeding for six months, which worked for me. DS put on weight straight away and settled down a lot. I cried buckets the first time I had to give him formula though. Not what I wanted at all but 3 HVs , a BF counsellor and the GP couldn't get him putting on weight (latch fine - milk never kicked in after traumatic birth). I, too grew to hate my breast pump. In fact I did a little dance when it melted in the microwave eventually and called it a day - it never increased the amount of milk I produced at all.

Whatever decision you make, don't feel bad about it. You have to do what is best for your baby but also your family, which means you getting a little bit of sleep and not being in a situation where you're so upset you're crying at random babies in public! Believe me, you're not the only one who has gone through this and I know it seems like such an enormous thing at the moment but in a year's time you won't even be thinking about it. Whether you go onto formula or find a solution and keep BF your LO will be running around and chatting to you and eating real food by next Christmas. Although it's a mare, this is only temporary. Don't torture yourself - you've done your best and that is more than good enough I promise!

thank you lolfish and all... i've just spoken to marsy on the phone and she's suggested skin to skin in the sling (which is a bit more practical at thae mo than lounging) and more bastard pumping. and i'll take the meds.

i will do everything in a half-hearted manner and report back.

Aitch nothing more to add really other than to offer some support. My DD was 9 weeks prem and only weighed 6lb 4oz at 16 weeks and at 10 weeks corrected was 7lb 4oz.

Feeding was difficult from day one - 9 weeks of exclusive pumping then carried on pumping and feeding for a further 4 weeks as she couldn't feed from my left breast. Even after that it took a few more weeks before it got easier. DD never fed more than 5-10 min and has put on an average of 3.5 oz a week since birth - sometimes this was 6oz in a week others she put on 1oz, stayed the same or on some occassions lost.

However at a year old and a LOT of perseverence she is still BFed and is doing brilliantly developmentally, which of course I attribute mainly to by breastmilk and my excellent parenting skills . She is still tiny at 13lb 12oz but tbh I really DO NOT care anymore. And I feel sad that I wasted precious time with my DD worrying for all those months about her size when my beautiful healthy baby was staring me in the face all along.

She is healthy and happy and I can still cuddle her (well when she lets me!) like a 3mth old - none of my friends can still do that with their huge'Normal' sized babies. Cherish the positives of having a smaller baby - I ache to hold the 2lb 1oz DD that was on NICU just one more time she seems huge now to me!

Another plus is that clothes last longer!

But being flippant aside I know how difficult it is and how frustrating it is to have a baby that won't feed easily. I remember going to breast feeding groups and sitting there in tears because DD was taking over 30 min to latch on then coming off after a mere 5 min. It did get easier tho (I think around 5 months) and is now an absolute doddle.

Whatever you decide to do be proud that you have given your DD the BEST start in life. YOU have made her grow. YOU have given her immunity a whopping great big boost for life. Whatever you choose as the right fpath for you and your DD from here on in you have already done an amazing job as her mummy and I have no doubt will continue to do so.

((((Big hugs))))

Hi Aitch,
just wanted to add my support. Have been following your story (hope this does not sound too stalkerish) because I have used your BLW forum a lot and because you sound pretty much in the same boat that I was in with DS (not prem, but he had sucking issues and I had supply issues). The low supply, switch nursing and frequent feeding sounds v v familiar. It is a bugger to put it mildly.

If you have had enough and want to give up BF, don't feel guilty! But it does sound like you do not want to give up BF and are only considering it because you feel you have no other options.

I have 2 suggestions to try FWIW.
(1) If you haven't already done this, increase the domperidone to max dose on Jack Newman website (think this is 160mg/day or even more?). Do this for a trial period of 2 weeks and see if it makes any difference to either DD feeding behaviour or her weight gain. I never did this, but in retrospect wish that I had tried it.
(2) (this is what I did at 4mo) consider ditching the pump, feeding as frequently as poss, and gradually reducing formula to zero (keep an eye on the weight and the wet and dirty nappies if you do this though). Pumping does not work for everyone and for some low supply mums it may stop the baby being quite satisfied at the breast, thus requiring formula topups in a selfdefeating cycle. Until 4mo I was pumping all the time and feeding EBM in a bottle (and sometimes formula) and it just all got too much and I had a week without pumping or giving any bottles and what happened to DS weight gain? It was exactly the same - 3.5-4oz/week. So I carried on EBF till 6 months, much happier for ditching the blasted pump, and once I started weaning (BLW using your blog as a guide ) everything was suddenly fine. TBH I did have to feed quite frequently (every 2 hours including at night) until he started weaning but am now still BF at 10mo and it is all immeasurably easier now. He has risen to the dizzy heights of the 25th centile and has even learnt how to do the breast compressions himself when he wants the milk to come faster

This is the hardest time - your DD is now big enough to start needing a fair amount of milk and your supply is only just keeping up by dint of frequent feeding. You CAN do this, but be warned: if your situation is anything like mine, she may be BFing frequently until she starts weaning.

thanks all (special applause to imsally for her name).

actually... things seem to have taken a bit (let's not exaggerate) of a turn for the better, at least in the sense that we are back at our usual crappy level of feeding rather than the no feeding at all. we're both on the thrush meds but i can't say its' that yet tbh as we only got them yesterday.

i think after speaking with marsy i realised that things had got so tense i just maybe needed to build up a new association for both of us so i've, er, changed the seat i tend to feed in. i know, it's ridiculous, but on kellymom it says that your let-down can associate with things you do before a feed and i just wondered if it's possible to build up bad associations as well as good?

i think i need to do everything else that has been suggested as well (including like Sally says give up bloody pumping asap for my own sanity) but for the moment we're back to being reasonably rubbish rather than completely, and i think i can handle that for the next few days.

one day at a time, sweet darlings...

thank you all again, and HAPPY CHRISTMAS!

Glad you have a plan to keep you sane for now [fsmils].

I think there's a fair chance you ciuld be right about the let-down. If you're tense then is definitely has an effect. My output at work used to dip massively if I was in a hurry and stressed about work, because I struggled to get a let down. I've also seen really stressed mums with babies thrashing around who look like they're frustrated waiting for a let-down. Some people find relaxation tapes or that sort of thing helpful for calming themselves.

Conversely, I have a friend who always starts to leak when she goes into a well known chain of shops, because she once heard a newborn cyring in there and it made her leak. These days entering the shop is enough, it seems [fmmm].

Happy Christmas to you and all your family !!

was it marks and sparks? i bet it was. it's one of the few places I get a let-down. [spiritual home]

Merry Christmas Aitch!

Nah, Toys-r-us .

Sorry about my terrible typing, btw

Now I remember! It was Van Morrison and a glass of guinness that helped. and not that horrid kitchen chair in the draught.

YAY for things getting better - Hang on in there Aitch! You can do this! (I loved it when people said this to me, as I had very low "milk confidence" at the time)

It is def true about the let-down associations. I got v stressed about it all, built up all sorts of neg associations and the only cure seemed to be reading funny MN threads on my laptop to distract me!Favourite old weepie DVDs also seemed good for some reason - maybe try those, if LO will not be distracted? Not the tense sort of film but an "uplifting" sort of film that you feel a strong emotional connection with. Or maybe play a funny game with your toddler to distract you?

Also if slow letdown is a problem try hot shower / warm compresses / babywearing in front carry, before BF-ing. Apols if you have already tried this but it helped me. Seems to encourage boobs to get the milk flowing faster.

How are you getting on today Aitch? So sorry to hear you're struggling but glad things are improving slightly.
Agree with everyone who said 16 weeks is fantastic, especially for a premature baby

we are mostly fine in the Breastfeeding Chair of Loveliness (beside the kitchen) but everywhere else is a bit ropey. it's hilarious how indiscreet i am with my stupid tits these days.

lol at breastfeeding chair of loveliness

Aitch

I'm Lin from your forum and was having a cruise round here to see what was occurring with you and DD2. And its spookily similar to what I am going through with DD2. All the behaviours you describe sound too scarily similar......

Luckily I do have loads of milk but DD2 does all that annoying business, is not feeding well and is beginning to slip down the centiles. Her poo is resolutely & irrevocably green. I am doing breast compressions (have actually bruised the right one through over-enthusiasm/grim determination), am obsessively checking latch etc....

I think her latch is crap but can't keep her on long enough once I do get her to get it right. Its making feeding a stressful business all round. Like you I can't retire into darkness to feed her (or if I do, DD1 pursues us in with her Thomas torch) and feeding her at night whilst asleep is a non-starter - she purses her lips and turns her head away without waking.

I cracked out formula this weekend - partly to get something into her but mostly to give me a break from an experience that is making me weepy, suicidal and murderous. But she won't take that either. B/F was ok with DD1 so can't work out what I am doing so badly this time round.

So, no advice to offer but I so get where you are at. Big hugs to the both of you from the both of us - lets just get them to sweet potato batons however we can......

Oh - and meant to say we've just done the thrush treatment too - but there's been no improvement here. Hope it helps for you.....

oh you poor thing. weepy, suicidal AND murderous? yup, yup, and yup. and a bit hysterical and also a bit embarrassed.

have put a post in BLW forum for you, in random thoughts. let's chum along.

forum.babyledweaning.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5295 here it is.

How's it going Aitch?

I should be working on my creative writing but thought I'd procrastinate a bit and see how you and the Breastfeeding Chair of Loveliness are doing.

cheers marsy. it was going better but it's not been a good night tonight so far, i think the poor little scrap has colic. swollen tight tummy, special high-pitched yelp, absolutely bloody FURIOUS with everyone. (and that's just me. )