If you were definitely going to breastfeed when pregnant and didn't (or didn't for very long) once your baby was born

[hunkermunker]

Is there anything that could've been said or done to help you to breastfeed for longer?

I have found reading some of these posts really upsetting....I am horrified that my awful experience is not uncommon

My first ds was a very tiny poorly baby (IUGR) and I desperately wanted to bf him. I was 2 days in hospital. Had about 14 different midwives each telling me to try another position and shoving my poor babys very sore and very moulded head onto my (empty) breasts.

In the end they had to hand express as the electric pumps werent getting anything out of me and what they did manage to express was blood as I didnt have any milk....I had retained placental tissue which wasnt discovered til sometime later and I have since found out that it reduces/stops milk production. I can honestly say that having those awful women pummelling my breasts was worse and more painful than giving birth

Needless to day, bf was a DISASTER. My baby should have been in SCBU and I should have been on IV antibiotics and then MAYBE we would have stood a chance. He had prolonged jaundice and could not suck and his weight plummted and he was admitted to hospital on day 4 with dehydration. FF through an NG tube.

He was 4 and a half pounds at this point.

OK, deap breath, here goes.... the 1st 6 months of my ds1 life were the worst of mine. There. I said it. I was so very traumatised by my (and his!) experiences that I developed late onset PND and decided not to have any more children and even if I did I certainly wouldnt even try bf again.

I now have a beautiful 7 week old baby boy

Despite what I went though with ds1 I did try again, but didnt succeed. I managed 10 days. He was a good healthy weight but unfortunately I have anaemia due to loss of blood at delivery (which I now know inhibits milk production) and he would not latch on - 3 different midwives told me my latch was fine, but I know it wasnt - he was getting very fed up!

Despite 2 midwives telling me it was pointless as he would get no goodness from the bm due to having ff, I tried mix feeding for a while but he eventully refused the breast completely. Another midwife told me that establishing bf should only take 48 hours!

I have very mixed feelings about ff...without it my ds1 wouldnt be here so I am grateful and my ds2 is doing very well, but I do feel a failure that I have tried twice and not succeeded either time.

When are women going to get better support???????????????????

Starlight....thank you so much for your lovely post. I certainly know that you nor anyone else in our lovely group will judge me

Its been 5 and a half years since ds1 was born and I cried as I typed it

There was so much more I could have told you.....I didnt even mention the horrible nurses and paeds who informed me (very helpfully as I had no milk) that my ds1 should be bf. Or the 3 different HV we had one of whom told me to put him in his pram outside snd let him cry.......HE WAS UNDER 5 POUNDS AND WAS BORN DURING A HEATWAVE!!!!!!!!!! [ANGRY] [SHOCK]

We couldnt let him cry as it would tire him so much he wouldnt even take the 20-40 mls of ff that we struggled to get into him..he took an hour to take 30mls....eventuaaly after me telling them for 6 weeks that there was something wrong with him the HV agreed he was still jaundiced and sent us to the GP who sent us to the hospital who did some bloods - VERY reluctantly.

I got a phone call from the consultant haemotologist the next day to tell me to bring Tom in NOW - strep infection in his blood. I honestly thought we were going to lose him. After a week on IV antibiotics he picked up and his feeding improved

I am still so sad and angry at the "care" my poor baby recieved...I was a first time mum and knew nothing so trusted these people.

I do find this thread comforting in a sense because it is good to know I am not alone in feeling the way I do but I am also so very sad at some of these stories....

I keep coming back to this thread and feel so sorry reading all these awful experiences.

Can we get anything positive out of this? Is there anyone collating experiences and advising the health profession nationally?

I realise just the growth of mumsnet in the last few years may well be a major improvement. I recommend it to anyone I know who is pregnant because I really wish I had known about it with DD1, and I had such an easy ride compared to the majority of posters here. We dont want to be reading the same sorts of posts 5 years from now, so what should we be doing to help?

Haven't given up bf yet, but so close on various occasions - luckily my baby and milk supply weren't distracted by a couple half-days of formula.

I could rant for ages but the #1 point I posted elsethread: this crap advice: "From practically every pregnancy/baby book on the planet, including all the NHS guidance: young bf babies want feeding around every 3 hours, after the first couple weeks.

Yes, except for the hourly feeds from 5am to 9am, the two-hourly ones from around 9 to 3pm, and the constant feeding from 6pm to midnight.

All the other mums of up-to-3-monthers I know are experiencing the same, so what's with this 3-hour fiction???"

A GP and a NCT bf counsellor who could actually recognise a nipple that was cracked all over and not insist that one nipple swollen and invaginated like a raspberry is 'normal' would also be good.

I suggest writing lots of letters to ministers for health and local MPs - an MP only needs about 5 letters for something to become top of their agenda...

Not sure if I should be on this thread as we did just about manage in the end but:

Had a sleepy, jaundiced baby who wasn't really interested in feeding.

MWs at hospital grabbed me and baby and tried to put us together. Was very rough and rushed and the last thing I needed while feeling fragile after unpleasant birth. Wasn't allowed out until someone had seen baby latch but as he would fall asleep after 5 mins and it took 10 mins for anyone to answer the buzzer this was physical impossibility. No-one told me baby falling asleep after 5 mins was in any way anything to worry about just to ring buzzer again next time

Was very lucky on return home to get MW who explained how regularly babies need to feed and got me setting an alarm and waking DS then expressing and syringing to finish feed when DS fell asleep too quickly. She stayed several hours getting us properly sorted then I never saw her again after that day.

At around 2 weeks DS developed colic (or what could be argued, if I'd known at the time, a demand for a cluster feed in the evening). Went to bfing group but the MW/ bfing counsellor hadn't turned up that day and no-one was able to offer any help. Had mobile numbers of 2 MW/ bfing support workers (they gave talks in the hospital, can't remember what their actual job title was), no answer, left messages and they never called back. When I eventually saw a MW again was told that it was probably too much milk giving DS stomach ache and to make sure he went 3 hours between feeds in the evening. At this stage he would scream continuously, feed, then scream continuously again until the next feed. Never managed to get to 3 hours, always felt guilty and that it was my fault he screamed so much.

Without the one decent MW don't think we would have stood a chance and it was still a bit touch and go. What would help - more like her, telling people who yank new mothers and babies about til they're both crying that midwiferey is not the best career choice for them and the support that should be there actually being there.

Someone jokingly said at our anti-natal classes that breastfeeding support workers should be at Tesco in the formula aisle at 2am as this is when and where they're really needed and that is so true.

notcitrus - if an NCT breastfeeding counsellor saw your nipples in that state and heard how painful they were and told you this was 'normal' then you need to complain.

This is deffo not a 'normal' response of an NCT bfc, and as we belong to an organisation that takes 'quality' of our bf support seriously, then please let NCT know, with details. I can promise you something will be done.

I feel really sad reading all these comments as i had a v. positive expericance with my PFB! It has also open my eyes to how many problems can be encounted with BF.

I feel also it has made me more understnading and less judgemental of others who have not mangaged to BF. As I am ashamed to say i have been very judgemental in the past, thinking they didnt try hard enough and other nasty thoughts.(sad) (blush)

tiktok - thinking back, the nct woman didn't say anything definite on that, we figured it was part of the bad latch and gave me lots of useful tips on positioning (and tea and cake which was possibly even more reassuring) - there was a lot to take in from her so i could have missed some of what she said.

it was the 12-day discharging midwife and gp who said it looked normal.

may be seeing another nct counsellor (as described on baby cafe site) tomorrow suggested by local midwife-bfc who referred to her as a 'lactation consultant'. no idea if she will have any better ideas for getting rid of intractable breast thrush - not to mention problems in getting nervous gps to prescribe outside the bnf. i shouldn['t need to say 'i have a doctorate in medical research' just to get whatseems to be common treatment for a common condition!

Yes, I wish I could have been reassured that I WOULD make enough milk. My babies were 10.4 & 10.5 lb and I thought I didn't have enough milk. I was paranoid that they weren't getting enough. I tried to express, to see how much I gave, but could only get less than an oz. I took this as proof that I was not producing enough, so I breast fed and gave them bottles as well, to top up. I would feed them and they would be hungry again half an hour later, so I'd give a bottle since I thought it meant I didn't have any milk for them! Nobody ever tried to help me, or teach me anything. If I'd had this place then, I bet I'd have managed it. HV didn't seem to give a crap either way. My husband positively PUSHED me towards bottles because he felt the boys didn't get enough to eat from me.

That said, I mix-fed for several months each time, but it just worked that over time I gave less and less and the bottles got more and more. They'd suckle me and then let go, there was nothing there for them so they got a bottle. tbh, I was more of a dummy than lunch.

I did better with ds2 than ds1, but it was basically the same in the end.

yes if people werent so rushed off their feet at the hospital and could spend time with me.
He wouldnt latch on for first 2 days, I was told it was cause he was mucusy from c-section. by 3rd night he had latched on a couple of times and I asked the midwife to wake me every 3 hours (I had been doing this previous nights to express) but she said no need, he would wake me up when he was hungry. turns out he didnt, he slept for 9 hours, woke up starving and fretful. couldnt get him to latch on at all. I had so many different people trying to help me over the past few days, but if one had the time to have sat down with me they would have identified earlier that he had a half toungue tie which is why he wasnt latching on. We eventually got it to work with a nipple shield, and i went home. By this point though, he was already dehydrated and i was back in hospital this time baby a&e 2 nights later with him on a rehydration drip. the hospital didnt have nipple shields despite being a maternity hospital as well so I gave him his first formula bottle until I could get my partner to bring it. They also didnt change my sterlising fluid i didnt know it needed changing every 24 hours, and so i ended up with mastitus from the nipple shield. In the end i just gave up, i just wanted him to be hydrated and well fed. Still upset about it 10 weeks later

Barbara - you describe a series of events that amount to very poor postnatal care indeed. I am sad for you - it's horrible to have been so misinformed like that.

Have you thought about complaining? It might help.

It has been amazing to read all these posts. When it happened to me, I felt as if I was alone. No-one seemed to understand that it might upset me to give up. In the end after various problems, I mixed-fed and that worked for a long time. In a way all I wanted was for my friends and family, gp hv to acknowledge that bfng was important to me, not just something that hadn't worked, lets just forget about it dear shall we. Then I was able to move forward and enjoy feeding him, whether it was milk from a cow or a human, it was still milk from me, and in my arms.

lentilmousakka is right - access is imperative!

I had problems, namely with the latch. Read a post a few days ago that there is a video on You Tube re: latching on.

What an absolutely brilliant idea.

swanriver- i felt exactly the same.

Reading all these posts has made me feel better, but also sad that there are so many other people who have had bad experiences like I have.
What would have made a difference to me, like so many other people, is not being given bad advice by midwives and hvs and not having my poor newborn baby shoved against my breast so that she became too distressed to even want to be held by my chest for the first few days.

My story is like a lot of others - she couldn't latch on at all because my nipples were too flat (apparently) so I ff her in the hospital with a cup. Then when we got home we used nipple shields but they hurt loads :c. Also I thought she wasn't getting enough as she ate all the time (now thanks to MN I know this is normal). when I told HV she told me to top up with formula which I began doing at 3 weeks - needless to say that was the beginning of a downhill slide.

8 weeks later I am still mixed feeding but my nipples feel like they are on fire and no one can seem to tell me why. I feel so sad that I started giving her formula at all and regret it everytime I do it. I just wish I had better advice and help when I needed it and feel like next time I will know so much more what to do and who to go to for help.

Also I totally agree with what swanriver says that this is a deeply emotional thing that it is hard for others to understand. My DP just thinks that as long as she is eating and growing its all fine whereas I feel like a failure, especially when in a room of bfing mothers

Only read the OP. I'm still upset that I didn't bf my DS. I believe that if I'd received the right support in hospital would have made a huge difference.

I didn't get the chance to have proper skin to skin with DS until about 2 hours after he was born. No real medical reason for it, they just kept taking him off me to clean him, do my stitches etc. By the time we had some skin to skin the poor thing was screaming. The mw then plonked him on my boob, ticked the 'breastfeeding at birth' box and said I would need to be admitted as he was fussing a bit (he didn't even latch on).

I was sent up to the ward at around 3am, DH sent home and left with a screaming baby all night. For three days and nights the mw came around to help me try and bf/hand express milk to feed my baby every three hours. He was usually screaming with hunger by the time they showed up. It was a different MW everytime and they each had their own ideas about what was going wrong, that they shared with me while manhandling my boobs.

In the end, both DS and I never really got the hang of it. I think he latched on properly once. I eventually decided to mix feed just so I could get the hell out of the hospital. I expressed to feed him for about a month but it was really difficult to keep up my supply.

What would have made a difference?

1. A MW/bf counsellor coming round to help me figure out how to get DS to latch on at the appropriate time (i.e. not when he was screaming with hunger) and being able to spend quality time with me to figure out what was wrong.
2. Being referred to the excellent bf support group that took place while I was in hospital
3. Proper advice on how to maintain milk supply if expressing full time.

Sorry I haven't had time to read everyone else's posts. I know some people have had really traumatic experiences.

This thread has brought back some sad memories. I was determined to BF my DS, all through my pregnancy I believed it was something that I would do without much of a problem.
When the time came it never worked out that way. After help from MWs, HVs & some lovely MNs I have still never BF my DS. He had EBM for about 7 weeks and is now totally FF at 13 wks.
If it had been explained to me just how difficult it could be to establish BF and how long it could take, I would have persevered. Flat(ish) nipples, and poor DS having my nipple pushed in to his mouth while he was screaming for food really didn't help. I was too upset to carry on.
Agree waith an earlier post about having BF support classes for partners/husbands too. My DP didn't understand why I was upset.

I find it very depressing that I am not alone with my horrendous experience of trying to bf my first baby.

He was delivered by CS and was very sleepy. I needed help to latch him on, but when I pressed my buzzer it would often take over an hour for anybody to turn up to "help". By which time DS1 would be hysterical. The MWs would then try that shoving him on to the boob thing (does that ever work?).

The MWs contradicted each other and were really rough with me. Which made me tense and probably put Ds1 off feeding.

The hospital wouldn't let me leave until feeding was established. After 7 days I nearly had a breakdown and decided to bottle feed him. TBH I would have sold my soul to the devil to get out of hospital at this point.

I was devestated at not being able to BF and I feel it contributed massively to me developing PND.

What would have helped BF is being told the truth about difficulties BEFORE having my baby. I would have been much mentally stronger to deal with it. I also think learning to BF in hospital is crap. Yes, breastfeeding is natural but it is not instinctive.

Fast forward to DS2 and I had done my research and decided I wanted no midwives involved in helping my baby latch on and got out of the hospital as soon as humanly possible. I latched him on myself and breast fed for over a year, no probs.

The crackfox, your story is so similar to mine. I had a horrible birth and then no-one would help me feed.

They also wouldn't let me out until he was feeding, so I bottle fed.

What had never occured to me (why they didn't tell me) is that I could have returned to BF or I could have expressed my milk. The guilt lasted a long time.

I have just found out I am pregnant with my dc2 so am determined to be stronger and BF.

I've only just found this board. I am feeling very weepy as I read it.

I breastfed my first child for 5 weeks, but finally gave up when I was hospitalised after getting repeated mastitis and an infection in my (very badly cracked) nipples. Before he was born I had never anticipated doing anything but breastfeeding, however I found it very difficult from the start. I have very flat nipples and my abby didn;t latch on well, despite lots of help. I saw three different breastfeeding counsellors during that time (one hospital one, one from the community midwife team and one from the NCT). I didn't use bottles / formula, and I fed my baby with a syringe and a cup, then finally pumped and expressed only, as I found feeding so terribly, terribly painful and upsetting in the end. I don't know what else I could have done to make it work . After 5 weeks i developed an abcess in my left breast and had to go into hospital. That was the end of me breastfeeding. It was a very upsetting time.

During my second pregnancy I got lots of advice and information about breastfeeding and potential problems. I made sure I had good skin to skin contact with my baby as soon as he was born and happily I got a very good latch going almost immediately. However, I still got terrible mastitis almost as soon as my milk came in. Once again I saw various breastfeeding counsellors. Everyone I saw - the midwives, the hv etc - were really lovely and supportove. However, I still ended up in hospital with a severe infection in my left breast. This time I had to stop when my son was only 2 weeks old. I was terrified of the whole thing going on for weeks and weeks again, and of getting depressed like last time

It absolutely breaks my heart that breastfeeding was so difficult for me. I feel cheated that what should be a natural (OK, possibly difficult at first, but essentially natural) thing was so horrednously traumatic for me, and that my babies have missed out because of that.

I honestly don't know what I or anyone else could have done differently to make it work

I just wish someone had shown me how to do it because we just couldnt get the hang of it on our own

Possibly. With dd1 I really gave it my best shot but I really wasn't making much milk and she had trouble staying latched on.

MW's were giving quite conflicting advice. I even saw a BF counsellor who I felt was trying out lots of different theories which confused me further. She seemed to view dd and I as a bit of a conundrum.

The last straw came when I was told to keep dd 'woken up' during her feeds by sytematically stripping her off so she felt cold (and thereby unlikely to fall asleep). She cried and was was terribly upset by this and I thought it was unkind and horrible

That made me very angry. I lost confidence in their advice at that point. Dd was losing a lot of weight and was looking terribly thin and unhappy. Formula rectified all those problems.

I do believe in BF, but not at any price.