If you were definitely going to breastfeed when pregnant and didn't (or didn't for very long) once your baby was born

[hunkermunker]

Is there anything that could've been said or done to help you to breastfeed for longer?

I think I was unlucky with dd1 in that the bfc was on holiday right when I needed support most. It was a difficult delivery with forceps and ventouse, she was very sleepy and probably had a bad headache as a result of the ventouse so was very reluctant to latch. The only help I got from the midwives was grabbing her head and shoving it at my breast which just made her more distressed. There was also no communication between the midwives from shift to shift e.g. it was written in my notes that the problem was I had no milk which was rubbish. I was treated like a terrible mother just because I was having problems. It was a horrible, horrible time. I'm not sure what specifically could have been done differently apart from people being nicer to me as dd1 really didn't want to latch/suck but at a guess I think if I could have expressed some milk and cup-fed her to get her strength up before trying again we might have had more luck. When I suggested this though I was told the expressing facilities were only for babies in special care.

Dd2, on the other hand, is still being breastfed at nearly 7 months but then she was born in a different hospital with fabulous midwives.

There should probably be a law against MW's/BFC doing the 'grab a breast, grab baby's head, squoosh together, and hey presto you too can breastfeed' thing. I had my breasts manhandled by so many MW's I'm surprised they didn't end up looking like bowing balls.

Does that technique ever work?

Wow TeenyTinyTorya, your story could mirror mine with my dd. I also had flat nipples and was given nipple shield. I found it a nightmare and then my c-section wound burst and I was taken back to hospiatl as an emergency.

The hospital were absolutely appaling and I ended up with PND and trauma. So coupled with the BF feeding problems, the exhaustion of expressing etc, my GP came round and persuaded me to stop BF.

I still feel guilty nearly 7 years on especially as I have now successfully bf my other two. BUT it was different circumstances and I had better advice, was more prepared (I too had thought BF would be a piece of cake) and a better support system.

I also used Niplette as soon as the baby was born and it worked an absolute treat, I have never looked back. Not to say BF is easy, its not in the early weeks but now I am enjoying it.

My problems were probably the same as a lot of the posts on here really. I had always assumed that I would breast feed but my DS was born a year to the day almost of when my DS1 had been born (and died) at 20 weeks. I had ended up having a terrible labour after being induced, with every drug going, ending up in an emergency c section. Far from my pain free hypnobirth!

The hospital I was in was ridiculously busy and I don't ever really remember anyone showing me how to really start feeding other than putting DS at my breast. I rang the buzzer every time I tried to feed as DS would latch on for a minute then come off and not go back on or would fall asleep and stop feeding almost immediately. I ended up getting really anxious every time he needed to feed as I knew I'd have to ring the buzzer and get help. The trouble was, a midwife would latch him on and say that they would come back in a bit and check on me and then they wouldn't so then I would have to ring the buzzer again and end up explaining the whole thing to another midwife and then it would be repeated.

Once we were home after 3 days they noticed DS had lost over his 10% birthweight and took us into the smaller midwife lead unit but by this point I just wanted to be back at home with my DP. My boobs were constantly prodded and poked and they would tell me DS was latched on perfectly but was only gaining minute amounts of weight and I was still having all the same problems.

After about a week he screamed non stop for about 8 hours so my DP pretty much demanded I express some milk and we feed it in a bottle otherwise he was off down the supermarket to get him some formula. I was in tears and managed to express about 2 ounces and he drank that and slept contented.

From then on I expressed my milk for every feed as I tried to do a bit of bf too but it was too late then. I did express successfully until my DP went to work but my DS would never let me put him down on his own so I could pump. I did mix feed until last week actually (he is 14 weeks) when it's become apparent that despite 4 pumping sessions a day I couldn't even get 2oz!

I'm still a bit that I never managed to breastfeed properly but I really didn't enjoy it either when I had assumed I would. Whether that is because of the problems I had or not I don't know, all I know is I dreaded every feed and at least by expressing I managed to get some breast milk into him! Maybe also having a more supportive DP would have made a difference.

Hunkmunker I have had 2 terrible BF experiences.

DS didn't latch (and no one helped me; midwives at hospital or during home visit) and I was expressing every 2 hours from birth and syringe feeding him in the meantime. It took a private lactation consultant on my 6th day to come out and help me.

I got severe thrush on my breasts 4 times during BF him as well.

BF lasted 4months and it was mixed with FF.

If someone had helped me from birth and told me about cluster feeding and nursing strikes I may have continued longer.

DD latched brilliantly from birth but was tongue tied (I had NEVER heard about that) and after 8 PAINFUL weeks and severe mastitis it was noticed and fixed. By this point she would only feed with shields and my milk supply was interfered with.

BF lasted 3 1/2months and part of it was mixed.

In both cases I went to a birth centre for BF help, 2 different hospital BF support groups, Breastfeeding Network groups, paid someone to come out and help and called LL and NCT + loads of internet research.

I wish:
From birth I was coached on how to latch - not assume it "looked" right

Told of all things to look out for that could effect BF and have someone check if baby has it straight from birth (e.g. tongue tie, high palate etc)

Given a list of tips on how to help soothe sore nipples once damamged (eg jalonettes was a great tip I got about putting on scabbing nipples BUT I learnt about it over a week in and started hating BF as so painful!)

Hope this helps.

I knew I was going to breast feed. I was also going to be really arsey about people who bottlefed so it served me right really. I spent my pregnancy fantasising about holding the baby to my breast and imaging this perfect mother child image. My mother breast fed and never had any problems and I didn't know anyone who had had problems. I learnt what I could about it and it seemed pretty simple really - the more you feed the more you make and if it hurts your latch is wrong.

Then dd arrived. I had her in a midwife led birthing centre with experienced midwives and a very high (for London) rate of breast feeding at 6 months/ 1 yr. I only had 2 feeds with dd at the midwife led unit and both times she was hanging off the end of my nipple. It hurt. She was sleepy and went 6 hours the first night without feeding. When she did feed it hurt so I would take her off and try and relatch her and sometimes it would hurt less. I had a midwife see me every day for 12 days (a different one every day). So I had 12 lots of advice. Dd lost weight every day. I was even told to wake her every hour during the night using a kitchen timer. That was just stupid. I was a wreck afterwards and dd was too tired to latch on anyway. A lot of the midwives said I was feeding too much.

I then went to see a bfc when she was 6 days old. It was an enormous effort to get out the house and on a train to go with a baby who would nap for 15mins but would otherwise be crying desperately for milk. The BFC improved my latch (but I don't think it was terrible before). She was encouraging but not realistic. I went back to see her at 10 days and was told dd was fine and the latch was fine and she just appeared to want more because she could smell me "like sitting next to a packet of chocolate biscuits."

At 12 days having barely pooed and lost nearly 15% of her birth weight we were admitted.

What would have helped?

Honesty about how difficult and painful it could be.

Not having half a dozen different midwives offer contradictory advice. One advised nipple shields when both nipples were bleeding. The next one shouted at me for using them. And I got so sick of being told the baby was latched on correctly so it couldn't hurt. Yes, it bloody did. Both times.

A GP who would have treated the first baby for oral thrush when I infected her instead of telling me the medication I was getting was sufficient. At that point I stopped because the poor little thing was scraping at her mouth and crying non-stop.

A breastfeeding counsellor who would come to me, instead of expecting me to be able to drag myself, new baby and my painful Caesarian section scar to a clinic miles away in a couple of days.

Some advice about a plummeting milk supply with the second baby from the GP instead of "I don't really know. Just keep trying." I stopped with him when I realised I couldn't stay up half the night for weeks on end, pumping to try to get the supply up and look after both children.

I don't feel guilty. I know I tried until breaking point both times. But I'm still sad and I'm bloody angry. He has horrible eczema. I'm sure a breastfeeding counsellor would have cost the NHS less than the barrage of stuff we've anointed him with over the last couple of months.

One thing that could have helped me is people not thinking "what can I say to get her to keep trying". What I needed when I went to the BFC the last time (after hospital) was for her to acknoowledge what I'd been through and suggest I carry on with mixed feeding and come back once I was in a better emotional and physical state to address upping my supply and coming off the forumula.

Noone ever addressed the emotional side with me. It is an incredibly emotional place to be - all a newborn needs from her mother is milk and giving formula for the first time felt as bad as offering her a fag. Saying "just try to relax" is very unhelpful. Saying "you are going to be a great mother, this is just a small part of her life, and you are trying as hard as you can" is what is needed.

If that had been said I may have established a good enough relationship to have sought advice with dc2 and 3. As it was I'd had enough by then.

One other thing that would help (if help can't be had at home) is to rename breastfeeding cafes "clinics". The word cafe implies that all is good with the world there and mums happily feed while supping tea. When I went at 6 days there were lots of comments made about how good it was that I had made it there so early- as if most people have problems later . Once formula had been introduced I only went back once. Fed for an hour in the cafe and then sat on the step outside topping up with formula, because I was too ashamed to do it in front of the other mums. She needed a top up so I could get her home without her crying.

For me it would have been the words -

" Super, your baby has regained his/her birthweight. All those hours sitting with him/her attached to you and feeding have not been in vain. "

(someone who gave up exclusive b/fing at 6 weeks with both DC because by that stage both were still well below birth weight despite constant demand feeding)

Turniphead- you are amazing to have done that.

Thanks ohIdo. I know some people who have managed to stick to their guns even beyond that point...not me I am afraid.

But DC3 due in 5 weeks. Would LOVE to have the experience of my child gaining weight from my breastmilk! Fingers crossed!

I think 12 weeks with a hungry baby is much more of an achievement than years with a happy one.

Good luck next time - but don't try and be too much of a hero - you'll kill yourself looking after 2 siblings as well.

Just read some more of this and I have to agree with ohIdoliketobebesidethe. Being told to relax by MW's when you have a screaming, starving 3 day old baby who has lost 5lbs in 3 days is no help at all.

"Noone ever addressed the emotional side with me. It is an incredibly emotional place to be - all a newborn needs from her mother is milk and giving formula for the first time felt as bad as offering her a fag. Saying "just try to relax" is very unhelpful. Saying "you are going to be a great mother, this is just a small part of her life, and you are trying as hard as you can" is what is needed."

I'd like to second this. I was so upset that BFing wasn't happening and would have loved a pat on the back for trying so hard. Instead I got people panicking about the situation, and lots of talks about just how bad formula is to encourage me to keep going. Now I've finally had to switch to formula, I want to cry every time I give her a bottle because I feel so guilty .

Turnip, your situation sounds so much like mine. DC1 wouldn't latch on properly from the outset, despite 'help' from BF counsellours, BF support group etc.
DC2 I managed 3 weeks exclusive BF but then started mix feeding due to lack of weight gain.
DC3 (now 9 weeks), I exclusively BF for 5 weeks but similar to you, she was not gaining from her birth weight despite constant demand feeding. It made me feel so so sad. I am now mix feeding and trying to make it more BF than formula but it's not easy (especially with 2 other DCs to think about and give time to). I really hope that you succeed.
I would love to have exclusively BF all of my babies - could anything anyone said/did have helped? I don't know, but despite all the emotion and sadness about unsuccessful BF, I am lucky enough to have three healthy, happy children.

I can't keep away from this thread but it keeps making me tearful .

The thing that strikes me as so awful is that so many women feel as if they let their babies down by not being able to breast feed. Yet EVERY decision they have made was the one that, at the time was best for the baby.

It's the most fundamental urge, I think, the NEED to feed your baby. And when it is not possible to do this, whether breast feeding is not going to plan, or if there is no formula in the house, the stress is indescribable.

When DS1 was born he was very late, very large and very hungry. He fed and fed but all I had for what seemed like ages was colostrum. My milk took a long time to come in and in the meantime the little I produced was not enough for him. I still have a vivid and upsetting memory of him sucking on my breast, spitting out the nipple, looking me straight in the eye and wailing with hungry distress. It was a look that said "I am starving, PLEASE feed me." I was beside myself with desperation and eventually asked to give him a top up feed, he needed something so badly.

Eventually we got breastfeeding going succesfully. But DS1 now has a life-threatening allergy to milk. I strongly feel that it was the top up feed that started it.

Had I known what would happen then I would not have let him have it, asked for something else. But I didn't know. All I knew was that my baby was hungry and I, as his mother, needed to feed him. And if my body wasn't going to give him what he needed then I would get it for him from somewhere else.

So regrets - oh yes. But guilt - no.

I was very ill with pre-eclampsia, HELLP syndrome, emergency C section at 32 weeks, C section wound dehisence, drain on wound for 4 weeks whilst dd was in SCBU.

What would have helped me to exclusuvely bf for longer and to bf for longer in total are the following:

Encouragement from SCBU staff to express by the side of the incubator and a hand or electric pump available there to do it, not some bf room along the corridor and away from my baby.

Me coping better with that feeling of "being tied down" that someone else describes. A big problem for me was that despite how ill I had been by the time dd was home I felt fine and pretty much back to normal (apart from stupid drain for another week) so I really didn't want to spend more time sitting on the sofa doing nothing, I wanted to get on and be out and about which wasn't conducive to establishing bf in my circumstances.

More support from community services and less pressure for weight gain in dd although I do worrry that she wasn't truly getting enough milk from me judging by wet nappies etc.

With ds1 - just better support and more encouragement. My mum wasn't a breastfeeder so it couldn't come from her and my HV was a waste of space, she made it too easy to just give up. And I do accept that it is a fine line between encouraging and being pushy but whne I was stuggling she just suggested giving formula and immediately went on to give me advice on how to manage when I stopped and became engorged. At the time I was fine about my 'decision' but regret it now.

With ds2 I fed for longer and mixed fed for a short time but again no real advice on how mixed feeding would affect my supply.

With dd I was determined to carry on for longer but she was FTT, initially falling down the centiles but by 6 weeks true weight loss. My HV advice was better - feed more often, baby moon etc but I did end up topping up. In a way it was a good move because she was really ill and the ff top-ups not working (well making her worse infact) made the HCPs recognise that actually in wasn't me being bloody paranoid and she was ill.

Thank you hunkermunker for starting this thread.

I too thought I would breastfeed, had no bottles, pump or formula in the house. I thought it came quite naturally to all women - what a big shock for me. I was induced, had a fairly good labour, AWFUL post natal experience.

Discharged from hospital the next day (first time mum), midwife did not visit for five days at which stage baby was admitted back to hospital with jaundice. Hosptial implied that it was my fault because of feeding, I now know it is a vicious circle of sleepiness and lack of interest in feeding due to jaundice.

Had to arrange my own midwife via the hosptial as my own midwife team did not contact me despite me leaving messages for them. Was informed by the cover midwife that no-one could come and see me as no-one was on duty from my team!!!!! Still no contact from them to this day!!!!

Got an amazing midwife whom I saw three times, we tried every position known to man and every device we could think of. After three weeks my mental health was seriously deteriorating, my attachment and relationship with my baby was being affected, I felt so guilty and inadequate that I could not feed my own baby.

I agree with all the commnents about the emotional side of breastfeeding, esp the guilt associated with not being able to do it. I now understand why so many people give up, however what I don't understand is why is this not talked about more antenatally. Why do people not prepare you for cracked, sore, bleeding nipples?? I know not everyone gets that but a large majority do - I had no idea the physical pain I would experience. I know my latch was not correct but for the life of me we could not get it right.

If I had of been prepared I probaby would have researched more and sought out support prior to giving birth. Instead the midwives just talked in riddles at antenatal classes i.e "if you have problems breastfeeding we'll discuss it when and if it happens" which is code for don't give the demon bottle but I won't tell you any alternatives until it happens....which is tooo LATE because I am tearing my hair out and am already giving the god damn bottle.

I didn't have a really local breastfeeding clinic, and it took me a few weeks to build up some confidence to find one further afield but by that stage it was too late.

I have now managed to express and bottle feed breast milk exclusively for six weeks which I am really proud of. I will do this for as long as I am able. I still have feelings of guilt, but have accepted my fate (so to speak) and continue to be the best mum I can.

OMG rant over, that feels much better!!!!

Thank you again for this thread, I think it is a really important issue to discuss and get out there. I have no objection to anyone who chooses not to breastfeed, but it is devastating to women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and for whatever reason cannot!! So if you see me out there with a bottle, think before you judge or have any preconceived ideas about me.

I intended to BF and got plenty of support. But if someone had told me exactly how long it takes and how hard it is, then I would have known I could never expect to do it full time. I already had a sleep disorder and a back problem. Sitting feeding for hours on end was never going to work. (even without the mastitis, exhaustion, recovering from C/S and baby losing weight, thrush, etc).

The problem for me was, you ask midwives, health visitors and breastfeeding councillors for details of how to breastfeed, and they just give vague answers about "feed on demand" "every baby is different" without giving you any specific timings. Fair enough, everyone is different, but there are limits and it would be helpful to have some realism.

(I'm now mix-feeding at 5 weeks. Planning to go FF only soon)

PS. What did help me to continue some BF this long at least was the advice of my HV. I was at the end of my tether and assumed I would have to go entirely FF, but she convinced me to do 10 mins each side before giving the bottle. This has got us a few additional weeks of BF and has given me time to consider the transition between the two. I would have really regretted giving up BF cold - and at the time I was too exhausted and upset to think about it rationally. A sympathetic HV made all the difference.

I found Romney's comment: "you ask midwives, health visitors and breastfeeding councillors for details of how to breastfeed, and they just give vague answers about "feed on demand" "every baby is different" without giving you any specific timings. Fair enough, everyone is different, but there are limits and it would be helpful to have some realism." to be very true.

And on Mumsnet of all places this is going to be an extremely unpopular thing to say, but buying the Gina Ford book when DS1 was 8 weeks old was a massive help because someone actually TOLD me how often I needed to feed in order to be feeding him enough. Before then I had just had the "whenever he wants it dear" from the HVs and "oh I can't remember and you screamed all the time anyway" from my Mum. GF gave me the confidence to know that I was feeding enough and it all settled down from there.

Balloon I am at your feelings of guilt about that one top up your DS having caused his allergy to cow's milk. I have a similar guilt with DD (but she had 3 months of Aptamil during mixed feeding before we switched to Nutramigen and ended her agony and severe excema...). But you know of course that NOONE in the allergy/immunology field know whether early exposure can cause or cure a preexisiting disposition to allergy. And well done you for getting the BFing back on track

I also agree with you that GF is NOT the devil she is painted with regards BF'ing (for some people, I totally accept that she is not everyone's cup of tea). A very lovely woman on my current birth board used GF's method for increasing supply very sucessfully for her first child (where the previous traditional methods of babymoon, skin to skin, etc etc) just didn't work. I am bearing that in mind for this time!