If you were definitely going to breastfeed when pregnant and didn't (or didn't for very long) once your baby was born

[hunkermunker]

Is there anything that could've been said or done to help you to breastfeed for longer?

Lots of sad stories on this thread

I am one of the lucky ones with few problems, but I still almost gave up with my first child.

What I wish someone had told me was:

• Some babies are born "knowing" how to feed. Others have to be taught how to do it. So, if there is a lady in the next bed who seems to be feeding wonderfully, it's probably either a) not her first or b) a baby who knows what it's doing. It is NOT that she is so clever and you are a failure.

• When you feel like you haven't got any milk because the baby is constantly hungry and feeds non-stop and is never satisfied, yes you are sort of right that you haven't got enough milk today but because of today you will have enough milk TOMORROW because all this hell is for a purpose . . . there IS an end to this I promise. (I knew I didn't have enough milk on several occasions, and all the information I found said "you will have enough milk." No one explained it properly except Penelope Leach.)

You very rarely hear people telling mums who BF to make sure they eat, regulary.

I hear from friends who give up BF as little milk came in etc, but when I ask them about what they are eating, they reply with "no time to eat etc"....

Best advice I got was EAT....

Not sure where to post this, can we have an If you were ambivalent about breastfeeding while pregnant, did once baby came but constantly had ishoos thread please?!

When dd was born I said I was going to "give it a go". Not because I wanted to, but because I thought I should. I thought that breastfeeding was for newborns and that breastfeeding for 6 months was ridiculous . The concept of bf past 6 months didn't even occur to me and I thought that formula was a progression from breastmilk, not an alternative.

I clearly knew nothing about breastfeeding! And, I was given absolutely no information other than a page in my maternity notes with a picture of a baby feeding and the caption "Breast is best".

So dd is born, we have skin to skin and we are left alone for a bit. I do get an urge to feed her, but don't a) because I don't know how to, and b) because I don't know if I am "allowed"(sounds stupid I know). MW comes back and starts talking about me going for a bath then almost as an afterthought asks if I am going to bf, I say I'll give it a go so she gets dd to latch on by grabbing the back of her head etc. A few minutes later she says ok take her off now, we need to get you cleaned up and down to the postnatal ward.

I want to go home so they get me to latch her on again so they can see we are able to feed, dd is very sleepy and reluctant to latch on but we eventually manage and are discharged. This is 7pm and going on the "feed on demand" message I have been given I then don't feed her again until 6am the next day. During the course of the next day I feed her only 2 or 3 times, then evening comes, she suddenly wakes up and starts screaming and wanting to feed non-stop. At 2am she is still alternately feeding and screaming so I decide bf isn't going to work and go to Tesco to buy formula. She has 2 oz and goes to sleep. Next morning after feeding her for an hour or so and her still screaming I give her another 2oz. MW phones me and tells me off for giving formula but doesn't really explain why other than "it's not a good idea if you want to bf".

Next day my milk comes in and I revert to exclusive breastfeeding. However dd is very unsettled in the evenings, wants to feed non stop for 5-6 hours and still wakes every hour or 2 thereafter and I begin to dread 6pm arriving. At around 5 weeks someone suggests giving her a bottle to fill her up a bit more. At first I express this but find finding the time to do it difficult so switch to formula(still breastfed the rest of the time). We manage to continue like this for some time, dd sleeps better, I don't dread the evenings anymore, all seems fine. However I still have constant doubts about my supply, worry constantly about whether she is getting enough and whenever dd wants feeding more than usual I top her up with formula. Then at 5 months dd starts to refuse the breast during the day and by 5.5 months won't feed at night either so I give up and she is fully ff.

Eesh sorry that is quite an essay and I still haven't even answered the question! What would have helped:

1)More info on bf in general but especially
a)Getting bf started and feeding on demand
b)Cluster feeding/growth spurts
c)Supply
d)Common problems/concerns

2)If the first couple of feeds had been less of a lets get this done so we can tick the box and more time had been spent on helping me latch her on. Also if the first feed had happened during skin to skin not after dd had been dressed etc.

3)If my mother hadn't been constantly in my ear telling me 10 minutes each side then not for 3 hours

4)If I'd known breast size didn't matter-have always been paranoid about my 32a's anyway and just couldn't believe that they could sustain a baby.

5)If all the bloody literature I found didn't say "some babies may feed as often as every 2 hours" making me feel like I must be getting it all wrong when dd wanted feeding more frequently than that.

Thankfully by the time I was pregnant with ds I had discovered MN and Kellymom and was able to approach breastfeeding with a completely different attitude. We are still going strong at 11 months, mainly thanks to reading various threads on here and knowing what was normal!

I really wanted to breastfeed, and just assumed that I would. When I first tried, DD wouldn't latch on so the MW showed me how to hand express and then fed her with a syringe. I was in hospital for 3 days and the BFing support consisted of my nipple being forced into DD's mouth. It never worked, so they continued getting me to hand express and feeding her with a syringe (I wasn't allowed to feed her with the syringe). I asked to be transferred to my local maternity unit for better BFing support but I was lied to and told that the unit didn't want me. When I contacted the maternity unit afterwards they told me this was untrue and that they had a bed waiting for me.

I was finally discharged with DD still not BFing. At this point, DD would scream at the first sign of my breast and refused it completely. I had loads of help and support from the local midwives and maternity unit and was even re-admitted to the unit for a night but sadly nothing worked and DD continued to refuse my breast. I continued to express all her feeds for two months but gave up after the third bout of mastitis - my supply went down and I couldn't pump enough to get it back because of a badly cracked nipple.

The whole experience was horrible, and I'm still gutted that it didn't happen. I also feel extremely guilty that I didn't carry on expressing.

I'm not an expert but I personally felt that DD was traumatised by the brutal "support" given in hospital initially and I think I would have stood a better chance with BFing if the help there had been better. All the support I received once home was exemplary but DD just never latched on, although she did thankfully overcome her hatred of being near my chest. We never did find any other reason why she wouldn't latch on.

It didn't help that I've felt like such a failure throughout either, but in fairness I think this is more because of me than other people making me feel bad.

My experience was a long time ago but ...

DS - had decided I wanted to bf before he was born. Other than being shown once how to get him latched on once I had no guidance at all. I did, on occasions, top him up but managed to keep bf going until he was five months - once we got over the cracked nipples, etc. it was wonderful and so easy but I feel we got there more by luck than anything!

DD - having had the successful months with DS after a tricky start I wasn't surprised when initially I had difficulty with DD. She would not feed from the right side even with the rugby ball hold. After a few days she started screaming on starting feeding - turned out she had thrush so we treated that but still feeding was a nightmare. She was a very painful feeder and after three weeks of agony when she unlatched herself and spat out a mouthful of my blood I decided to give up. Years later we found out she was badly tongue-tied. I still feel so guilty that I didn't find out what the problem was - but how could I as there was no mumsnet in those days.

oh, an 'arms in the road' baby is one who flails about when you try to latch him on and conveniently puts his arm or fist in the way of his wee mouth.

oh I have one of those - she can also now shove her muslin in too and look really chuffed with herself -am glad its got a name now

i have a headshaking baby, too.

DD1 was another one like this.

they start to pant and shake their heads from side to side, often chewing a fist or fingers.

yes, i can read this sign! 'i'm hungry!'

I was in the hospital with DS for 4 nights and I did get a lot of help on positioning but nothing seemed to work. They topped him up with formula a couple of times but to be fair to them I did sign consent for this through tears as he did not seem to settle any other way.

It was only when I came out and the midwife visited that she pointed out his tongue tie which meant it was difficult for him to latch on. She was excellent and spent a lot of time showing me different positions for holding him.

I think if his tongue tie had been sorted out at the hospital it might have been a different story but the midwife advised that there was a 2 week waiting list to get it snipped. then due to the constant feeding I got mastitis. I tried a few times to speak to the NCT breastfeeding helpline but never managed to get through to anyone.

On day 10 DHs Mum died unexpectedly, and as he had been the one keeping me together just about, I felt I had no option butto give up.

I think all hospitals and midwives should check for tongue tie. Particularly as it seems to be hereditary as I have it, so there should be a good indicator.

Things that could have helped me:

1. really being told that when in hospital you should always buzz to get help with positioning at each feed
2. prior warning that bf can be difficult - I just thought it woudl come naturally andthen felt like a failure
3. not being told that nipple shields are just like a plaster and don't fix the problem and therefore useless. Okay that may be true but they might have helped me keep feeding and let my nipples heal a bit.
4. when showing hospital mw my cracked and bleeding nipples and asking if was normal, not to be told "no, it shouldn't be like that" and then getting discharged 10 minutes later (looking back this was my breaking point and I really freaked out and never quite recovered)
5. not being encouraged to express by very busy hospital midwife who probably didn't have the time to really help me - it just made me so confused about what I was meant to be doing

No 2 is due in March and I am sure by the end of my stay in hospita the mw's will be sick of me buzzing for help -but I am determined to get as much help as possible this time round.

I think all mum's should be given the link to this board after a positive pregnancy test.

Reading all these posts in the months leading up to dd's birth was the only thing that made me realise breastfeeding could be tough. My mother had found it very easy, so gad friends.

I have NO IDEA why people aren't more honest at NCT classes and the like. I know breastfeeding is under threat and we must present a positive view and encourage eachother but I mean HONESTLY I would always much rather know the brutal truth/ Because of mumsnet and the support of a brilliant midwife I was fine but if I had not had any warning about how hard it would be I would have given up. This message is coming through loud and clear on this thread.

Tik tok makes an interesting point about HCPs. After 6 weeks the midwives I use (indie) have 90% of women still breastfeeding. I think Albany midwives have a similar rate. It is obvious that one to one, women centered care from a midwife or health visitor that knows you and visits you every day for 2 weeks after birth who is TRAINED in breastfeeding is the way forward and would save us all a lot of heartache.

I wanted to BF but the awful traumatic birth I had, followed by taking DS away from me quite quickly for weighing etc, no skin to skin, then criticising my first attempt at BF got things off to a bad start. Then when DS wouldn't latch on, a succession of brutal midwives with no training came to 'help' - which put DS off completely. He just would not do it. I tried for 4 months and he had a total of about 5 breast feeds. So I ended up expressing exclusively for him for 18 months. It is one of the saddest things I have ever had to deal with. DC2 is due in December and I am doing everything in my power to make sure that it goes beautifully this time.

Tarka, what a story

No breastfeeding counsellor should be diagnosing zinc deficiency - either she was stepping way outside her boundaries or she also had other quals.

Reading what you say my money is on the very poor advice you got to feed one-side only per feed. Many mothers do this and are fine but it is never something women should be told to do deliberately, because it reduces the amount of milk the mum can make and for some women (like you?) it can make the difference between managing to bf and not. The other thing is being told WRONG stuff about sleeping and not pooing.

You were totally and utterly let down by the people whose job it was to give you good care and good information - it is so sad you feel guilty as it is so unjustified Feel , not guilty

It is not too late to complain about the rotten, crappy care you got - just copy and paste what you have written here and send it to the PCT, the MSLC and the director of midwifery.

TPL, I am for you as well.

There is no excuse for rough handling and shoving babies onto breasts. It does, as you say, mess things up BIG TIME. There is good research that 'hands off' leads to longer breastfeeding....why are some midwives so keen to push, grab and shove??

I also had a nightmare with ds1. I was determined to have a relaxed attitude to bf and to 'give it a go' but not beat myself up if I couldn't do it.

I gave it a go and beat myself up horribly when it all went wrong. My son had lost a pound in weight within the first 10 days, was puking fresh blood after every feed and pooing old blood. He couldn't latch and would last about 15 secs before he fell off and we'd have to start over again. The pain was far worse than labour and I would literally scream with agony.

ds1 was a forceps birth and, because he was back-to-back, the forceps had pushed his little jaw out of alignment. This was only discovered after 2 weeks of screaming and starving on his part and bleeding agony on mine. By the time the cranial osteopath had popped his jaw back in place, I'd already moved onto bottle feeding and my milk had gone.

I was made to feel horrendous by midwives and health professionals and it was easily the most traumatic thing of the whole experience. I didn't bond with my son until about he was about 6 weeks as, even though I was bottle feeding, I still flinched whenever he came near me.

I'm now pregnant with my second, and I'm so nervous about breast feeding. My husband is really supportive about it all and will support me whatever I choose. I am determined to breast feed next time as I know it is best (despite the fact that I have a happy healthy robust little boy and know that bottle feeding did him no harm). I refuse to be made to feel the way I did by the midwives and health professionals that I dealt with.

I just hope I get on better next time. I will definitely get in contact with a breast feeding counsellor before I have my second. I'll also have mumsnet....

The rough handling was horrible, especially as I felt so sad that DD was being manhandled and upset when she was so new. The only positive thing I've taken away from it is that next time I know not to let them do it and to demand a transfer rather than being fobbed off again.

Tarka, the bells should have been ringing to a deafening level....and it was not your fault in any way.

Bf is (normally) not complicated - but the useless HCPs you saw made it so. They befuddled and confused you, by telling you things were fine when they were not (why would you disbelieve them? It's their job to know these things!) and by giving you advice (to feed one side only) that actively undermined your production.

You can still complain....

Warning beforehand that it could be hard

Not being kept in hospital for 36 hours - with a stated aim to help me establish feeding (ha) and get some rest (ha ha) with minimal support at a lot of critical moments. DS was sleepy to start with and didn't cry all that much and he continued to get sleepier because I just hadn't understood what I should have been doing.

When we were taken back into hospital with him severely dehydrated after 7 days, there was no one with a real knowledge of breastfeeding on the paediatrics ward, lots of in theory support but really not a clue. No one showed me how to make sure for example that all the milk was caught in the breast pump, and at first I lost half of it, dp was able to help work it out but couldn't be there overnight and early in the morning. I didn't know that expressing wasn't going to keep up my supply anyway, and trying to get a routine when you're subjected to the hospital's routine and their interruptions all the time.

Because of the stress and circumstances that had led up to ds's readmission, I also felt a lot of the time that I was being treated as a failed mum (not just a failed breastfeeder).

My 2nd is due in January and I just hope this time I can get the support I need sooner and crack breastfeeding. At least I have more idea of the other basics of looking after a baby.

Tik tok - I disagree that Bf is (normally) not complicated. This post in itself shows that quite a lot of people have significant problems. With the right support it should be easy to sort out but unfortunately most people do not get access to that support!

Tarka - NO part of what happened to you was your fault and no amount of prep can tell you the realities of dealing with a constantly feeding baby or other challenges.

You were failed horribly by those who should have supported you. Do not fell guilty! Feeding is such a tiny part of your baby's life.

susie - you're misunderstanding me, I think. The vast majority of problems with breastfeeding listed here are caused by small issues being turned into problems which then become real barriers. Breastfeeding, left to itself with no cultural or social expectations or other things to mess it up, is not complicated.

By that, I do not mean that every mother 'should' find it easy.

Am going to shut up now - let the thread be what it was intended to be

Ah yes, I see what you mean, apologies for the misunderstandings. And thank you. Have not'spoken' to you before but your posts on lots of threads helped me through those horrendous first few weeks!!