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We need to change the conversation around breastfeeding

186 replies

pisces5891 · 18/10/2026 21:28

I am writing this post knowing that it will potentially kick off a bit of hornet's nest. I'm just really fed up with how much pressure there is on women to breastfeed, when all the evidence suggests that a significant number of women simply cannot exclusively breastfeed. I would even hazaard a guess that more than 50% of women cannot exclusively breastfeed. Its making women miserable and is the number one cause of post natal depression. Enough!!!

When I tried to breastfeed, I had real trouble providing enough supply for my baby. I was told that with the right support, almost every woman can breastfeed. I received help from 3 different lactation consultants. the first told me, less than 5% of women have actual low supply, and if low supply was really true of a lot of women, then the human race would have died out. This is objectively speaking totally false. Historically, women would share feeding of babies with other lactating women, and even then, lots of babies died. So the fact that the human race still exists is absolutely not evidence that the majority of women have enough supply. the second lactation consultant told me that if there was no formula, I would have found a way to exclusively breastfeed. this is also not true. My mother grew up in a tiny village overseast, where there was no access to formula. And she told me that it was rare that one woman would exclusively feed their own child, it was normal that it would be shared amongst the group and in the case that there were not enough other lactating women, they would put the baby at the teet of a goat in order to feed it because it was understood that it would be rare that a mother could exclusively feed her child from her breast. In my nct group, there are 10 women. One chose to formula feed from birth. The other 9 all wanted to exclusively breastfeed. only 2 of them are. and every single one of those 9 had the support of private lactation consultants, so we cannot say they are unsupported. A variety of issues from latch to supply to mastitis- so many problems that we all tried desperately to resolve, and we couldnt.

The third lactation consultant actually watched and listened to me breastfeeding and told me that my baby was not transferring enough milk. She was the only one of the 3 lactation consultants who had actually worked in a nicu ward and was able to recognise the signs of hunger. my baby thankfully was not starving but had I listened to the first 2 Lactation consultants, I think she would have been . This lactation consultant told me that it is very common on the Nicu ward to find very thin very hungry babies of mother's who are desperate to exclusively breastfeed, the babies are literally starving, drawn, crying and lethargic, because they are not being fed enough.

mixed feeding needs to be a system that is properly introduced to mothers. Mother's need to also be shown what an actual wet nappy looks like. I was told 6 to 8 wet nappies were a sign that my baby was getting enough food. Now that she is getting enough food because she's mixed fed, I can see what an actual wet nappy looks like, and it's really heavy compared to what it looked like when I was breastfeeding her.

I think this is a real issue and mumsnet is partly to blame for it, because the amount of threads I see where someone posts that they're struggling with breastfeeding, and they're told to keep going even when their baby is dropping centiles. It's the latch! It's tongue tie! Try an osteopath! Breastfed babies always lose weight! Its ok to drop centiles! You'll get there! It gets easier! Please PLEASE stop advising women to keep going no matter what, because in some instances, those women and there babies will end up in emergency care. Of course, many breastfeeding problems can be overcome with the right support, but in my experience, it sometimes never resolves, and the absolutely right and moral thing to do is to introduce the bottle.

I'm not blaming women here; the fault is in the system. Breastfeeding needs to be properly researched, but like all womens health, it's ignored.

I am still breastfeeding my baby girl, we mix feed very successfully. For anyone reading this struggling with breastfeeding, know that you're not alone.

OP posts:
Peonies12 · 21/10/2026 11:24

I'm really sorry for your experience but what you have posted is simply not true. The issue in the UK is lack of support for breastfeeding, there are many women who could have breastfed, if they want to, with more (free) support. but also being told in advance that it is hard work in the early weeks, it is painful, and it's normal to breastfeeding frequently and round the clock.

CocoPlum · 21/10/2026 11:24

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 11:07

Demand-fed and cluster-feeding babies with total access to the breast may nurse
frequently throughout the day, sometimes feeding as often as every 10 to 90 minutes, or having periods where they want to stay at the breast almost continuously for hours. (UNICEF UK)

Having periods when they want to do this

It is not normal for this to be all day every day, as I have repeatedly stated. Do you believe a 5 minute feed every 30 minutes would be sustainable for a new mother?

I'm leaving this part of the conversation now as you clearly think your own breastfeeding experience trumps my education and practical experience of supporting women who have gone through this and are on their knees.

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 11:25

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 21/10/2026 11:22

Yes but they don’t recommend feeding every half an hour until you crash the car with exhaustion.

Modern life is the problem, not feeding on demand. My babies slept with me, so they had access to my breasts all night and I could get some sleep.

HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 11:27

@scoutzx mine were never in my bed, I breast fed till they were 2 got plenty of sleep. Co-sleeping is not essential to a good breastfeeding journey.

Tryagain26 · 21/10/2026 11:30

What evidence is there that 50% of women can't exclusively breastfeed?
I'm sorry that you didn't feel supported but I don't believe that statistic. I think with the right support and correct advice most women can successfully breastfeed. It's how women through history have always fed their babies.
The issue now is that we are not a breast feeding friendly society, many women feel embarrassed by it, have to return to work too soon after childbirth, and don't have the confidence or right support to continue.

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 11:33

CocoPlum · 21/10/2026 11:24

Having periods when they want to do this

It is not normal for this to be all day every day, as I have repeatedly stated. Do you believe a 5 minute feed every 30 minutes would be sustainable for a new mother?

I'm leaving this part of the conversation now as you clearly think your own breastfeeding experience trumps my education and practical experience of supporting women who have gone through this and are on their knees.

Modern life clashes with biology!!

For the vast majority of human history, babies were carried around all day, breastfed on demand, and slept right next to their mothers.

HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 11:34

@Tryagain26 Breastfeeding is less culturally normal too now, so less people do it. I remember being on a zoom baby group in covid where one mum said she didn't BF because she thought it was weird and gave her "the ick" baffling to me.

As less children see breastfeeding in their own homes with siblings and cousins etc they will too grow up to view it as "weird" and then they themselves are less likely to do it. The more you experience open breastfeeding culture as a child the less you are likely to think it is strange as an adult.

Contentiousandemotive · 21/10/2026 11:44

Women aren’t prepared for the relentlessness, exhaustive, all-consuming, painful and 24-7 job that is establishing breastfeeding.

More emphasis needs to be put on the need to let the new mum do nothing but breastfeed for the first few weeks.

If women were more prepared then more people would breastfeed for longer and more might decide to bottle feed from the off and then we wouldn’t have this huge number of. women who feel like they failed. It’s such an emotive topic.

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 11:49

Iocanepowder · 21/10/2026 06:55

The poster I was quoting said babies ‘only need 5-10mls per feed for the first few days of life’

What I was saying was that I could never get even nearly that out.

I was more talking about the issues with pre collection. Why would you be able to get any notable colostrum? You hadn't had your baby yet. And yet I imagine your failure to collect it stressed you out, and left you worried and doubtful.

I feel like a lot of people expect their milk to come in faster after birth, for there to be more colostrum, and for it not to hurt, and those are beliefs that aren't helpful, I think.

Allswellthatendswelll · 21/10/2026 11:54

AutumnHello453324 · 21/10/2026 09:55

@PancakeCloud I agree with @Allswellthatendswelll but I wanted to add that it's not enough to keep hammering the message about breast is best. My experience is that pro-BF in this country is all talk, without substance.

I had a very straightforward BF journey and yet I had an incredible amount of pressure to formula feed from the start:

  • inadequate advice from idiot midwife who, without any warning, shoved the tip of my nipple in the baby's mouth. Luckily I was educated on BF and I knew that that was the OPPOSITE of what you should do to get a good latch. But that one minute meant baby bit my nipple so BF on that side was painful for WEEKS.
  • after my c section, midwife said if I formula feed they can help me and give baby a feed so I can sleep a bit but if I want to BF, I'm on my own. And fucking left. I was refused even a glass of water. And they fucked up my pain medication so I was in a HUGE amount of pain for about 12 hours post c section so I couldn't move etc.
  • second night in hospital, I was so incredibly sleep deprived, same message. If you let us give him a bottle, we can help, but if you want to BF here is the baby, and they disappeared.

At home, every single time:

  1. I said baby wasn't sleeping
  2. I can't make it to XYZ event because I can't leave baby for the evening/more than an hour
  3. I said I was tired
  4. I said baby cries a lot and is fussy
  5. Family visited (they wanted to give a bottle)

I was told to just formula feed and it will solve all my problems.

It was constant. Just constant. I had a healthy baby, fed well from the minute he came out, I wasn't even moaning or complaining much. To be told daily to just give a bottle when you're tired and sleep deprived, is awful. This was family, friends, mums at baby groups, and Mumsnet (I posted about sleep deprivation and the whole of Mumsnet replied saying I should give formula to help them sleep better and if I am stubborn and want to continue BF, then it's on me).

And then when baby turned 6 momths, people were disgusted and shocked that I continued. Literally on my baby's 6 month "birthday" a family member said "nice, you can stop BF now".

My baby also had a dairy allergy so switching to formula was actually a very tricky challenge but no one wanted to hear that.

The bit about after your c section is absolutely shocking! Again it comes down to a real lack of post partum care that means women feel that lettting someone else give a bottle is the only break they will get. Whereas actually if they were better looked after they could just focus on feeding.

I also agree about people just not knowing much about breastfeeding. I have friends who were perfectly informed and intelligent but didn't have kids and they would raise their eyebrows that I couldn't leave my three month old for a day.

I'm still feeding DD at 18 months and now getting pressure to stop!

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 11:56

Contentiousandemotive · 21/10/2026 11:44

Women aren’t prepared for the relentlessness, exhaustive, all-consuming, painful and 24-7 job that is establishing breastfeeding.

More emphasis needs to be put on the need to let the new mum do nothing but breastfeed for the first few weeks.

If women were more prepared then more people would breastfeed for longer and more might decide to bottle feed from the off and then we wouldn’t have this huge number of. women who feel like they failed. It’s such an emotive topic.

Absolutely. I expected my life to revolve around feeding baby and napping for the first month, and I expected it to hurt – and I also expected it to work – and I think those things were essential for enabling me to take to it easily, along with a lack of tongue tie. I took the pain, the being glued to a lazyboy feeding baby, and the lack of sleep in stride, and by 4–6 weeks it was a doddle. BFing is generally, I think, a short and intense adjustment period with the first baby, and then easy as pie from then on out.

ExtraHotDoubleShot · 21/10/2026 11:57

Also there is a massive difference between feeding a 37 weeker and a 41 weeker, and so many babies are induced early now (including mine).

Tryagain26 · 21/10/2026 11:58

HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 11:34

@Tryagain26 Breastfeeding is less culturally normal too now, so less people do it. I remember being on a zoom baby group in covid where one mum said she didn't BF because she thought it was weird and gave her "the ick" baffling to me.

As less children see breastfeeding in their own homes with siblings and cousins etc they will too grow up to view it as "weird" and then they themselves are less likely to do it. The more you experience open breastfeeding culture as a child the less you are likely to think it is strange as an adult.

I agree. It was lovely when my 2 year old grandson pretended to breastfeed his teddy because that's what he had seen his mother do with his baby brother. To him it was a natural way to offer comfort.

Tryagain26 · 21/10/2026 12:02

Allswellthatendswelll · 21/10/2026 11:54

The bit about after your c section is absolutely shocking! Again it comes down to a real lack of post partum care that means women feel that lettting someone else give a bottle is the only break they will get. Whereas actually if they were better looked after they could just focus on feeding.

I also agree about people just not knowing much about breastfeeding. I have friends who were perfectly informed and intelligent but didn't have kids and they would raise their eyebrows that I couldn't leave my three month old for a day.

I'm still feeding DD at 18 months and now getting pressure to stop!

Yes you just have to read the posts on here that berate new mothers who turn down child free weddings invitations because they can't take their babies with them. The number of posters who say why can't your husband/parents/a babysitter look after them shows just how many people really have no idea

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 12:05

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 11:56

Absolutely. I expected my life to revolve around feeding baby and napping for the first month, and I expected it to hurt – and I also expected it to work – and I think those things were essential for enabling me to take to it easily, along with a lack of tongue tie. I took the pain, the being glued to a lazyboy feeding baby, and the lack of sleep in stride, and by 4–6 weeks it was a doddle. BFing is generally, I think, a short and intense adjustment period with the first baby, and then easy as pie from then on out.

I just assumed I would be able to breastfeed too. I didn’t buy any bottles or formula 'just in case.' I didn’t use a breast pump; I just fed on demand, carried my baby all day, and slept with them all night.

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 12:13

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 12:05

I just assumed I would be able to breastfeed too. I didn’t buy any bottles or formula 'just in case.' I didn’t use a breast pump; I just fed on demand, carried my baby all day, and slept with them all night.

Absolutely - so did I 😊 A sling, bed sharing, and so many cuddles from other people that I don't think my babies were out of contact with another human for more than fifteen minutes for the first six months of their lives 😂

I had two kids, three years apart, and spent six years straight breastfeeding! We even took our two-year-old on our honeymoon, because they were still BFing.
I did get a surprising amount of judgement from people, particularly once my babies were past about 6 months, asking when I was going to wean them off the breast and calling it 'weird' etc, but I just ignored them!

Hoppinggreen · 21/10/2026 12:19

I think that it would help if ladies who FF don't start the thread/conversation by trying to justify it
I FF - because I wanted to
However, I do agree that where ladies choose to FF (or have to) they shoud be supported. I drove a 2 hour round trip when I had a 3 month old baby myself to help my poor SIL who's Midwife wouldn't help her with FF. I also helped a lady I found crying is Sainsburys baby milk aisle who had been told to "go to the nearest large supermarket and figure it out"

YelliwFinnTuner · 21/10/2026 12:26

I’m genuinely sorry you struggled, but I do think you’re applying confirmation bias.
You have magicked up a percentage not based on science or fact but on your personal experience.

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 12:28

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 12:13

Absolutely - so did I 😊 A sling, bed sharing, and so many cuddles from other people that I don't think my babies were out of contact with another human for more than fifteen minutes for the first six months of their lives 😂

I had two kids, three years apart, and spent six years straight breastfeeding! We even took our two-year-old on our honeymoon, because they were still BFing.
I did get a surprising amount of judgement from people, particularly once my babies were past about 6 months, asking when I was going to wean them off the breast and calling it 'weird' etc, but I just ignored them!

I got judgement, too, for breastfeeding both mine for over three years each. Like you, I ignored them! (I got judgement for having home births too.)

When I had my first baby, we backpacked around the world for 18 months. I carried her in a sling all day, every day.

HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 12:34

I get the impression that lots of you (both BF and FF) interact with and know a bunch of judgey arseholes.

I never got pressure to FF or quit breastfeeding, never felt judged or even noticed much breastfeeding in public. Even one spectacular moment in the pandemic when I breastfed DS on the Aldi packing bench 😆

Maybe twice I got a "well done" or "how lovely" from old ladies in the m&s cafe but other than that noone seemed to care.

Or maybe they did but I am oblivious and I don't care about what people think about me!

Smartiepants79 · 21/10/2026 12:35

pisces5891 · 19/10/2026 10:22

Community knowledge is everything: in uganda, they begin eating barley oats at 6 months pregnant as they're thought to increase milk supply. Pearl barley in the middle east. Maybe old wives tales but these they do seem to understand in these countries that it doesnt necessarily come for free.

There's always people in these threads saying how easy there own breastfeeding journey was. I think that's great, and I'm happy not everyone went through what i did. But you can also see from these threads how many women struggled terribly. I think it would have helped me immensely to know that side of the story.

One poster said if you can't breastfeed its a body issue, and apologised saying that might sound harsh. I don't think its harsh at all! I also think it's a body issue! I think some women's bodies simply can't ebf for various reasons. And some babies can never be taught to latch.

I was able to breastfeed both of mine. The first was a real slog and had me in tears on a couple of occasions. I was well aware that this was a possibility from the outset and I’m very surprised to hear that some woman seem to have never been told by anyone how difficult it can be.
From my point of view I made sure to share how hard it was with my sister while she was pregnant. She managed to block this from her mind and actually said to me 3 weeks into her first babies life “I wish someone had told me how hard it would be”!!!! I bloody did tell her, she ignored me. Most people are not very good at learning from other people’s experiences.

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 12:52

scoutzx · 21/10/2026 12:28

I got judgement, too, for breastfeeding both mine for over three years each. Like you, I ignored them! (I got judgement for having home births too.)

When I had my first baby, we backpacked around the world for 18 months. I carried her in a sling all day, every day.

Oh, that sounds absolutely incredible!! What an experience!

OtterlyAstounding · 21/10/2026 12:58

HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 12:34

I get the impression that lots of you (both BF and FF) interact with and know a bunch of judgey arseholes.

I never got pressure to FF or quit breastfeeding, never felt judged or even noticed much breastfeeding in public. Even one spectacular moment in the pandemic when I breastfed DS on the Aldi packing bench 😆

Maybe twice I got a "well done" or "how lovely" from old ladies in the m&s cafe but other than that noone seemed to care.

Or maybe they did but I am oblivious and I don't care about what people think about me!

I was BFing 2008 through to 2014, and most people didn't care - I BF in public all the time, and hardly ever had any comments about that, for instance. But casual acquaintances, other mums at baby groups, older extended relatives, and random strangers did all have judgemental observations to make, now and again. Especially as my babies got older.

I did feel particularly notice that a minority of FFing mums felt as though they could be negative or derogatory about BFing in front of me, while it felt almost rude to talk up the positives of BFing in front of them, let alone mention the negatives of FFing. But that mostly just happened at one baby group that I stopped going to.

pisces5891 · 21/10/2026 13:01

As expected, a lot of people feel strongly about my post, which is totally fine, I get that this is an emotional issue for people, it is for me too. some general comments:

  1. I very explicitly say that the numbers i'm suggesting are a guess, and I am basing it on the world around me. What else am I supposed to base it on? if I see loads of women around me unable to exclusively breastfeed, what other conclusion am I supposed to draw?

  2. I agree that formula is pushed on mums by HCP, that was my experience too. when I talk about the pressure to breastfeed, im talking about the WHO, breast s best, NCT, some parts of the NHS, the natural birth movement, the umbrella organisations and the general movement to get women breastfeeding. of course its a good thing to encourage women to breastfeed, but when there isn't proper research into women's anatomies, we are all shooting in the dark. breastfeeding isn;t profitable, so no one is putting money into researching it.

  3. I really think it's wonderful that some women have an easy time with breastfeeding. however, one of the things that is really tricky is the 'it will get easier at 4 weeks, it will get easier at 3 months, it will get easier at 6 months'. I have seen friends attached to pumps and SNS tubes and spending hours on triple feeding and hundreds on lactation consultants because they are promised that it will eventually get better, and in many instances, it simply doesn't. My friend finally gave up at 5 months, and had been triple feeding that entire time!! 5 months of triple feeding!!!!!!! her baby wouldn't latch, she tried everything.

  4. there's a strong thread through this chat of 'breastfeeding is hard, women give up because they are surprised its hard'. I find that offensive. myself and the mums I know would go to the end of the earth to give our babies breastmilk. in many cases, women don't give up because its hard. they give up because it is literally unsustainable / impossible. unless you have triple fed a baby for weeks trying to increase your supply or to get a baby to latch, you should be careful of assuming anything about why women give up breastfeeding

  5. this is a minor thing but someone asked me how I could possibly not know that breastfeeding is hard. I knew it was hard. what I didn't know is that for many women, it simply won't work out. I was told; "the vast majority can breastfeed with the right support". I totally disagree with that idea- based on the people I have interacted with, a good number of women won't get there.. Im sorry if that makes people uncomfortable ; I get that we want to not put women off from trying.

The reality is that unless you have experienced real difficulties with breastfeeding, and im talking about weeks / months of problems, it's really difficult to understand just how dark it gets for some women.

I speak as I find. I look around me and it's the same story again and again. Im truly happy for those who don't have that struggle. I imagine your experience of early motherhood and feeding would have been very different.

despite all the difficulties I have had, I would readily try to ebf if I have another. I would support anyone around me with that endeavour.

Im logging out of this chat now, thank you to those who responded respectfully. and glad to have informed people of the crazy history of goat feeding lol

OP posts:
HairsprayBabe · 21/10/2026 13:02

@OtterlyAstounding I feel like a lot of the "negative" BF comments I read/hear/see are purely mis-information.

Eg " i didn't want saggy boobs" - it is age and pregnancy that changes breast tissue, not breastfeeding

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