Can anyone recommend a good organic formula milk for newborns?

[megglewell]

Have read a bit about HIPP but no others..

Of course, tiktok! It's weaning. [slaps forehead].

What would we do without you?

well precisely tiktok, i agree completely. so the 98% fig is not one that should be carelessly bandied on here, as it suggests imo rather more than can be accurately quantified.

i had wondered about weaning as well, wellie, a lot of scandis use baby porridge in a bottle from 3 mos.

I agree about the 98% thing, but when struggling, I found it encouraging to know in all likelihood, I had the basic physical ability to breastfeed - it gave me hope that my problems could be fixable (which is how it turned out).

If I'd thought that 30% of women just couldn't breastfeed, I'd have been less likely to push on and keep trying.

So that was quite a useful bit of info for me.

Miyazaki, Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make, however clumsily put, that what one of us interprets one way, guaranteed another poster will read another way, based upon our personal experiences. I was stating that IMO, and mine alone, I felt differently - it makes neither myself nor you right, just different views. But when I read the thread earlier I felt the barrage that Tiktok faced was unreasonable and the arguments unfair as they appeared to be based on pre-supposed knowledge of Tiktoks intentions and criticised the timing of posts!

And IMO my post was not 'laying into' - I stated how I read and interpreted a post.

Just my point of view.

hunker - interesting general point. Bfing didn't work out, so went over completely to formula at 8 weeks. Doesn't stop me wanting 1)proper info on formula - like Mears gave me about follow-on and iron and bio-availability at a time when I was unsure and 2)being quite happy for the behaviour of big pharma and/or the other formula companies to come under proper scrutiny.

one of the very few things my HV was any help with was explaining hungrier baby milk to me.

I did face a barrage, DebsCee, which increased as I defended myself - and when people have come onto the thread and seen the very mild words I wrote that pressed weejie's buttons, there's been surprise at the strength of the barrage.

Here's my take on what happened: I responded to the OP sensitively, allowing for the fact that I knew nothing about her motives, level of knowledge, experience or feelings. I have already said she could have been a student gathering info (this happens on MN from time to time). She may not have considered breastfeeding as an option - there's a thread going today from a mother of 3, who did not breastfeed her first 2 as she just never considered it, didn't even cross her radar - and may not have even thought of breastmilk as 'organic'.

Weejie read my post and thought 'but I can't breastfeed - telling me breastmilk is organic makes me feel upset'...projecting her own experience and response onto the OP, who as I have said, had not shared any info with us at all.

This is a risk with mumsnet. You are not just talking to the OP, but to every Tom Dick and Harriet who's reading it, with their own issues and experience. It's a public stage.

The onus is on all of us as readers and posters to remember that, and to judge how to respond....I made a judgement when I responded to the OP, knowing full well that someone somewhere might not like it very much, but my focus was the OP so I 'risked' it. I think it is worth the risk. Not mentioning breastfeeding at all would have been unnecessarily precious (if the OP had given any info to suggest she did not want bf mentioned, then of course I would have respected that).

very true, tiktok, in fact i think you took a pasting more for the way that others responded to your post (including the few people after you, tbh) than anything you yourself posted.

Yes, people keep saying "I'm sure all MNers know breast is best"
Really?? That's a bit of an assumption to make! Not to mention that even if it's true, first timers / occasional lurkers may not.
This coming from me, who until reading MN didn't realise it was possible to bf a baby over the age of 6mo! Now that seems ridiculous but it's true.

sorry - I wanted to butt out but I need to respond to this

1 - I have said several times that I personally can breastfeed and have done so with 2 children

2 - I have also said several times I go to a support group with woman who cannot breastfeed due to our illness (I don't want to go into details) and who have described to me how they felt in situations like the one above, and the issue for me was both immediate and CUMULATIVE mentions of breastfeeding

3 - and I have apologised if things seemed like an attack on tiktok, I also felt attacked and this shows the emotions roused by breastfeeding

4 - and given that, can't tiktok give a little ground and say, yup, can see your point, lets consider that there are two audiences - one who are not aware of breastfeeding, and one who are but are unable to (like the original poster, actually), and give them both equal consideration as right now I feel in the drive to consider those who are not aware of breastfeeding the feeling of those who are unable to are not dealt with as well as they could be

5 - so, I see your point with the audience you seek to defend, can you see mine, and once and for all can you accept this is not about me, not about you, but look to the bigger picture

thanks

I was just about to respond to that. Weejie had said she had BF and was not projecting in the slightest. I am sorry but her posts on this were nothing but measured,polite and informative as opposed to yours TT and I for one really appreciated what she communicated.

Message withdrawn

I agree - I actually think you got quite defensive Tiktok, and that things got personal quicly which was sad as it meant the main piont got lost.

well said Weejie and well done for keeping to the main piont.

exactly

but, weejie, by answering the OP's question AND mentioning bfing, was tt not adequately dealing with both audiences?

let's be honest here, if someone was interested in formula and wanted no mention of bfing, the OP would just have written (as many do) 'i'm not going to bf and don't want to enter into a discussion about it'. had tt responded as she did to that then you would have a point.

i'm afraid to say that i do actually think you are projecting... nothing to do with your ability to bf, more to do with the feelings of people at your support group tbh.

you can't know what prompted the OP to post, any more than tiktok. she herself said later that she had her own well-researched reasons and had not been offended by the debate.

sorry but no. this was weejie's first post. it was accusatory and ill-mannered and i'm afraid it set the tone.

" By weejie on Thu 26-Jun-08 11:39:53
tik, stitch, and the rest of you, stop being so insensitive - you don't know why tik can't breastfeed, I know with my new medication I won't be able to, and whatever the reason its her decision and your little comments won't help anyone."

she mentions BF in a superior way and FF in a negative light when the OP had said she wanted info on Formula

no, she didn't. she said that there's no way of stating which is the best because the manufacturers won't say (makes me livid btw). she gave the frankly excellent advice to choose one that is locally available and given that the mother is interested in organic foods she pointed out that the best organic stuff comes from her. obv if there is another factor in the mix, such as a drug interaction, then it won't be the best, so where's the problem?

"By tiktok on Thu 26-Jun-08 10:39:44
megglewell, there are no independent comparisons between formula milks with regard to quality, and as all infant formula has to meet regulations about the proportion of ingredients, you can be pretty sure they are broadly similar.

The most widely-available organic formula is probably HIPP at the moment; if you are planning to stick with one brand, you can check your chosen brand is available where you regularly shop to save long searches when you run out

Of course, the best organic formula comes from your breasts "

ok - looking that i still think it seem reasonable but 'little comments' could be read in a snidey way, but it wasn't meant.

I should also have said 'wouldn't be able to' rather than won't, and perhaps should have said 'woman in my support group yadda yadda' but as I've said it was a quick off the mark post as I was concerned about the tone and the cumulative nature.

that's why I went on to say " megglewell - its your choice and your circumstances, don't feel bad"

so, apologies for that, but can we go back to the main point which has emerged from this, which I think its worth refocussing on and losing the personal focus, is that there are two audience for debates on bf v ff and lets be sensitive to both

the emotions this has roused should clearly demonstrate the need for this

"she mentions BF in a superior way and FF in a negative light"

I didn't want to get involved in this thread but have to say that this statement had me lolling aloud.

thanks, in a way, i have just finished telling off an obstreperous 13 yo.

again a good piont weejie - she has said repeteadly the debate has moved on, lets lose the personal focus, so for gods sake stop ripping each other apart,

ah, but i read your 'little comments' as snidey, you read tiktok's post as 'insensitive'.

you say po-taht-toe...

this is a messageboard. tbh there wouldn't be a thing to read if we all had to take into account the feelings of every single potential reader before posting. that's why it's best to keep things factual in areas known to be sensitive, such as this one. which imo, tiktok does every time.

who's being ripped apart, fgs? what an over-reaction...

I felt Weegie's comments were well-made and courteous. I'm afraid Tiktok, lovely and supportive as you are, you do come across (IMO) as liking to be the expert, and do become very obviously annoyed if people don't agree with you, which is at least partly why this debate has become a bit personal.
The ironic thing is that in terms of contamination with chemicals, breast milk is often worse than cow's milk (we are higher up the food chain for one) so the superior 'organic' status of human breastmilk is a bit misleading. (Obviously it's better in many other ways, but less contamintaed it aint.)

oh good for you kk so glad you are lolling yourself around

Leaving aside tiktok's much discussed first response, I don't think these two comments, at the time the ONLY responses to the clearly asked question:

By stitch on Thu 26-Jun-08 11:04:02
breast milk?

post By sabire on Thu 26-Jun-08 11:20:03
I'm pretty sure that the difference (if we were able to measure it - which we're not) between the 'best' and the 'worst' formulas is negligable compared with the difference between the best formula and breastmilk! wink

were helpful or sensitive, and weejie specifically answered those comments. I'm glad she did.