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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

if you chose not to breastfeed, why?

197 replies

thisisyesterday · 20/06/2008 20:18

a genuine question. I can't imagine not wanting to breastfeed, and am honestly interested to know why other people don't want to. and partly because I am going to train as a LLL leader and want insight into this kind of stuff

is there anything anyone could have said or done that may have changed your mind?

do you regret not doing it now?

do you/did you believe that breast is best, but formula is an adequate replacement?

I realise that there is a distinct possibility of this becoming heated, but I am not posting it just to get people upset or anything. would be nice if we could discuss nicely, no?

OP posts:
TinkerbellesMum · 24/06/2008 23:54

Gizzle, welcome to MumsNet.

I don't think that thisisyesterday was trying to put anyone down nor that she was aiming her question at people who weren't able to. The truth is some mums really don't want to and she was wondering what makes mums feel like that.

You were lied to, not everyone can feed. In countries with the best rates 98% of babies are breastfed, the 2% are for lactation failure or because the child is unable to - cleft palate etc. I don't know whether you had lactation failure or HCP failure. Pumping is not reliable and for some it is pointless (from someone who lived by it with a 31 weeker) it does annoy me when people are told to do it to build their supply when they have a baby available to them.

thisisyesterday has said she is training to support BFing and I hope that she is able to find the answers here that help her support the mothers she meets IRL. I hope that one day there will be the funding to better train our HCP's so that they're not letting mothers down, that those who want to BF are able to (lactation failure and disability aside).

CristinaTheAstonishing · 25/06/2008 06:45

Welcome to MN, Gizzle. One of my friends has just started with formula for her DD2 as at 3 months the baby weighs only 4 kg. My friend breastfed her first till 11 months, I know it's not a matter of lack of commitment. If anything, she was quite judgmental about it herself. Things don't always turn out as we intended them to. Enjoy your baby.

mother3 · 25/06/2008 08:25

I breast fed 2 of my daughters till they were (9 months and /11 months.My first daughter i didnt.I was so bullied at hospital by midwives with my first daughter but they had given me a pill to dry up my milk.They should have read up my notes.Even with my second 2 daughters i had bleeding nipples etc.They all went on to being happy / heathy children they didnt starve.I had so much milk the midwife who came round took my extra milk which i expressed off to premature babys at local hospital.It does give them anti bodies etc .Every 1 has a free choice it just depends how you feel.Now i am paying the price got boobs going south.

MilaMae · 25/06/2008 10:36

Oh Gizzle what a good post. Welcome to Mumsnet.

Had very similar experiences,was as committed as you were etc. One of mine ended up in SCBU seriously dehydrated and jaundiced,another narrowly escaped.

The whole breast feeding thing for me was a nightmare from start to finish and believe me I'm no quitter. I had my twins after 7 years of fertility treatment so never give up easily and didn't. I managed it for 6 weeks for all 3 babies,got a spell of pnd as a result of it. I too am not sure if iI'd do it again,to have those 6 weeks full of lovely memories instead of agony and misery it would be a hard call.

Anyhow just wanted to say after a while the rawness of it recedes and you'll be amazed at how many people you come across who experienced the same. I used to steer cleer of threads,literature etc re breast feeding for fear of reading judgmental, smug statements.

Now my youngest is 31/2 I'm over it all. I actually feel proud of myself re those early days and when I see how healthy and totally fantastic my kids are I can see how much breastfeeding is such a tiny part of the great adventure of motherhood. That puts it all into perspective and you will feel the same eventually.

sophiewd · 25/06/2008 10:45

I had a breast reduction before children and always believed that I wouldn't be able to breastfeed and to be honest didn't particularly wanted to as felt very uncomfortable with the thought of it for some reason. I didn't actually produce any milk so the decision was taken from me.

Last Thursday DS was born and again started FF as again had no milk, but surprisingly some came in on day 3 and have spent time wondering whether to give it a go but feeling confused as to why I wanted to BF him and not DD, have stuck with FF as didn't want them to be different, and milk has gone now on day 5.

tiktok · 25/06/2008 10:48

Gizzle - your post is a sad one, as you are understandably angry and disappointed about the way your plans to breastfeed didn't work out It's always a good idea to read all the thread if you feel strongly about something before commenting on what the OP's intention was - you'll see there was no need to be angry with her or feel she was being critical or judgemental. She wasn't. She was genuinely wanting to know more about people's feelings and experiences.

I am an NCT breastfeeding counsellor. I would never ask anyone 'how committed to breastfeeding are you?' but in certain circumstances, it would be important to explore with the mother what she was prepared to do to put breastfeeding back on track - and part of this is finding out about committment. For example, someone who is ok about using formula needs a different approach to someone who is absolutely dead against it. The counsellor's feelings one way or the other don't come into it - it is the mother's choice, and she needed to know what yours was. Counsellors work in a 'mother-centred' way, and this is why she wanted to find out more about your position.

I agree the help you got from midwives sounds negligable - a baby who ends up in hospital because of the feeding going wrong has been let down but not by you....by the people whose job it is to support early breastfeeding. Your midwives had days and days to see things were not going well and to help you put it right.

You clearly went to huge lengths to repair and retrieve breastfeeding - no stone was left unturned. But it can be really difficult to turn things around after a baby has needed formula to prevent or treat dehydration.

I am pretty sure no one meant to make you feel inferior or judged - it's almost inevitable that a group of mothers breastfeeding will turn their group into a breastfeeding support group, because (as you found!) breastfeeding needs support to succeed. I don't know what the answer is to that - you cannot expect them to not talk about breastfeeding in front of you, even though every time they do, it risks being hurtful to you

You say you are angry because mothers are 'made to feel inferior by the breastfeeding lobby'. How about being angry with the people and the systems that are really to blame for your situation - the maternity ward, the community midwives? It's a horrible con trick that's played on mothers - stress how wonderful breastfeeding is, and then leave them unsupported and with a baby at risk if they hit problems, because too many healthcare workers do not know how to help breastfeeding work.

When the dust settles, you may feel able to write to the appropriate people - your PCT, your MSLC, the director of midwifery - and say just how weak and ineffective the breastfeeding help was.

In the meantime, as people's babies get older and start using solid food, the emphasis on breastfeeding at mothers groups will dilute, I promise you.

tiktok · 25/06/2008 10:51

sophie, if you want to breastfeed, then day 5 is absolutely not too late at all.

Start a new thread if you want to know more.

We all do different things with subsequent children - we learn as we go No need to feel that if baby No. 1 was not breastfed, then it somehow means no other babies should be.

MilaMae · 25/06/2008 11:00

Tiktok sorry to hijack but have a couple of questions.

My dd ended up in scbu seriously ill the consultant was furious that her bilarubin levels were so high. I had nagged my midwife constantly about it and her weight loss. Long story. Should I have made a formal complaint, I didn't at the time as was on a different planet??

I only ask as a friend of mine had the same midwife and a similar story. I won't do anything about it now but still wonder if I should have. Feel bad that I didn't.

Also she said my nipples were too long and the baby couldn't massage the breast to get the milk, I've always had gallons of milk(in Scbu they said it was lovely quality too,probably trying to make me feel better) but all 3 never put on weight. On my mothers side we've all had gallons of milk but problems re weight gain and have similar breast and nipple shape.

Just wondering if you've come accross the long nipples thing as even if I never do it again I want to get info for dd.

tiktok · 25/06/2008 11:23

Mia - yes, of course you should have complained. Not enough people do - understandable as it can bring back bad memories, but how will people and systems change without that feedback? It only needs one letter, copied to different people. Why not do something about it now? Unless it is literally years ago, what's stopping you?

Long nipples can make effective positioning a little more difficult, but it should not make the difference between a baby thriving and not - midwife should have sorted you and not let you and your baby 'drift' like that, esp as you had raised your concerns with her

MilaMae · 25/06/2008 11:29

It was 3 1/2 years ago, do you think I should then?

tiktok · 25/06/2008 11:37

Ok - straight answer, yes, of course.

I don't understand why you wouldn't, to be honest!

MilaMae · 25/06/2008 11:52

I hate getting people into trouble but when I think how it very nearly could have turned out, if I hadn't insisted, and how it could have all been avoided have to admit I get very angry so try not to dwell on it. Worry about getting a name for myself at otherwise good gp practise too but you are right there is nothing wrong with a polite letter of complaint.

Right will speak to said friend and take it from there.

So the long nipples thing is just a latching on thing. Should I have expressed until mouths grew bigger,it was suggested at the time. Just interested now,hopefully shouldn't have to advise dd for a long time yet

This will be my last post as don't want to hijack any longer,many thanks

tiktok · 25/06/2008 12:38

Mila - not liking to get people into trouble is understandable but is a bit insignificant compared to a baby's health and even life.... I'm sure you can be courteous and not ranty!!

Hard to say what you should have done with regards to expressing - I would have to have been there and seen what was happening! I would think expressing until her mouth grew bigger would be an unlikely suggestion, to be honest - what a faff!!

tyaca · 25/06/2008 12:53

i managed three weeks, and even that was with the support of some fab MNers. next time i will do longer, tho' by longer, i mean six weeks, not six months.

reasons: first off, i guess that i had huge reservations beforehand, did feel uncomfortable with the whole thing. have said it before, but if it were "elbow feeding" know i would have found that easier to get my head round iykwim.

secondly, and this a v important factor if i were to be honest. in RL i know noone who BF. none of DH's family did (he was FF and his sis FF their two). my other SIL struggled thru 10wks and my BF with a baby three months older than dd stopped by 4 weeks. also i was not a member of NCT or any antenatal group.

third: found it really painful. it does hurt (at start) and i wish people (esp HCP) admitted that rather than tell me that it shouldnt, cause it did.

fourth: i guess i was v overwhelmed by the whole newborn experience. i thought that by switching to FF i would start to gain control of one of the variables and having a baby would start to make sense. of course it didnt, and while i did like knowing how much dd had drunk, i still felt like i was struggling in deep waters. there was also a sense of wanting to reclaim my body after pregnancy. i was in the gym 5 weeks later . i was completely unprepared by how much dd would want to be on boob. i remember the day i stopped, she'd sucked for two out of three hours. i'd become v low and wanted to get off the sofa. gave her all of the 90ml i'd managed to express (which she drank in oooo.... less than a minute) and then wanted boob again. next time, i will stay on sofa for six weeks and expect to feed near constantly and appreciate this very special time. as i said, i really cant imagine BF for any longer than this, but will def give it that bit more than i did with dd

scaryhairycat · 25/06/2008 14:22

I haven't read all the other posts but I would just like to highlight another reason why a woman can give up b/f, in case it hasn't already been mentioned.
I do believe our whole society doesn't support b/f in an adequate way. As women, growing up and onwards, our breasts are presented to us in a predominatly sexual way, with a brief reference to them being used to feed babies in sex education classes and that's about it. Television, magazines bilboards - you name it, breasts are not shown in any other way than to represent sex or attractiveness. And therefore not only women are brainwashed in this manner, so are men.
Of course if you have grown up in a family where b/f is normal, positive and open, then it may go some way to counteracting the culture around you, but many people have not, as previous generations bottle fed as a matter of course and it is only fairly recently that b/f has become the most popular choice for mums to take - in theory at least.

So all that in consideration, a woman becomes pregnant; she is told that b/f is the best thing you can do for your baby, and of course, every mother wants the best for their child. She has the baby; suddenly her breasts are no longer 'sexual objects' but they are quite the opposite! She might be absolutely fine with that, it is of course an incredible thing a womens body can do, and feeding your baby can be an amazingly joyful experience.
But then she has to cope with the outside world. Oh dear, many have forgotton what breasts are for out there!

And her self esteem, as that seems to be (dubiously!) linked to how attractive/sexy you feel, is going to take a battering if she is experiencing leaky and/or painful breasts/nipples.
And while most partners are very supportive and lovely - some don't understand how the whole mechanics of b/f work and therefore make things harder whilst not meaning too, either with comments or suggestions that are completely unhelpful. (Some don't really listen when a women tries to inform them too!)
Then there is b/f in public; a women must feel comfortable doing this in order for b/f to work well, otherwise she is pretty much tied to the house, and if that is the case she can become very depressed, very quickly and it is impractical to say the least.
The first few weeks, of course, staying at home and establishing b/f properly is fine, but once and if that happens, then she has to tackle the outside world and peoples attitudes - not to mention the worry of 'covering up' properly so not to offend anyone. ( oh puhleeze!)

I b/f my ds for 5 weeks and stopped because of many combined, common problems that I wont go into here - what I have posted above being one of them. I felt guilty for years, and wanted no more children for years too. It took about 7 years to truely get 'over it' hence a 8 and a half year age gap between my ds and dd!
Again I really wanted to b/f dd but when it came to it I was terrified of all the problems that can occur, public feeding and the thought of not bonding with my dd as a result (something which happened with my ds, I developed bad pnd and we are still not very close, sadly)that I decided to give up at the hospital after about 24 hours. I am so glad I did. Not because I dislike b/f, but it was such a relieve to just enjoy my baby without having to worry at all about feeding her.
That is my experience, many brave and wonderful women can overcome this if this is how they feel, it is perfectly possible and please don't be put off reading this. Everyone has different bodies/babies/partners/experiences etc, so we must do what we can to change the society we live in. But whatever you do, don't regret or feel guilty for f/f if that is what you chose to do, children grow up very quickly, love and enjoy them while you still have them.

scaryhairycat · 25/06/2008 14:24

Sorry mammoth post!!
(It's been a while!)

JODIEhavingababy · 25/06/2008 14:36

Not read any of the previous posts (nap time nearly over!!) I really wanted to BF my DS, but with 2 shots of pethadine (no one told me it was going to make BF hard) and a jaundice baby, he was soo lazy and latch was never right... And it HURT so much!!! (I lasted 10 days and then expressed as much as I could forthe next week)

I agree with one of the first posters that if I was told how painful it could potentially be and that it doesn't come without problems in the first couple of weeks I might have stuck with it longer. As it was I thought I was doing it all wrong and was actually doing harm to my baby...

Anyway, 37 weeks pregnant with DS2 and have researched it ALOT more (thanks MN!) And I feel ready and confident to 'give it another bash!'

PuppyMonkey · 25/06/2008 15:10

I gave it a good shot both times. But both times it hurt so much and made me so tired.

TBH, I also wasn't mentally prepared for the whole thing - being so attached (literally) to your baby ALL the time and it always being your responsibility to get out of bed and do feeds etc etc. Tried to express but couldn't do it. Sent me a bit nutty, I think. I mean it, I was ready to run.

I was absolutely delighted to go to formula after that and have never had any bad feelings about stopping. Got two gorge children who have thrived. Lucky me!

sabire · 25/06/2008 20:26

Oh god, I feel a big analogy coming on....

Women who have a positive experience of breastfeeding (even if they have to overcome difficulties at the beginning) are like people who've travelled to a country, spent time with the locals, learned the language, explored all the wonderful places there, and got to know and love it.

Women who have problems breastfeeding, who give up before they've intended to and who won't try it again are like people who've travelled with a crappy tour operator, been put in a half built hotel near the airport three miles from the beach, got food poisoning, come home early and sworn they'll never set foot abroad again.

Women who don't try to breastfeed are like people who don't know anyone who's been abroad, who've only heard stories about getting food poisoning and being fleeced by the locals, and who are convinced that there's nothing abroad that'll make their life any better.

It's sooooo hard for me - someone who's done the breastfeeding equivalent of a 3 year beach holiday in Thailand, to hear people who don't intend to breastfeed say the equivalent of 'well I've heard that the beaches in Phuket are no better than Clacton, and anyway, I hate foreign food'.... and keep my trap shut....

TinkerbellesMum · 25/06/2008 20:49

sabire I love you! That was a brilliant post.

JODIEhavingababy · 25/06/2008 21:01

Sabire thanks for that post, when I'm having difficulties with DS2 I'll think of those beautiful Phucket Beaches!!!! That should make it all better (If not keep my mind away from sore nips for a while)

welliemum · 25/06/2008 23:50

Great analogy, Sabire! very true I think.

PuppyMonkey · 26/06/2008 10:11

Hmm, Sabire. But then again,I've always LOVED the holidays I have in Britain too!

sabire · 26/06/2008 10:46

Oh, me too! (too poor to go abroad - I camp in the UK.

But the point I was making is about people rejecting something that really have NO IDEA about - either because they've not experienced at all, or because their experience of it has been unrepresentative of normal, functional breastfeeding.

scaryhairycat · 26/06/2008 10:53

Quite right sabire.
It's not their fault though, that they have no idea. The question we need to ask is what kind of a society do we live in where feeding your baby the way God intended is an alien concept for many people?
A very warped one imo.