if you chose not to breastfeed, why?

[thisisyesterday]

a genuine question. I can't imagine not wanting to breastfeed, and am honestly interested to know why other people don't want to. and partly because I am going to train as a LLL leader and want insight into this kind of stuff

is there anything anyone could have said or done that may have changed your mind?

do you regret not doing it now?

do you/did you believe that breast is best, but formula is an adequate replacement?

I realise that there is a distinct possibility of this becoming heated, but I am not posting it just to get people upset or anything. would be nice if we could discuss nicely, no?

yeahbut, yeahbut, yeahbut... it still does seem fragile to me, tbh. more than it shoudl be. it seems to assume a lot, i think, in the sense that in whichever culture you can think of difficult births exist, trying times happen after birth that might interfere with skin-to-skin etc... it shoudl just be a tap imo. or a switch on the nip. beep!

Also, we're conditioned by our own experience of "eating a lot of food fills you up more than eating a little bit of food" - but that way of thinking doesn't work with colostrum, rather than a big feed of homogenous milk. Babies are designed to feed little and often, as Tiktok says - but unfortunately, they're also designed in such a way as to attract unhelpful and undermining comments, laced with personal experience and a good dollop of judgement perched oozingly atop.

aye, like i said, bad design. i remember reading somewhere that if it wasn't for our ginormous brains the human race would have died out aeons ago. only fertile once a month, only have one baby at a time (by and large), only way of feeding them is from the breast, which is contingent on other factors etc etc...

I had a breast reduction 2 years before having DS and had been warned that I probably wouldn't be able to BF, so had bought all the paraphenalia for FF.

When DS was born the midwife encouraged me to try putting him on the breast, which I did, and he (obviously) latched on. I wasn't convinced he was actually getting anything out though, and after a day he'd lost a fair amount of weight

We did persevere with it, and my colustrum/milk did come in, but then I got a spinal headache from the epidural and wasn't able to sit up for a week - he ended up having formula in the hospital as I wasn't able to feed him.

Once home, we carried on BF until I got a severe kidney infection after 2 weeks and wasn't allowed to BF while taking antiobiotics. I expressed for 3 weeks to keep up my supply, but when I was finally allowed to BF directly again, DS wasn't interested in the breast.

Since I'd always imagined I'd be FF, it wasn't a big wrench just to stop BF.

In line with some earlier comments, I must say that despite being hugely pro-bf I have zero interest in persuading people to breastfeed if they don't want to - or, for that matter, arguing with them about whether their reasons are good reasons or not.

Apart from being rude and patronising, it's also an insane waste of time when there are so many women who desperately do want to breastfeed and aren't getting the right advice and support.

Oh, I have a theory about why breastfeeding is often so horribly painful and inconvenient at the start.

I think it's an evolutionary thingy: until very recently, you just had to breastfeed or your baby might die (unless someone else kindly helped you out by wet nursing). So there was no evolutionary reason for it to be pleasant and fun.

Same as childbirth - the baby's got to come out whether you enjoy the experience or not. Conception, on the other hand, is voluntary, so there needed to be some sort of incentive because the human race wouldn't have lasted long if getting the baby in was as painful as getting it out...

My Theory By A. Elk brackets Miss brackets.

I'd go along with those theories, Welliemum.

Aitch, you say " whichever culture you can think of difficult births exist, trying times happen after birth that might interfere with skin-to-skin etc".

It's probably true that childbirth has always been potentially hazardous for mothers and babies, but once they survive pregnancy and birth, skin to skin and breastfeeding circumstances have not been affected except in cultures which for one reason or another have separated mothers and babies for cultural reasons only. If breastfeeding gets off to a difficult start (because of birth and postnatal events), this does not destroy breastfeeding - it might make it slower to get going, but the underlying assumption that breastfeeding is going to happen, the lack of any alternative, and skilled knowledge of traditional helpers around the mother, all combine to make a difficult start not such a big deal. Because breastfeeding is not physiologically fragile. It takes weeks for a mother's milk to actually go if she does not breastfeed at all; she can retrieve it at any time with relactation (not easily, of course, but physiologically it is perfectly possible); when a mother's supply dips for any reason, it can be boosted again.

Oh, just to add - there is a sort of 'tap' that switches on When the placenta is delivered, the hormones produced by it cease to circulate, obviously, and this hormonal change takes the brakes off prolactin - and the prolactin surge produces the milk, kicking in 2-5 days post-birth.

yes, well. i want a button, tiktok. click, brrrr.

interesting theory, wellie, i wonder that the creator types would think about the inherent sexism involved. men even get to have a laugh while spilling their seed on fallow ground. really, it should sting like razors...

I've known mother restart after six months, I've also heard of adoptive mothers, grandmothers and even fathers breastfeeding!

Tell me about it! My family (actually not including me!) tried to persuade my SIL to BF my brothers first as she hadn't with her first children. She didn't and everyone is supportive of that. She is allowed to have a go about breastfeeding, try to sabotage my breastfeeding, try to get me to wean at disgustingly early times (my 2 month old nephew is already starting) and I'm not allowed to defend myself as far as my family is concerned! If I talk about breastfeeding, for example Mum was talking about how hard it was with my brother because he wasn't off so she gave up at six weeks and I told her that it's normal, I get shot down. What do I know? My sister who fed until nearly a year and Mum's friend who has three children and none of them fed constantly like that. What do I know? Only what I was taught on my Peer Supporter Course through the NHS Breastfeeding Department!

Sorry, you found one of my favourite rant!

Can I just return to the breastcrawl? I tried it with DD2 and my flat nipples totally prevented her from latching on. Was I doing it wrong? I just think that some women's anatomy makes it much harder for them to breastfeed than others.

Mrs Badger, thanks for the link that was very interesting.

TBM, haven't yet watched the video but will do. Not planning on having any more children but if one comes along it would be nice to think things could be different.

Sad (for me) to see that the research seems to support feeding in a more prone position - I was told to try holding my daughter under one arm (is this the football position?). It was insanely uncomfortable and my back hurt. Would have liked to lie down but a C section meant it was very difficult to change positions for at least two weeks.

Sorry to be too lazy to do my own research but does anyone know whether this assertion 'its only poor latching that makes nipples bleed' is true? Thats what I was told, but surely it is nonsense. I had thrush and I thought that was the primary cause of cracking and bleeding.

As I've said before, Spero, I had cracked and bleeding nipples. The latch was good and I didn't have thrush. So, imo, it is sometimes just down to the sensitivity of the nipples. No research to back up my opinion, just my experiences.

I think the primary cauase of cracking and bleeding is physical trauma (ie bad latch)
thrush can make nips sore, pink/red and tender but I din't think it causes actual bleeding unless it's way advanced.

that PubMed site I linked to is a good place to start for finding peer-reviewed evidence-based stuff - their search function is shit hot very well designed

My two youngest (2.10 and 10mths now)
were in intensive care and tube fed. I expressed milk for both which went down their tubes.
I did not produce enough milk to sustain the requirements despite trying to fit in expressing numerous times a day with no support and not enough food because I was always rushing to get back to babies and so the doctors mixed my milk with formula.
I breastfed ds as he got better but as his weight was dropping and they would not let him home until they could see how much he was getting and had gained weight I switched to ff.
The method they use to see if a bf baby has taken enough is awful to watch. They literally sucked the contents of his stomach up through a nasal tube, noted amount and sent it back down. After all he had been through I didn't like to watch him gagging and suffering more and so I cahnged to ff. it also meant he gained weight better and came home that bit earlier.
When we got home however he was breastfed again but unfortunately he lost a lot of weight and was admitted back into hospital with failure to thrive at 6mths. He went onto ff permanently from then.
DD2 was fed my breastmilk through her tube and then via bottle. I did not put her to the breast after what had happened last time. I did not want to make it worse for her as she was more poorly than ds but I did want her to have my milk. I was given somebody elses breastmilk by mistake to feed her on e time which I was disgusted about. The milk had to be thrown away and I really felt for the other mother who then did not have enough milk to see her baby through (my dd2 was 12lb 2oz and so took 700mls a day whereas her baby was only 550g anfd took miniscule amounts so they had used up most of her stash )
Dd2 was given formula (infatrini) to aid her weight gain and is still on it now so the decision to breastfeed any further was taken away from me.
Wow Ive really waffled lol.

hello. yes I am still here. well, I wasn't, but I am now, just been catching up on the thread.

don't get me wrong, I am not devoting my energy to trying to persuade people to breastfeed if they don't want to.

what I wanted to understand was why some people choose not to, from the get go.
because the way I see it not all of those people would necessarily go on to formula feed if they had more info on breastfeeding.

ie, scorpio, came from a family with no breastfeeders, was young etc etc.
However if someone during her pregnancy had just told her about all the benefits, then maybe she'd have given it a bit more thought.
of course that doesn't mean she would have gone and done it, she is entirely free (as is everyuone) to make her choice on how she fed her babies. But at least then it would have been an informed choice, and at least she would have been supported had she chosen to breastfeed.

it isn't about changing people's mind or wasting energy on people who don't want to breastfeed, or not giving enough time to those who do.
It's just about trying to understand a train of thought that to me is totally alien. so that I can perhaps understand better some of the women I meet along the way (and so I don't totally put my foot in it as I may have done on this thread)

oh and just wanted to comment on breastcrawl as well.
the reason it helps is that if a baby is left to latch on by themselves then they generally latch on well.

(disclaimer: this does not mean it is 100% guaranteed to work for everyone)

I tried BF once and my DS wouldnt latch on properly and MW were useless but I didn't feel comfortable with the idea when I was poregnant was just a spur of the moment thing so possibly why I didnt persevere I dont know if I have another I'll try I think a a very close friend BF her 2 and it's not as in ur face as I thought it woukld be IYKWIM.

But I dont think thres anything wrong with FF either so will sit on the fence and watch LOL

I havn't had time to read all the answers but I hope this thread has stayed civilised. I think it is VERY important to understand the reasons why some women do not want to breastfeed so I am going to explain myself.

I bottlefed dd from birth by choice. The thought of breastfeeding gave me nightmares. I couldn't stand the thought of thid creature sucking form my breasts. I beleived that formula milk was just as good as breastmilk and totally rebelled against the whole breast is best argument. I have a thing against being told what to do, I don't like being dictated to by someone who knows very little about me.

A succession of temp midwives meant I had no opportunity to discuss my feeling with anyone.

do you/did you believe that breast is best, but formula is an adequate replacement?
Dh and all my family were very anti breast and pro formula and I was convinced that I woiuldn't cope with breastfeeding. Bottlefeeding was to my mind by far the best way, after all how could I go back to work etc and breastfeed.

I remember from as far back as a young child reading a little booklet (probably Bounty or a similar predecessor) heavily sponsored by SMA. I also remember reading advertisments in pregnancy magazines about the benefits of a certain formula (the company was later prosecured by trading standards).

is there anything anyone could have said or done that may have changed your mind?
Perhaps if I had fully understood the risks I may have changed my mind. It certainly did not help that in hospital minutes after I had given birth when I began to waver and murmered vauguely about perhaps trying but mix feedind that the midwife said very firmly no, that isn't possible you won't make enough milk you have to choose one or the other. Technically factually correct but not the right time or place. Far better surely to have encouraged a first feed followed by taking it one feed/day at a time and later, when I was more compos mentis discussing building up a supply first before making a final decision.

I suspect though, that it needed a whole change of psychology from me that could only come from very understanding health professionals or getting rid of the drip drip formula is normal culture which was the only one I had known.

do you regret not doing it now?
Yes, I did. About 6 weeks or so after dd was born and I actually finally began to get a bit maternal (before she was a "thing") I began to feel what if. At forst this manifested itself in regret that I hadn't even tried, then guilt (please never tell anyone don;t feel guilty for not b/f it makes them feel that their feeling are not important or even valid) then an anti breastfeeding brigade stance (how dare you say I didn;t do the best for my baby). finally, after about 18 months it turned into anger but a productive anger. I had bad support from HP's, had been brainwashed by family and friends. I didn;t stand a chance against that and I learnt to accept the decision.

There was a happy ending. I became pg with ds and despite huge difficulties in the forst month (total breast refusal and a more than 10% drop in birthweight) I breastfed him for 15 months (14 if you don't count the month of cup feeding) I had much better support in a different health authority. I by that time knew lots of other mums who breastfed and my whole attitude had changed plus I knew what it was like to love a tiny baby unconditionally and want to do anything for them. I got the chance to talk over my repusion at the thought of breastfeeding and you know what, it was the most fulfilling feeling of my life.

islandofsodor, thank you for sharing! what a great post, and so pleased that you got your happy ending

Hi there - this is my first ever post on Mumsnet but I felt I just had to respond to the original post. I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and I do realise that this post is not actually answering the original question but I really feel I needed to get this off my chest (oh dear...) so please indulge me. Thisisyesterday - I really felt my blood boil when I saw your post. IMO (and maybe I'm being oversensitive) there's an implicit criticism in what you say. But then that's absolutely typical of the current climate of breastfeeding breatfeeding breastfeeding. When my son was born 5 months ago, he appeared to latch on easily enough. However, after spending literally hours at the nipple he didn't appear to be getting any nourishment at all. After several days, and with no useful help at all from the home visit midwives, his weight had dropped drastically and he was beginning to dehydrate. We were re-hospitalised and he was given formula to stabilise him but I continued to put him on the breast. Back at home, I rang a LLL adviser whose first question to me was, 'How committed to BF your son are you?' I hired an industrial sized pump and I strapped myself into it over and over again. I used a supplemental system given to me by a Lactation Consultant and I took Maxalon which made me feel dreadful. I tried acupuncture, chinese herbs and vitamins. During all of this, I could hear the LLL adviser saying that all women can breastfeed, it's a matter of commitment. I never ever got a single drop of milk.
Over the following weeks I felt a terrible sense of loss, and guilt that I had let my son and my husband down. I felt ashamed to take a bottle out at any mother's groups I attended (and I still do). There have been times when I've had to pack up my baby and my things and leave a mother's group because it has turned into a breastfeeding support group and I haven't felt able to stay.
Five months down the line how do I feel? Angry, mostly. Angry because mothers who bottlefeed are made to feel inferior by the breast feeding lobby. I never knew what a judgemental and competitive arena motherhood could be. I would not have chosen to bottle feed, but if I had another child what would I do? Would I put myself through the same misery again? I just don't know. I have a very happy and healthy child. I've been able to control his reflux far more easily by bottle feeding - and he has slept through the night for a month at least which I put down to the bottle. And as a very shy person, I haven't had to show my breasts in public. You ask why on earth people choose to ff - just take a look at the titles of the threads and how many references to pain, soreness, discomfort do you see?
With the demonisation of formula feeding mothers, I actually admire anyone who has the strength of character to bottlefeed - it's not easy to go against popular opinion.