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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

17 week old and baby rice

283 replies

pamelat · 16/05/2008 09:37

Any opinions?

The health visitor has asked me to wait another week as she is still gaining weight well but she is cranky (and has been for 2 weeks or so), waking frequently at night, grabbing my toast (!) and crying when she cant have it.

I believe she is genuinely hungry, especially at night.

Health visitor said to put her in her own room instead as that could be why is waking so frequently but personally I would rather satisfy her hunger and have her near us?

I know that 17 weeks is meant to be the earliest you start it but what are the negatives for starting it at 17 weeks?

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 22:47

Yep, taking cues from babies - it's how we're designed to parent - it's not new-fangled. Ever had that brain folding in on itself sensation when your baby's crying but you can't get to them for whatever reason? Hormonal - you're fighting a natural response. Some books tell you to do this - madness, proper mental to tell a mother to ignore her instincts. Yet the same sort of book will contain stuff about mothers knowing instinctively when their baby's ready for solids - what a load of wank.

So whilst I didn't pick up at the first snuffle, if I ever left DS2 until he was actually crying, he was nigh on impossible to get back to sleep (and I was all agitated from hearing him cry). Far rather pick him up while he was rousing, feed him back to sleep, get the lovely drowsy hormones myself and snooze for a few hours more.

Sidge · 17/05/2008 22:48

I think it's incredibly unrealistic to expect a small baby (ie a few months old) to go 8-12 hours without something to eat or drink. Their stomachs are the size of their clenched fists and breastmilk in particular is rapidly digested as there is little waste.

I don't go that long without a drink so I wouldn't expect a tiny baby to.

(My DD3 has had a night feed since birth, regardless of how much she has had to eat or drink in the day. She has it because she is hungry. If I withold milk she cries and is unsettled for ages. If I give her milk she chugs it in minutes then goes back to sleep for hours. That implies to me that she needs it, it's not a habit. She is completely different to DD1, who slept consistently all night from a much younger age. All babies are different.)

tori32 · 17/05/2008 22:49

Which is what I said, I also don't leave dd2 to get to crying point. I also said the same about all babies having different needs regarding weaning i.e. some will be ready at 4mths, others at 7mths

kiskideesameanoldmother · 17/05/2008 22:50

tori, will you please stop being selective with your memory. you have admitted that you began sleep training your dd1 at 5 or 6 weeks. she was also fully ffed by the same age as bfing was not working out for you. you mentioned below how her sleep was very poor before this time until you started to, i am partly assuming here, teach her the difference between night and day, echoes of Gina Ford, i understand, because she was continually feeding at night and was not sleeping well in the day or night time. but you have not linked this experience in with the other detail told previously and elsewhere that it was due to what you may now realise was a bad latch so your baby was not feeding effectively.
your recall in this thread has come across with the certain parts of your experience edited out which makes it all sound like early motherhood with your dd1 was a breeze. Lots of mums like myself and yourself recieved bum advice and made stupid moves early days, teh first time round. One reason I post on MN is to help other new mums avoid some of these pitfalls by giving advice based on up to date advice and hopefully, one evidence based information. Sometimes i link in my experience if it ties in with advice and if it doesn't I make that clear to other MNers.

But as i do read a lot of posts on this forum wrt to feeding and sleep, I can remember one or two discussions where you defended some pretty outdated and some plain wrong ideas about breastfeeding and sleep, based on your previous experiences and advice from HV.

As a mother who had some incredibly difficult early days with my own dd, I empathise and have spent a long time sitting on my hands as I know that this sounds like an attack on you.

I am now willing ot take the risk at sounding rude because you cannot give sleep and weaning advice based on your past experiences as the OP is a mum who is in an entirely different place from where you are or have been on this topic without backing it up with some facts from elsewhere. However, if you can find some good peer reviewed, evidence based articles which back up your experience or opinions, I am willing to listen and offer an apology, if necessary.

VictorianSqualor · 17/05/2008 22:51

tori, they physically are not likely to be ready at 4 months, and if they are you won't be able to tell.

Sidge · 17/05/2008 22:56

I meant all babies are different regarding their sleeping habits, not whether they are ready to wean at 4 months or not.

The thing is you just don't know what harm you may be doing by weaning early. You (not you personally just you as in anyone) can say oh I weaned my DD1 who is now 6 at age 16 weeks and she is fine. You need to come back in 30 years and tell us then whether she has Crohn's disease, coeliac disease, diabetes, IBS, ulcerative colitis etc.

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:01

They are all physically different at 4mths, have different rates of development. i.e. my baby who is approx 14lb at 7wks is exceptionally different from my next door neighbours dd who is 7lb 6oz at 5wks. The size of their stomach and maturity of it grows in line with everything else, so it is nigh on impossible to put an age guidance on things. That is why I said follow your instincts about whether LO is ready. FWIW my whole family for generations have been weaned early and with the exception of one grandmother we have no bowel related disorders in the family. I am overweight but this is down to my own poor eating habits, I was slim during my childhood/teenage years. Its anecdotal I agree, however, if the links to these things were so strong I am certain that the link would have been seen in our family.

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:01

Tori, how would anyone know if their baby's ready for solids at 4mo, without the benefit of some internal examining equipment?

Since weaning at six months does no harm to babies and weaning earlier may, isn't it better to err on the side of caution? This is a person's future health we're talking about - for the rest of their lives. For the sake of a couple of months' sleep? Crazy and selfish, imo.

VictorianSqualor · 17/05/2008 23:02

tori, it's not about the size of their stomach that says they are ready for solids, just how much milk they take at each sitting.
It's about the actual stomach and kidneys themselves.

VictorianSqualor · 17/05/2008 23:03

Oh also DS2 is almost 13lb at four weeks, what weight do you think I should wean him then?

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:06

If a baby is not satisfied on milk then imo its cruel to not wean. How would you like to spend your days feeling hungry? There is a point where no amount of milk is enough.

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:08

Why would the World Health Organisation be telling parents the world over to do something cruel?

Where is your research evidence for no amount of milk being enough?

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:09

Obviously you can't put a weight on weaning either, I just wanted to illustrate the differences between babies of the same age. Everything develops at different rates including gut maturity/skeletal development/muscle tone etc,etc. That is why you should go with your instincts IMO.

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:09

And why would a smidge of baby rice or a bit of carrot puree be more filling than milk, which has more calories than either of those things?

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:10

You have a "my baby's gut is now closed and ready for solid food" instinct, Tori? Cor.

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:10

If we were designed to just drink milk we would not have evolved with teeth

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:12

The first ones are called "MILK" teeth, Tori.

And they're not usually present when early weaners start - hence the "my baby hasn't got teeth so we need to puree everything to a thin paste for him" malarkey that so many people fanny about with.

Sidge · 17/05/2008 23:12

It's very unusual for a young baby not to be satisfied with milk though.

The problem is that mums tend to say "oh he wasn't satisfied with his milk so I had to give him solids". What they fail to mention was that they were giving the baby 8 or 9 ounces of milk but not offering more if the baby seemed to still be hungry after the feed. If a baby drinks 9 ounces and isn't settled afterwards then give them more milk! Just because it says on the tin that the guide is xxxx amount of ounces at xxxx weeks doesn't mean you can't give them more!

VictorianSqualor · 17/05/2008 23:12

tori did you realise breastmilk has about 20 calories per ounce? Any idea how much is in baby rice? and how much baby rice actually gets into a babies tummy when you first wean?

Guess what!
BM has more calories, therefore is more filling and more nutritional
Now ain't that just peachy, our body makes milk that our babies need and will satsify them until their body is capable of more!!
WOW!

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:13

Because its about how long food stays in the stomach not calorific content. At the point of weaning the baby is still having the same amount of milk plus the extra calories from food. Its only once weaning is almost complete that food calories superceed milk.

Sidge · 17/05/2008 23:13

Yes and if we were designed to eat solid food at 4 months we would have a full set of teeth at 4 months...

tori32 · 17/05/2008 23:14

Some babies don't get teeth until they are almost 1yo, should we all hold off weaning until 1 then

VeniVidiVickiQV · 17/05/2008 23:15

LOL Hunker

I'd like Tori to have had my DS too

He's made of boing with extra boing.

Audio specialist was asking about him the other day about his hearing test results. I told him that we attempted it 3 times (newborn several times a day in hospital), once at HV clinic, and then referred to neuro-audio clinic that DD is now at because he wouldnt stay still and/or sleep for the tests.

He said, and I quote "why didnt they just do it when he was asleep?". I did a little giggle and said "well, because he just didnt sleep for more than 25 mins at a time.......".

Tori, in your experience, which is fine for your girls, is not good enough for threads like these. Sorry, but kiskidee is right.

Great post from seeker and welliemum too.

hunkermunker · 17/05/2008 23:15

I used to get told "Oh, I had to wean early as I had a very hungry baby" - honestly, you can just sit and say nothing and some people get their justifying their stuff faces on and start banging on...

Because, of course, I only fed mine once a week and kept them in cupboards the rest of the time. Like in soap operas.

Sidge · 17/05/2008 23:15

What?? How long food stays in the stomach?? So if food stays longer in your stomach it's more nutritious?

That's tripe.