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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

who *isn't* ashamed to admit using formula?

635 replies

LookingForwardToSummer · 30/04/2008 11:42

feeling crap after reading the 'exclusive breastfeeding' thread! i find bf really hard and have set myself the target of 5 months, i intend to feel very proud that i went that long and then use formula happily! i can't be the only one! all the stats show low bf rates - so where is everyone?

OP posts:
Dolorescat · 30/04/2008 15:29

The link to bf while working is good but still doesn't take into account the type of hours I do. In 12.5 hour shift I get 3xhalf hour breaks. I have to feed, water, and pee in that time (and on nights sleep!). I have taken my breaks in the toilet since I started back at work so eat my meal in there, have a wee and pump off some milk so that I can hopefully keep some milk supply going as I want to be able to feed ds when I am at home. It seems to take ages to express such small amounts. I wouln't want to store this milk because I feel that milk expressed in a hospital toilet isn't suitable for my baby. Maybe I am being a bit silly about that

nooonit · 30/04/2008 15:32

Thanks AitchTwoCiao. I have ended up following the same path I followed with DD1.

Swore blind I'd "make it" to at least 6 months this time!!!

I'd forgotten that it did all ease a bit when we made it to carrot puree and like you say got "back on track"!!! But since I've had DD1 have now read about baby led weaning...

Perhaps I just ought to stop Mumsnetting and accept the fact that I'm a (reasonably) intelligent, well read woman who can make my own decisions about day to day life chez Nooonit!!!!

hunkermunker · 30/04/2008 15:33

The ones who don't feel guilty often parade through threads like this (and ones where someone's asking for bf support) going, "Oh, fgs, it's not poison, jeez, just give yourself a break, give him some formula!"

And it kinda misses the point that actually, lots of women don't want to be told to ff when they're trying to do what they want to do, which is bf.

Dolorescat · 30/04/2008 15:35

The ones who don't feel guilty often parade through threads like this (and ones where someone's asking for bf support) going, "Oh, fgs, it's not poison, jeez, just give yourself a break, give him some formula!"

And it kinda misses the point that actually, lots of women don't want to be told to ff when they're trying to do what they want to do, which is bf.

Yes I agree with this one. Had enough of those comments in last 8 months from my mum.

margoandjerry · 30/04/2008 16:02

"oh, and wrt to the idea that there are lots of things we should be doing, eating exc organic, never shouting at our kids etc etc etc, why are these put up as unachievable and lined up alongside bfing? that's a cop-out. if i managed to be the sort of person who never shouted at my dd (i amn't) then i could feel justifiably and rightly proud of that, no? or should i think 'oh no, i might get accused of smuggery on MN, i must make sure i fuck things up a bit in order to be deemed normal'.

No you wouldn't do that but you also wouldn't feel the need to start a thread about it either.

margoandjerry · 30/04/2008 16:08

Hunker, this is the snidiest thing I've read on here: "Sorry for making it all serious and trying to help. As you were. Keep on with the snidey backhanders at bfing - love it"

That and this: "however many people trill happy mummy, happy baby at them vacuously"

Vacuously trilling is exactly what a lot of people on this thread are not doing. They are expressing the deep and heartfelt belief that formula was ok for them.

As I've said time without number, I am pro bf and do my best to support people to bf (not on this site actually as I find it too annoying). I would never express myself in the terms you have used.

MilaMae · 30/04/2008 16:11

Not read many of those posts actually can't recall one but I don't read this bit of Mumsnet regularly so could be wrong, happy to stand corrected if that is the case.

I would actually be suprised as would have thought if faced with somebody who wants bfeeding support the vast majority of women would give it or turn them in the right direction if they are unable to give it. Also the vast maj of mums simply don't care how other mums choose to feed their dc certainly not enough to push formula onto them.

If somebody is going through a rough time, reached the end of the line and their tether and wants support when making a decision to switch to formula I personally don't have a problem with people discussing formula and their experiences then-I hope you don't. It's a very vulnerable time and the right support then is equally important.

kiskideesameanoldmother · 30/04/2008 16:18

Mila, when i asked for bf support, i was sorely disappointed by what the hv and mw said. these are the women who are being paid to point me in the right direction if they cannot answer my questions themselves. lots and lots of women on these threads will tell you the same.

likewise, family is one of the worst for telling women to 'give formula' for lots of well meant but none the less demoralising reasons.

no - one told me to ring a careline until i posted on MN. Google became my best friend in those early days.

kiskideesameanoldmother · 30/04/2008 16:19

shit, i meant ring a breastfeeding supportline god would never advise anyone to ring a careline for fear that they thought i meant aptamil's or sma's.

MilaMae · 30/04/2008 16:35

I know I had similar experiences but thats a different thing to mums pushing formula onto other mums who aren't even thinking of going down that route-isn't it?

As you know my family on mothers side always ff but my mum was fab when I struggled with bfeeding. She never said a word until one day I said I just can't do this anymore, do you think a bottle of f would hurt, just so I can see if it's possible to enjoy feeding a baby. She just said of course not but you have to be sure.

Then when the bottles increased and the bfeeding decreased and I was sooooo much happier, she never said a word either way. She just wanted me to be happy, I thought that that's all the vast maj of mums want. I can't believe any mum would push formula onto their grandchildren for any reason, surely they'd just support their dd in any decision they made and want them to be happy.

That's all I ever want for dd, I'll support her every step of the way with bfeeding and equally with formula if that's her choice as that's what it'll be- her choice.

sabire · 30/04/2008 17:03

"there are women who give birth who are very vulnerable for many different reasons. some of them need to be shown how to do these things. "

Yes - which is why ALL bottlefeeding mothers are supposed to be shown one to one how to safely make up a feed by a midwife before they're discharged from hospital after their baby is born. All hospitals will have an infant feeding policy which states that this should happen. The fact that it sometimes doesn't happen is down to staffing issues on postnatal wards, and I agree - it's very bad and dangerous.

That doesn't mean it's a good idea for parents to be shown how to make up bottlefeeds in antenatal classes. The evidence shows that parents shown how to make up bottlefeeds in groups prior to the birth of their baby simply don't retain the information accurately enough to make it safe. And if they've done it once they may think they're on top of it when in fact they're not. Better that they be shown how to do it one to one. Also - there's such low confidence about breastfeeding generally among mothers - teaching bottlefeeding as part of a normal antenatal curriculum for first time mums would undermine this even more.

Out of interest - those of you who think that bottlefeeding should be taught in antenatal classes, apart from teaching how to make up feeds safely what WOULD you teach in a bottlefeeding class? There's so little sound evidence based information on bottlefeeding - what exactly would you include in the sessions?

I can also see that given the limited resources we've got there's also a very good reason for concentrating on breastfeeding - and that's because compared to bottlefeeding, there's very little shared expertise and knowledge among women and healthvisitors/midwives themselves within the community. If you want to bottlefeed then you'll bottlefeed. Not necessarily without difficulty, but you will be able to do it. Not so for breastfeeding.

If midwives tell women they 'can't' talk to them about bottlefeeding because it's 'against hospital policy' they're basically talking our their arses - it's not true. Infant feeding policies at baby friendly hospitals DO NOT ban discussion of bottlefeeding - they simply ban formal teaching of bottlefeeding to mothers antenatally. Midwives who say 'we're not allowed to talk about it' are just haven't actually bothered to read their trusts infant feeding policy properly and so have misinterpreted it. Unfortunately this issue is so misunderstood and it's doing a lot of damage at grass roots level - it prejudices women against the promotion of breastfeeding.

Personally I think women SHOULD be taught about bottlefeeding if they express a wish to know.

I think women should be told everything that is currently known about formula (and what we don't yet know) and making up feeds which could coherently communicated within, say, a two hour session. I suspect that it might shake many people out of their complacency about infant feeding.

"But that is ok. Babies don't vote. they don't pay taxes and they don't work or write letters to MP's. If they die or end up permanently disabled because they got dodgy health advice from a tin, leaflet or 'careline'" This is true. They do deserve better.

Jennylee · 30/04/2008 17:04

hunker is missing the point in another way, all through the pregnancy you are told bf is natural and convenient, that you will learn how to do it, now I did for eleven months, but I'm dreading it 2nd this time around, it bloody hurts EVEN when they are latching correctly for the first while, it took 13 weeks to establish breastfeeding. you have to sit around doing it, at first I could only latch ds lying down, but I only had him, now I have another child to look after, I am worried that I can't just be sitting around breastfeeding all day, I remember the cracked nipples it really really hurts.I remember shivering and not knowing this was because I was not sleeping/eating enough as I never had time, I remember the shock of feeds that took hours. the guilt kept me going and because of that I remember the newborn stage as being awful and filled with pain, I am scared of that more than the birth. And last week I looked at a formula tin - it said newborn 6 feeds in 24 hours as a recommendation and I was in awe - ff get to feed their babies only that many times? no wonder people don't feel guilty - why should they? I am torn with guilt and the baby is not even here, do I have a less shit time and give the baby formula, or do I suffer again just so I can feel like a better mother. the guilt is crap. if there was no guilt about what type of mother I would be seen as I would ff, I wish I hadn't bf as now how can I not bf my next baby, it would be like this one is a lesser person to me? this is pointless, bf can be bloody horrible and hard, that why so many give up in the first week, it is painted as lovely while you are pregnant and then reality hits that is what happens

oxfordmcboing · 30/04/2008 17:09

do what is best for you and baby....consider your physical and emotional needs....

sabire · 30/04/2008 17:14

Jennylee - did you ever see a breastfeeding counsellor about the problems experienced breastfeeding your first baby?

It's NOT normal to have cracked nipples! It means your baby wasn't well latched on.

It's also not normal for feeds to take hours and hours - not after the first few weeks.

Shivering is often down to mastitis - again, another clue that a baby isn't attached well at the breast.

Lots of people carry on struggling with breastfeeding because they and their baby have poor breastfeeding technique. Feeding can be a struggle for all sorts of reasons, but with skilled help many of these things can be sorted out. Sometimes you have to see more than one breastfeeding counsellor - some are better and more sensitive than others.

Don't assume that feeding will be the same this time around - really don't! Different baby for a start!

sabire · 30/04/2008 17:19

Thinking about your awe at reading the back of a formula tin - also wanted to add that according to the Department of Health Infant feeding survey (9000 mums surveyed) ff mums also report problems with ff - albeit in lesser numbers than bf mums. The difference is that while bf mums are more likely to report problems with themselves - sore nipples, pain, tiredness, ff mums are MUCH more likely to report problems with their baby - vomiting, colic, diarrheoa, baby being ill, constipation. Worth a thought.

shinyshoes · 30/04/2008 17:24

stands up Hi I'm shinyshoes and I'm not ashamed to be using forumla
sits back down.

I had trouble BF my first hospital even strapped me to the milking machine
I don't like it.
It dosent feel natural.
It dosen't feel normal and I'd cry whilst doing it.
I'm sure a natural birth helps the production of milk and for it to come down, i had a c-section so I think this prevented it with my first and I had subsequent sections thereafter.

Jennylee · 30/04/2008 17:25

I know, I have calmed down a bit now. the threads are guilt inducing even when they are not intended to be.

Stefka · 30/04/2008 19:00

Hey Jenny I was like you - terrible time, awful pain and I had six specialists come and see me! I got there in the end and it was worth it - I am nervous about baby number two though. Having said that my aunt said her second baby was easy to BF compared to the first. You might not have any problems this time round and you will be so much more knowledgeable about the process too. Well done for getting through it th first time!

kiskideesameanoldmother · 30/04/2008 20:09

Mila, when i was (still) struggling with bfing at 6 weeks, i turned to my female friends and work colleagues (secondary school teachers) who had had children and had bf to greater or lesser extents. All 3 of them told me to give formula, happy mummy = happy baby, the thing was, I wasn't going to be happy to give formula so i kept searching for someone to give me practical support for bfing. One even told me not to phone a bf counsellor because she thought she would just patronise me.

Hulababy · 30/04/2008 20:11

I am mre than willing to admit that DD was given formula from quite early. I had my, very valid at the time, reasons for doing so. I did what was best at the time. DD has not suffered in any way as a result.

kiskideesameanoldmother · 30/04/2008 20:21

"And last week I looked at a formula tin - it said newborn 6 feeds in 24 hours as a recommendation and I was in awe"

Newborn babies should not be fed every six hours, whether bf or ff. they are both to be fed on demand or rather on cue. So another example of dodgy info being given by ff companies. There are varying reasons for this. In addition, in the early days, it can take a ff baby just as long to feed as it does a bf one as I found out. I do know that they can be put on a feeding routine earlier than a bf baby but I am hazarding a guess that it is better for a ff baby to develop his own routine as should a bf one.

Good luck with your one on the way. you are welcome to email or phone me any time of the day or night for whatever reason when you baby gets here.

kiskideesameanoldmother · 30/04/2008 20:23

God, i wonder about my shit typing sometimes.

Full stops and commas in the wrong place and the meaning is totally different:

Newborn babies should not be fed every six hours. Whether bf or ff, they are both to be fed on demand or rather on cue.

hunkermunker · 30/04/2008 20:27

I knew I shouldn't have bothered.

SummerC · 30/04/2008 20:36

I'm not ashamed to admit the formula feeding my dd. She is 4 months old and thriving (translation - she's FAT! hehe). I tried breastfeeding for 3 weeks but was unable to produce enough because of a previous operation.

She was exclusively bf for the first 10 days and then mixed fed until 3 weeks old. I just couldn't produce enough and it was getting to the point that she was demanding a bf every 30 minutes or so.

kiskideesameanoldmother - If a newborn has six feeds in 24 hours, that's every 4 hours, not every 6! That's the schedule my dd is on. From 3 weeks I ff every 4 hours and by 5 weeks she was sleeping through the night.

sabire · 30/04/2008 20:43

SummerC - did you see a breastfeeding counsellor to discuss whether there was any way around the problems you perceived with your supply? Many women think they don't have enough milk because their babies feed very very frequently for the first few weeks - but this is normal. It's what nature designed breastfed babies to do. At three weeks they often have a growth spurt - you can get almost constant feeding then, but it usually slows down after a few days if you just go with it.

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