who *isn't* ashamed to admit using formula?

[LookingForwardToSummer]

feeling crap after reading the 'exclusive breastfeeding' thread! i find bf really hard and have set myself the target of 5 months, i intend to feel very proud that i went that long and then use formula happily! i can't be the only one! all the stats show low bf rates - so where is everyone?

I think it's worth bearing in mind that anyone exaggerating how much judgement of ffers is out there (or here) may inadvertently contribute to increasing other people's guilt and fear of being judged, by setting up an expectation that they will be judged.

What I mean is that a new person who has been primed to expect bfers, for instance, to be mean and judgy towards ffers, is far more likely to read meanness and criticism into posts than they would if they didn't have that expectation set up. If you're expecting a bfer to be thinking nasty judgemental things about ffers, when you read what one says, you're much more likely to assume that's their motivation. If you met them 'cold' without that expectation, then I think you're more likely to take what they say at face value like you would anything else.

It seems to be come a vicious circle - 'everyone knows' that there are horrible bfers out there who want to judge ffers and be nasty about them - so then what becomes the most likely explanation for someone saying e.g. that formula increases the risk of something like an allergy? Why of course that that person just wants to be horrible and insensitive to ffers and 'make' them feel guilty. And that's then another bit of 'evidence' for the fact that people are judgemental, except really it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy...

The effect of exaggeration can be bad for other things too of course - someone posting "I hate the way people always give me dirty looks when I bf in a cafe" could inadvertently set up an expectation in people that they will get dirty looks, and make them afraid to do that.

It's definitely worth trying not to exaggerate even if one is feeling a bit stung and angry for some reason - it could backfire and contribute to the very people whose 'side' one sees oneself as on feeling worse.

I excl bf until 4.5 months then introduced formula.

Totally finished bf a couple of days ago and my ds is 6 months. I am proud to have reached 6 months but also very happy to stop and use formula from now on.

Moth, good post.

hillbilly - that is exactly what i'm planning!

harpsicord - for me it would be odd and wierd to bf a 3 year old - but if other people want to that's fine by me!

I am a ff mother, I am not ashamed, each to their own.

LFTS - I see so your views on this have changed in the last two and a half hours then

really, I think it is bit rich to come on here and insult people and call them "odd" for their feeding choices then to demand support for all sides
please remember that many people read this forum, many people who lurk.

of course you may not much care about offending odd people but they are actual people with actual feelings.

LFTS, but you just said in your earlier post you thought it was weird) (for other people being implied. Which clearly isn't fine for you. This is the kind of tacit disapproval BFers are dealing with on a daily and hourly basis.

The weight of shame and disapproval placed on exclusive or extended or sometimes just mixed BFers far outweighs the sometimes stupid and naive comments criticising formula feeders, but I'm sure this point has been made here many times.

why can't i say that i personally would find it odd to have a three year old on my boob? i would. but that doesn't mean i have a problem with other people doing it.

why can't i say that i personally would find it odd to have a three year old on my boob? i would. but that doesn't mean i have a problem with other people doing it.

to put it another way - if you want to preach tolerance, best to actually practise it

where on this thread or any other is any disaproval at bf expressed?

oh I don't know LFTS, something to do with that you didn't actually say that!?

oh puhleese, LFTS you are very, very naive...

because LFTS that is not what you said
you said
you said "oh, but i do think that bf 3 year olds [NB not just your three year old, and not just for you] is a little odd as they can eat food then. [lfts runs off and hides again]"
.
I think it is pretty hypocritical for someone claiming to support all women's choices
because that really is not a supportive remark
it is a pretty judgmental and unpleasant and intolerant and offensive thing to say tbh

LFTS
on mn I have been told that my feeding choices are
gross
odd (By you, on this thread)
weird (ditto)
child abuse
for me, and not for my child
etcetc
I have to go and do the school run but I can link if you like later

just because you are tolerant of things doesn't mean you have to do them! and i'm not tolerant of bf - i think it's great. but it's great that we can use formula too - thank goodness for our clean water!

being tolerant, imo, means not telling someone their choices are odd
or weird
being tolerant and supportive means not using offensive and unpleasant terms like odd and weird and not insulting other women's choices.

LFTS cna you understand that being told that my feeding choices are odd and weird is capable of making a woman feel crap too.
which is where this thread started

harpsicord, i actually said - "for me it would be odd and wierd to bf a 3 year old - but if other people want to that's fine by me!".

I started this thread because i wanted to hear from women who happily ff - not because i wanted to be shouted at by bfers. I am bf at the moment (as i type in fact) but i don't want to do it for a year and would like to hear from other people who feel the same.

LFTS - no one is saying you have to do something that would make you feel odd. No one is even blaming you for feeling that it is odd to bf a three-year-old.

But it's polite, and tactful, to keep that opinion to yourself, don't you think?

Otherwise claiming to be supportive to all mothers' choices - which is what you ask for in this thread - is a bit hollow.

For instance, someone might think it is (ie you are) 'odd' to set a target of 5 mths as the upper limit of breastfeeding.

But it would be very rude to say so on this thread. And you wouldn't like it.

Do you see?

and fwiw the reason i would find it odd is because i am shy about showing my boobs, anyone older than a baby seeing them would make me uncomfortable (apart from dh) which is my issue!

Ayomi your bf problems sound exactly like mine!!! Turns out that my DS had suffered some neck strain (nothing serious) during a ventouse delivery which is why it was so painful for him to latch on - he had 2 sessions with a cranial osteopath and took to the breastfeeding like a champion - I happily fed for a further 7 months - might be worth a try!!

Oh dear I said my bit and ran off didn't I?
bergentulip yes people do presume your children are automaticaly going to be obese or ill if you ff. My sister exclusively breast fed all her three children and two had asthma and my neice has mild excema.
My ds3, who is 4, had gasterenteritis a few weeks ago and my ds5, 3 months old, had aslight strain of it and was bringing up his feeds. I took him to my gp for advice as I knew I couldn't just let him rest and take give him energy drinks like I was with ds3. She basicaly said 'if you were breast feeding he wouldn't have caught it' . That ian't the reaction I expected from a gp tbh. Anyway they are all fine now but she wasn't very helpful.

"Errrr Sabire you gave a pretty lengthy list of all the ills associated with formula from mental illness to childhood cancer on the other threads I've read.

Lets not split hairs here, Bergen and Ging may not have written it word for word but we all know the general gist of your previous posts."

Yes - and these were given in response to other people's arguments on the thread that it doesn't matter how a baby is fed. My belief is that it DOES - because there's growing evidence that it increases a babys risk of developing a very wide range of both serious and more minor health problems. That was the point of posting this information - not to personally upset people who don't bf!

However - I was talking about risk. I've always made the point that the vast majority of children, both ff and bf would be described as 'healthy' by their parents. Oddly enough, it doesn't matter how many times you make this point or how plainly you say it - the majority of indignant responses will criticise you for saying that 'all' ff babies get ill.

It does make you wonder. It's the same with all the talk about bf 'militants' and 'bf nazis' - you know, those mythical individuals who believe that all mothers should be forced into breastfeeding, that formula should be banned and that all mothers CAN breastfeed - even without help and support. I've personally never actually encountered a single person who's expressed these views - though apparently there are lots of these people around - there must be because you read so many posts from women criticising them their behaviour and their attitudes towards ff mums.

"well, okay, 'bound to develop' has perhaps not specifically been said"

No - quite right. It hasn't been said, or even hinted at.

"not that I have seen, but it is definitely the overall feeling that comes across on some of these threads"

But if it's not been said or implied then you have to ask yourself why you perceive it to be there?

"There is definitely an element of what feels like drip-drip-drip guilt for using formula. But then, that is because I myself do still carry with me this guilt of no longer bf'ing five months in"

With respect - I think this is the nub of the issue.