when i had my last baby a year ago, i honestly thught formula was almost as good as breastmilk

[codhotbod]

didn't realise there was all these risks involved in giving formula, if i had i would of percivered more with the bf.

i bet theeres lots of women that think formulas almost as good.

for as long as HCPs who new mothers turn to , give the wrong information, then for a proprtion, breastfeeding will not be a success. why should women have to critique research papers? it is 10 + years since i had to disseminate information for an essay, why should i have to do it , when i should be able to ask a MW or HV for the right information.....

and if my area of education is not health care related, can i understand those research papers ?

i doubt it !

Lulamama I'm not really thinking that we should all go out and read research papers but we should all be aware that there is conclusive evidence identifying the risks of formula feeding.

You are right that Health Professionals should be better trained but the reality is we spend little time with Health Professionals and much more time with our peers.

It is just my opinion that we should try to move away from the simple ff v bf debates and more towards a honest consensus of baby feeding so that people do choose to breastfeed as the norm and use formula when no other option is available to them.

we should be aware, yes, whether it will make a huge difference is another matter

e.g everyone knows that smoking is dangerous, and very bad for you, it says so on every packet of cigarettes that is sold. yet people continue to smoke... knowing the facts.. so i am not sure that knowing the facts about FF v BF will make that much difference.

i think as a society, we have a lot of work to do to make breastfeeding normal and acceptable. and seen as the norm.

the words of a MW or HV or Doctor , in the early days of motherhood can and do have a huge impact on a mother, more than her peers, and lots of new mums are isolated and alone and the contact with HVs etc might be the only one they have for the first few weeks.. which is when BF support is crucial

Tiktok - why would I be angry with th HV they did all they could and offered much support.

If your saying i'm angry with the mums who I called snotty, then thats wrong their is a world of differance between hurt and anger.

My comments were not intended to be snide but there has always been an argument that breast fed children are healthier and smarter than their bottle fed friends.

Now i'm onto my second child i'm a lot less sensitive and think people should wind their necks in and look after their kids and I will take care of mine, what a differance a bit of experiance makes.

Phatmouse, you say "My comments were not intended to be snide but there has always been an argument that breast fed children are healthier and smarter than their bottle fed friends."

I still don't understand the remark about ASBOs and scabies...when has anyone suggested your kids are at risk of either?

There's no 'argument' about the health risks of formula by the way, but scabies is not one of the risks. ASBOs are unrelated to intelligence, as far as I know.

Your attempts at humour are woeful

this may sound stupid but id really like to know what are the risks with formula?

Can someone please spell out the risks, if indeed there are any? Am intrigued!

breastfed babies get ill too! Just spotted lulumama's post 18/:49 25/03/08.Neighbours breastfed baby has had,every virus, cold, sickness bug going.

risks - the short version

risks - the long version

the website for the first link seems to be down so here is a copy and paste of it.

www.wiessinger.baka.com/bfing/breastvbottle/scary.html
You've probably heard many times that breastfed babies are "healthier". That they have "fewer illnesses." That they have a "special" bond with their mothers. Maybe even that they tend to be "smarter". Some of those reasons may be why you decided to breastfeed.

The scary thing is, none of those statements is really true. Breastfeeding is merely the way human infants are built to eat, just as air is what they are built to breathe, or walking is the way they are built to move when they get older. Breastfeeding is nothing extra or special. Breastfeeding is just... normal.

Fine. So breastfeeding is normal. What's so scary about that? Ah, well if breastfeeding is normal, what happens when a baby is not breastfed? The scary reality is... he's much more likely to get sick, in infancy, in childhood, as an adult. His life expectancy is a little bit shorter and his IQ is a little bit lower. His relationship with his mother is different. In short, he suffers from not having a normal start to life.

You probably know breastfed people who are sicker than many formula-fed people. Breastfeeding is no guarantee. It's like the yeast in bread: every loaf turns out differently, because of different temperature, moisture, timing, kneading. But for any particular loaf, if you leave out some of the yeast it's not going to rise as high as it could.

[b]Here's part of the scary list: [/b]

[b]People who were not breastfed tend to have: [/b]

poorer vision
a lower IQ
more appendicitis
more breast cancer
more hernias
more diabetes
more childhood cancer
less well-developed nerves
a thymus smaller than normal during infancy
a less effective immune system
more trouble with cholesterol
more emotional problems
more intestinal disorders
more allergies
more risk of crooked teeth or underformed jaws
a higher risk of SIDS

[b]Women who don't breastfeed tend to have: [/b]

more premenopausal breast cancer
higher anxiety
lower self-esteem
more osteoporosis
more cervical cancer
less pleasure in early parenting

[b]There are about 13,000 studies showing problems with formula-feeding,[/b] so why haven't you heard any of this before? Maybe someone thought it was too scary for you, that you would feel guilty, that you wouldn't be interested, that it doesn't really matter that much. But wouldn't you rather know now, instead of finding out later?

[b]Breastfeeding. It's just plain normal. [/b]

well must say that made me think

I do think that mums reading that list need an extra few words added:

People who were not breastfed tend to have

list follows

... than they would have had, had they been breastfed

In my experience the big problem with talking about the health issues is that most people seem to have a massive logic deficit. They read a list like that, say 'but I was ff and I'm fine - actually I'm healthier than my friend who was bf therefore those facts are false'.

People need to be made to understand that at the level of the individual it's almost impossible to make health comparisons and come to any meaningful conclusions. For some reason people can accept that this is the case when it comes to other issues, like healthy eating in childhood (can you spot which children in the playground are eating woefully bad diets?) or smoking in pregancy (we all know people who smoke whose babies are healthy) but not when in comes to breastfeeding. There's also a huge amount of misunderstanding about the relevance of mixed feeding - how that impacts on the health stats. I think that needs to be addressed very seriously.

Good point, sabire.

Phatmouse, that's relevant to what you said: "there has always been an argument that breast fed children are healthier and smarter than their bottle fed friends."

That is incorrect, and very insulting to anyone who is pro-breastfeeding. You imply we're going around saying "My children are better than yours, so ner".

The argument is that breast fed children are on average healthier and smarter than they* would have been if they had been bottle fed.

And the evidence for that is so strong that no-one these days can credibly argue with it.