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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

when i had my last baby a year ago, i honestly thught formula was almost as good as breastmilk

189 replies

codhotbod · 25/03/2008 15:30

didn't realise there was all these risks involved in giving formula, if i had i would of percivered more with the bf.

i bet theeres lots of women that think formulas almost as good.

OP posts:
Sabire · 25/03/2008 23:20

"There is little point wishing for the 'risks' of FF to be better communicated to new mothers unless the whole support system for new mums is completely changed"

I think that as long as the choice as to how you feed your baby is seen as primarily a lifestyle issue ("breastfeeding is healthiest for your baby but you have to choose what suits you and your family best")then there will never be the political will or the public pressure to change the whole system.

Sabire · 25/03/2008 23:20

"There is little point wishing for the 'risks' of FF to be better communicated to new mothers unless the whole support system for new mums is completely changed"

I think that as long as the choice as to how you feed your baby is seen as primarily a lifestyle issue ("breastfeeding is healthiest for your baby but you have to choose what suits you and your family best")then there will never be the political will or the public pressure to change the whole system.

Sabire · 25/03/2008 23:31

WThis thread is very encouraging actually.

It shows the stirling work that tiktok, hunkermunker et al have done over the last few years."

I wish they'd hot foot it over onto Bounty and do some of their good work there!

I've been banned from Bounty for discussing the risks of formula feeding!

And not one person ever backed me up - not publically on the boards anyway - I'd get little private messages saying 'well done - it needs to be said', but no open support. People were too scared of being bullied. It's soooooo much more civilised and adult here!

Sabire · 25/03/2008 23:31

WThis thread is very encouraging actually.

It shows the stirling work that tiktok, hunkermunker et al have done over the last few years."

I wish they'd hot foot it over onto Bounty and do some of their good work there!

I've been banned from Bounty for discussing the risks of formula feeding!

And not one person ever backed me up - not publically on the boards anyway - I'd get little private messages saying 'well done - it needs to be said', but no open support. People were too scared of being bullied. It's soooooo much more civilised and adult here!

moondog · 25/03/2008 23:32

That is staggering.
I would go and get things moving (if i had the time nad inclination)

VeniVidiVickiQV · 25/03/2008 23:34

Really sabire?????

jaynz · 26/03/2008 03:41

I agree Sabire, you have to have a starting place and what better point than risks and dangers. Fancy people becoming fully informed - what will nestle do with all their loss of $ then? Maybe make more chocolate

Ever wondered where Bounty gets funding/income.... no surprise you were banned then!

kiskideesameanoldmother · 26/03/2008 06:38

I agree with you on many levels MrsMattie. Can I also say that the breastfeeding helplines which are already out there are not being utilised to anywhere near full capacity.

Part of the problem out there is that many women just don't know they exist, again, I lay a part of that blame on the Health Professionals who work for the NHS. I had awful difficulty in the first weeks with a very jaundiced baby. No midwife, hv or gp told me they existed. I do not think that I am the exception. The only advice I got from my HV was to give formula.

kiskideesameanoldmother · 26/03/2008 06:39

Goodness Sabire, It would rile me so much to be censored and then banned. Look at all the adverts on the site to see why there is no free speech over there.

Sabire · 26/03/2008 07:44

I got banned because other mothers on the board wouldn't allow it to be said openly that there are risks to formula feeding.

They complained to Bounty that I was being offensive and making personal attacks on other members over their feeding choices, and that's why Bounty banned me.

I assume that Bounty never actually read any of my posts because I was always very careful NOT to make personal comments about how people fed their babies.

It was mainly on the debates board. People would start ff vs bf threads and it would tick along quietly with the usual platitudes. The minute I came on and made the point that there were important health issues to be considered, the whole thing would fall apart in a frenzy of bitchiness and accusation. There was some really odd logic going on there - along the lines of 'if I feel a sense of hurt and failure when I read what you say about formula then that's evidence that you've personally attacked me'. So if I raised the issue of say, necrotising enterocolitis in preterm babies I'd come back half an hour later and there'd be someone posting about how vile I was to tell her that she'd risked her preterm baby's life on purpose by not breastfeeding. Everyone would be agreeing with her about what a horrible person I was. Two months later someone would start another debate on the subject and if I posted I'd get a whole load of obscene personal abuse in response - really nasty stuff, and someone would say 'do you remember she told so and so that she told them off for not breastfeeding their preterm baby and tried to make them feel bad about themselves' and everyone else would insist that that's what I'd really said and I shouldn't try to wiggle out of it!

It kind of went on in that sort of mode - with accusation piling on accusation so that everyone lost sight of what I actually HAD said and just responded to other people's reports of it- which were always madly distorted. I've never experienced anything like it - it was a total witch hunt. Someone even sent me private message telling me she'd gone back through all my old posts to try to suss out who I worked for and that she was going to contact my employers and tell them I was spreading malicious lies about formula on the internet!

If I'd made reference to really obscure and unsubstantiated research you could understand some of the anger, but I only ever referred to the most common issues - gastro-enteritis, respitory infections, atopic disease, obesity - you know, all the things that are listed under 'Cons of bottlefeeding' on NHS Direct! They would NOT accept that ff babies have higher rates of these illnesses and got angrier and angrier every time I said it! I was shocked - some of these women are educated professionals who have clearly made the choice to formula feed without the slightest knowledge of the drawbacks for their babies. Incidentally I was always really clear about the importance of women feeling they had a choice, and always acknowledged what a challenge bf can be - that it's not women's fault if they can't bf - that women choose to do what they genuinely believe is best for their babies, based on the information they've been given. I only ever tried to make a point about the quality and breadth of information that's being made available to mothers - not what they did with that information.

The other thing I got banned for was for posting information on the bottlefeeding board in response to one of the many queries about how you prepare a bottlefeed. I explained the new recommendations and was shouted out for 'scaremongering' - despite the fact that I'd pointed out that illness identified as beindg due to contaminated formula was 'extremely rare', involving only a handful of cases in Europe. Not good enough apparently. None of the other ff mums who regularly post on that board had any idea why the recommendations had been changed, or were that clear about what the new recommendations had to say about how to make up a feed, and thoroughly objected to someone they saw as a 'bf nazi' coming on that board and referring to contaminated formula.

There's one mum on the bottlefeeding board who sets herself up as an authority on the subject. She was telling women on the board that she used to make up formula in advance for her preterm baby, sometimes give half the bottle and save the other half and give it a few hours later, and that she'd been told it was fine to do this by a neonatal nurse! Not one person dared to point out that there might be safety issues with feeding preterm babies in this way...... No - there's some serious weirdness going on there and it's very troubling.

pruners · 26/03/2008 07:50

Message withdrawn

SheherazadetheGoat · 26/03/2008 08:02

have only read teh first half of this thread.

i WAS v. keen to bf and researched it etc etc. but assumed i would only do it for 6 months and then move to bottles cos thats what folk do isn't it? then i found mumsnet and realised i didn't have to move to bottles ever. i think this sort of discussion is invaluable to new mothers coming to mumsnet to hear other real mothers discussing their experiences and not just being told to 'top up' their 'hungry big babies' by hv etc who have never bf.

and i think that woman is the unlikeliest looking 'karleen gribble' ever.

helenelisabeth · 26/03/2008 08:18

How I know formula is not as good for babies is my DD2's digestion. She was EBF until 6 months old and I have now introduced a bottle of formula. The constipation has been that horrendous that I have now reverted back to EBF. She has not taken to food yet so I know it is definitely the formula.

wastingmyeducation · 26/03/2008 08:18

'Choice' can be a terrible thing.
I agree that formula should only be available on prescription, but from what I've learnt about doctors from this forum, they would just prescribe it to everyone that wanted it, and taxpayers would end up subsidising SMA et al.
What we need is Jamie Oliver to do a big programme about it. Live on-air taste-testing should get the viewing figures high enough to make a difference?
I have learnt so much from this forum, and have bought a couple of books, recommended here, to swot up from, and made myself a breastfeeding info sheet, with the helpline numbers, the local NCT number and details of the local babycafe on, so I don't have to find this all out if needed when struggling with a newborn. I don't think I should have to do this, and I wouldn't expect every mother-to-be to do this, but the attitude that bottles are simply an option if you don't fancy breastfeeding seems all pervasive and I'm actually expecting a fight when it comes to it, and want to be prepared.

xx

constancereader · 26/03/2008 08:20

Sabire - I feel you are to be congratulated for keeping going on the Bounty site, given the hostility you encountered. I felt incredible frustration on your behalf just from reading your account.

I had terrible trouble bf initially, and resorted to mixed feeding early on. It was finding mumsnet and finally getting some expert help in RL that kept me going - and I am still bf my 15 month old ds as a result of reading threads like these.

StealthPolarBear · 26/03/2008 08:23

Sheherezade I was exactly the same - I'd put up with bf for 6 months, then once I'd done my 6 months I'd move onto the easier, more acceptable bottles.
MN is almost solely responsible for my opinion change. The HCPs were very keen to get me bf (and very good at it I must add) but MN is one of the few places IME where it is widely accepted that you continue until a year and beyond.

SheherazadetheGoat · 26/03/2008 08:31

i remember talking about getting a high chair for dd at 6 months and my sister dryly asking 'what for? can you breastfeed her in it?'.

AussieSim · 26/03/2008 09:01

I know a woman who is a friend of a friend. She was once a professional gymnast I think and still works in that area. Since she fell pregnant she has been dieting and exercising so that you can barely tell she is pregnant at 30 weeks. She decided early in her pregnancy not to breastfeed as she didn't want to ruin her figure. I am apalled and I think there are many people who FF for the same reason.

The media and body image and partners have a lot to answer for for this kind of thinking, but I always think to myself - by the time you have been pregnant for 9mths and then given birth and dried up your milk the damage to the boobs is pretty much already done. You might get the tone back a bit sooner than a woman who breastfeeds but that is about it - wouldn't you say? I think some open discussion on this sort of largely unvoiced concern would also be helpful to the BF cause.

belgo · 26/03/2008 09:06

Aussiesim - breastfeeding helps the body return back to normal a lot faster. The uterus contracts faster and the waist gets back to normal faster, particularly if you watch what you eat.

It's ironic that the gymnast doesn't know this. I've known women to become very very slim through breastfeeding. (not me, but them I eat too much. But I did notice my waist becoming very slim).

This was in fact the major reason I wanted to breastfeed (vanity)

Notyummy · 26/03/2008 09:19

I second what Belgo said. I was one of those people that the weight fell off when breastfeeding. I exericied regularly from 3 weeks post partum, as had done right through the pregnancy, and the weight (I put on 2 1/2 stone) dropped off. By 4 1/2 months, I was lighter than I had been when I got pregnant. I am quite controlled about body image/exercise, but I only ever saw breast feeding as positive in that way, because it helps regain your figure, and burns 500 calories a day.

I must just add before you think I am a freak, that I did eat those 500 calories in the form of cake...and still lost weight. Hows that for a selling point??

kiskideesameanoldmother · 26/03/2008 09:40

Sabire, I will nominate you for sainthood. you have more patience than I.

JingleyJen · 26/03/2008 09:47

www.breastfeedingtaskforla.org/ABMRisks.htm how do I find out how they came to these conclusions?

dejags · 26/03/2008 09:51

This thread is actually a great one.

As somebody who falls in the 5% of women who cannot physically breastfeed, I have to live with the fact that my children had less than the "best" start to life. It gutted me for years and I believe it contributed to PND after DS1 was born.

Despite my feelings of failure, I no longer react sensitively to this type of post. I see it is a very positive thing, each and every single time this subject is raised.

It's such a shame that the media gets in the way .

helenelisabeth · 26/03/2008 09:53

Notyummy, I too am back down to lighter than I was pre-pregnancy which I do credit to BF. I also have had to do little to lose it. I think it has convinced a couple of my pregnant pro-formula friends to try breastfeeding! Vanity always wins!

tiktok · 26/03/2008 09:53

kiskidee, where have you heard this:

"Can I also say that the breastfeeding helplines which are already out there are not being utilised to anywhere near full capacity.
"

So not true! The NCT line is at capacity - we now keep up with all the calls and call backs we have to do, but it has taken 7 years to get to this stage. The other lines, as far as I know, are working to capacity, too, as far as I know. Most mothers who call the other lines do not get through to speak or leave a message and have to try again.

That is not to put anyone off calling - the NCT line ticks along just fine at the moment, but if we suddenly got , say, 50 more calls a day, we couldn't manage.

There is far, far less help available than is needed, everywhere, though things are a lot better than even 5 years ago, with more support groups, peer counsellors and so on.