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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Breastfeeding is not best - Dr Karleen Gribble

333 replies

fabsmum · 21/03/2008 10:52

Love this video

OP posts:
bb99 · 26/03/2008 10:11

Nancy,

No-one has said that formula should be banned, the original report states that ALL the facts should be made available to women, and currently this is NOT the case, as women are give the impression that Breast is Best and therefore something above and beyond the NORMAL way of feeding.

Through implication this then infers that FF is the normal thing to do for your infant, when it just isn't, if you look at the way that mammals are designed to feed their young. We have mammary glands for a reason above and beyond looking sexy!

FF is a substitute for when BF is not possible (and no-one here is IMHO being judgey about whether people should bf or ff)

The original point of this debate is about how to turn the rhetoric around, not to make ff an evil activity that should be frowned upon - I've not come across many opinions that aren't pro-choice on here, BUT so that BF becomes tha baseline assessment for judging infant nutrition.

If you are pro ff, and that is a personal choice, then even if bm was used as a baseline it would be good for ff babies too, because it would further encourage formula companies to refine their products and therefore improve the nutritional benefits for ALL babies, regardless of whether they are ff, bf or mf.

How can you disagree with improving the nutrition of all children?

Also if the facts were presented in a more (IMO) honest way then all womankind could benefit from the preventative affects of BF, or at least make a truly informed decision.

I'm lucky, I BF for an extended period of time, it was pure chance that I have reduced my personal risks of a variety of potentially life limiting conditions. Other women aren't as fortunate BUT they should have been given the choice. It may have helped some women to persevere with what can be a distressing and frustrating experience. Skills training for ALL should be available...

The government makes enough of a fuss about advertising the benefits of exercise to the wider population and how this could REDUCE the risk of heart disease, so why not publicise the facts about BF, even if you only believe it is a 3-4% reduction.

I agree with you that people should be treated with enough respect to allow them to form their own decisions. They need the information to do this. I firmly believe that the true facts on bf and ff are NOT being made available to women, men or children and this is a patronising and dis empowering thing to do!

bb99 · 26/03/2008 10:24

tic tok - how did you become so wise? I wish I had known about your wisdom 4 months ago so I could have pointed my sil in your direction!

Sabire · 26/03/2008 10:37

Nancy - why don't you try www.bounty.com

You're not allowed to say unfavourable things about formula there.

They also have a policy of infant feeding apartheid there so the bottlefeeding and breastfeeding boards are separate.

You might find it a bit more comfortable.

That said - the quality of information you get there is shocking compared to mumsnet. Seriously duff.

But even so. Lots of mums feel safe there because there's so much informal censorship.

Descartes · 26/03/2008 10:52

swc, if someone flounces they get a g'byeee from me, a wholehearted one. it's a ridiculous response to a ridiculous post.

there's no way on earth that nancy has been respectful to others on this thread, she has persistently been disrespectful, talked unsubstantiated nonsense and when challenged has simply insulted or been ratty with people on here for asking for links. she also ignores solid points made by others because they don't meet her theory that these boards are, what, pro-bfing? a terrible sin.

she has concluded that the lack of ffing advice on MN is because we are all too pro-bfing, which is a poor conclusion and ignores yours, mine and others posts but it suits her theory so that's great for her.

so really, g'byeee. if she had chops she'd stick around but she's flounced because no amount of discussion was going to make her change her mind. whatever...

Descartes · 26/03/2008 10:53

bye the way, nanc, if you're reading... you did see that i ff, didn't you? so in fact i don't have a bfing axe to grind? oh no, that's right, you ignored that.

bb99 · 26/03/2008 11:05

Hey everyone - beware of ff company infiltrators ...I am starting to get a bit suspicious about the way some bf / ff threads are sidelined especially when the individuals choose not to respond to perfectly reasonable questions like, what is your position, why do you disagree etc.

It would be VERY inexpensive to trawl the net and gauge feelings on this subject, plus interject a degree of misdirection and dissent in order to preserve the multi-million profits.

A majority of us agree that breast is NOT best, but normal.

How could we start to lobby / press for change in an effective way? Or how could we get the message out there?

I'm writing to my mw who WAS very helpful and informative about bf in a kind of vague way (she nearly had a fit when she thought I was expressing for an evening feed, as she explained it would duff up my supply ! And was almost a bit too interested in our latching on technique, but it was helpful)

I'm also going to write to my Primary Care Trust, Maternity Unit and MP.

Anyone know of any other lobbying that's going on?

bb99 · 26/03/2008 11:06

No. I'm NOT paranoid, it's just everyone's out to get me

Descartes · 26/03/2008 11:23

AND i note that i actually said 'you're being a nut' not 'you're a nut'. i was clearly stating that it was a temporary, not a permanent condition and you have again misrepresented a post on MN.

it was in response to your most people ff but they're not represented with threads on these boards point. because that is a bonkers position, clearly.

by the way, does anyone know? is it true that most MNers ff? my impression is strongly that most MNers give bfing a shot at least. was there anything in the MN survey?

princessmama · 26/03/2008 11:56

Nancy seems to have the assumption that Mumsnetters are a representative sample of mums as a whole, which I don't think is true.

Walnutshell · 26/03/2008 12:00

actually princess, I got the impression she made the opposite assumption

wingandprayer · 26/03/2008 12:11

I think I've learnt more in the last hour reading through this thread than I ever knew about the whole ff v bf debate before.

I only bf my two kids for 3 weeks each, the first because of PND and medication, the second because DS was lousy feeder and I could not get good enough advice to support me through it. I've always been very anti the "breast is best" argument because I always thought it implied I was only doing second best, and why should be made to feel like a second class Mum for not being able to bf? This thread and the Mind Your Language article has made me see things in a whole new light. I think the wording should be changed and proper debate about bf v ff should be allowed because only then can people make informed decisions. The "Don't mention ff and it will go away" antenatal class attitude of last few years has only managed to increase ff levels. The pros and cons of the different methods speak for themselves if they are allowed to do so properly and in unambiguous terms and without marketing babble.

But how commited is the government really to this issue? The manufacturers sponspor the government to the tune of millions of pounds per year and act as govt advisers. Breastfeeding thrives with good community support, yet they are cutting down on health workers and there's a massive shortage of midwives. They may have introduced legislation so you can feed anywhere, but what use is it if people have given up long before they get the opportunity?

StealthPolarBear · 26/03/2008 12:48

bb9 that's what I was asking
What can we do, because I'd like to be doing it!

Aitch · 26/03/2008 13:46

have you seen www.howbreastfeedingworks.com, it's hunker's site, she's involved in a bit of local lobbying.

tiktok · 26/03/2008 14:10

Wonder if Nancy has seen any of today's threads, which include posts from women who are or who have been formula feeding, and seen the support and non-judgemental info shared with them?

Aitch · 26/03/2008 14:16

nancy's flounced tiktok, she won't be coming to this section of the site again, oh no. which will work out marvellously for her, as it will mean that she won't have to read more and apologise for her character assassination of a board and the people on it that does a shit-load of good work helping to support women as they feed their babies.

so, does anyone know if MN as a whole is representative of the countrywide bfing/ff stats?

tiktok · 26/03/2008 14:46

Shame about Nancy....

You know, I think I have been on mumsnet about four years, and in all that time, I have seen maybe half a dozen posts which have been unpleasantly judgemental of women who ff, and maybe half a dozen more which are naively judgemental (that is, 'I really don't know why women use that horrid formula - breastfeeding is so lovely and easy, why don't more women give it a go?'), and both types are jumped on pretty quickly by the usual suspects and others. I have seen far more which are sneering about breastfeeding supporters.

I have seen squillions of posts which are supportive and non-judgemental, and many of these do this while managing to be honest about the research and evidence.

As for the demographics of mumsnetters, I suspect there is more breastfeeding and more exclusive breastfeeding and more breastfeeding beyond the first months than there is compared to UK-wide stats. That's just my impresh.

Aitch · 26/03/2008 14:49

oh and i've been there, doing the jumping...

that's my impression too, btw, i imagine that a lot of people come to MN by googling for bfing stuff.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 26/03/2008 16:40

Oh yes, definitely more sneering at b/feeding supporters. Much use of the words "nazi" "militant" "brigade", "freaks" "weirdos" "abuser" (last three in reference to feeding a child longer than 6 months) banded about.

Hey ho.....

FioFio · 26/03/2008 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

tiktok · 26/03/2008 16:54

You forgot 'smug'......

girlfrommars · 26/03/2008 17:09

Do you get badges?

I'd like a militant weirdo one please.

Perhaps a secret club ring....

VeniVidiVickiQV · 26/03/2008 18:13

No, but we have a secret handshake

Well, nork-shake....

Fio, I thought your other posting name was "Saint Perfect Of Martyrdom"???

AND, have you been eating plenty of DUST and drinking lots of water recently????? [stern look]

MamaMaiasaura · 26/03/2008 21:47

only just come back to thread. THanks for comments re my post tiktok. I had read in penelope leach about boosting milk supply and as my friend had said that is what had happened i had assumed that it was possible.

I have tended to avoid this whole area of mn as it seems to get so heated but since have ds2 and bfeeding again i am become more confident that i have made the right choice for me. Also friends and family (not all mind) who ff have said they wished they had more support and how lovely it is to see how healthy and happy ds2 and i are. I simply love bfing, wasnt easy to begin with but so glad i perservered.

Dp is so amazingly pro bfeeding, he reads all the articles and has been following this thread too. He said he would prefer me be home, feeding our babies and giving them the best start we can than have loads of material things. Bless him

bb99 · 26/03/2008 21:48

Can I join the weirdos sect?

Thanks for the link to action Aitch.

137wallis · 26/03/2008 22:13

ah me too I want a secret snork shake! and can we get badges too pleeeeeeeease! I'm going to bed now but will have a good read of the doing something bit in the morning, as I would love to get involved in something pro bf