Breastfeeding is not best - Dr Karleen Gribble

[fabsmum]

Love this video

Inspired by the music of queen?
Inspired by fairy dust?
Inspired by fluffy bunnies?

Too true terramum. Inspired by money.

inspired by breastmilk drives me round the freaking twist... lol at elephant tears.

Sorry moodymummy, I can never get the hang of the emoticon. Was only joking about Aptamil's poor attempt at writing meaningful advertising copy.

no i agree, using "inspired by" to sell something is a bit crap really. But I'm pretty sure its not the waste from the dairy industry (to terramum) why would i feed my ds that? I'm not actually stupid even though i don't breastfeed anymore!

Nancy - you have some interesting points to make. I'm baffled as to why you've kept quiet for such a long time on this subject though.

Just to pick up on something you said earlier though; breastfeeding doesn't prevent diabetes. Not breastfeeding increases the risk of developing it. So, it's fair to say that either formula doesnt prevent the development of it, or, it causes it.

Breastfeeding is the norm. It is the control aspect. There are no benefits to breastfeeding because of this fact.

Breast feeding will decrease the chance of type 1 diabetes in children where there is already a strong family history - yes, that's true.

My agrument was that it is not relevant to type 2 diabetes.

it's not fair at all to say that formula causes diabetes - it's completely inaccurate.

I've kept quiet on the subject because there are too many people with closed minds on this site who are convinced that they know all the facts.

this section of the site is supposedly for bottle and breast feeding. Statisfically more women choose bottle than breast but you'd never know it from Mumsnet. Every time a bottle feeder puts a point across she gets shouted down. If she asks a question about formula she gets asked why she's not breast feeding. Hardly helpful.

Just read another thread with some ranting woman quoting the craziest statistics and claiming that formula feeders are a drain on society.

Nancy, please get your facts right.

The infant formula manufacturers took the government to the high court so they could argue their case for avoiding changing labelling. Non-compliant labelling will continue for the near future.

This page gives details of the case.

This has nothing to do with breastfeeding and everything to do with the ethical and safe marketing of formula - why would you not want formula feeding mothers to have access to good, honest, clear, and informative labelling, and to have information rather than slogans and ads?

How did I get my facts wrong?

The organisation you refer to object to the use of a polar bear in advertising as it's an 'idealised image' - hardly rational is it?

I'm glad the companies fought the decision. I hope they go to the European Court of Human Rights next.

"Every time a bottle feeder puts a point across she gets shouted down. If she asks a question about formula she gets asked why she's not breast feeding. Hardly helpful."

BULLSHIT

I am not referring to the organisation - I am referring to the court case, where the government fought (unsuccessfully) an attempt by the manufacturers to continue with non-compliant labelling (spurious health claims, illegal slogans). You will still see non-compliant labelling, because the manufacturers won a deferment.

I repeat: "why would you not want formula feeding mothers to have access to good, honest, clear, and informative labelling, and to have information rather than slogans and ads?"

Descartes, I agree...utter bullshit, and Nancy was the person who dismissed points with the word 'bollocks' downthread....no arguements, just 'bollocks'.

Descartes - true. Read the threads.

Tiktok - They HAVE got information to facts if they choose to read them. I think the labelling is already clear and honest. As I said before - all formula manufacturers go out of their way to stress that BF is better for your child. What more can they do? They are selling a product - do you expect them to say it's shit?

Should a Mars Bar come with a warning saying: 'you'd be better off eating an apple' ? Should new cars have 'if you drive over 100mph you might die' on the windscreen.

Effectively it's saying that we should have freedom of choice, oh, but there really is only one choice.

Nancy - I've read many many threads. It's just not true.

I'd like you to read them again and see. Perhaps you could even come back with some links of where every time a "bottlefeeder" speaks up, they get shouted down.

As for them being honest and having correct labelling - a case in point recently:

Cow and Gate had produced some cartons of ready milk follow on milk. The directions for use incorrectly indicated that 4 x the 'recommended' daily amount be given. It was a mistake. They refused to recall their product. This kind of thing sucks when we are talking about infant-toddler nutrition. Parents rely on companies to provide accurate and informative packaging with their product. There will never be a situation where I will ever think this kind of ruthless unscrupulous business activity is fair on parents or their children and I'm happy to bleat on about that.

I asked for clarification on some information in graphs on a formula company's website a while back. They refused to provide the information to back up the pretty graphs. It was just a colourful image demonstrating that (allegedly) their product was "closer to breastmilk" than other products.

Do you really advocate this kind of marketing bullshit?

i have read them and it is bullshit. you're insulting our intelligence now.

Veni...i don't think it is marketing bullshit. If they were saying 'exactly like breast milk' then yes, fair enough. But they're not.

Descartes - i've just been reading a very hostile thread where a woman suggests that formula feeding women are a drain on public funds. Before that I read a thread on a woman that was concerned about her sickly bottle fed child - she was asked why she wasn't breast feeding.

The truth (and I am not saying this to be controversial) is that this section of the site would make me less inclined to breast feed - not more. So if you're aim is to convert then I am afraid you are all failing miserably.

two threads to characterise the whole site, oh yes, that's reasonable. and the aim on here is to support, not convert. that's what i see day in, day out.

actually, can you link to these threads, i can't find them.

No, Descartes those are the two threads at the top apart from this one. You asked for examples i gave them - the response of 'yeah well, they're not representative' is one I expected and entirely in keeping.

The TTC and pregnancy aspects of the site are very good and informative and supportive. This section lets it down.

No, what they are suggesting is that their product is superior to another milk. When in fact they have little or no evidence (that they'll happily share) to prove this.

Formula milk is undoubtedly a product that parents need for the babies in various circumstances. Why do the formula companies feel the requirement, therefore, to spend approximately £20 per baby in this country on marketing for their product - if it doesn't work? By your reckoning, that's daft business sense.

As for folk being put of b/feeding by this site - i'd say that the opposite was in fact the case. Women on here have received far more help than they would have received without it to b/feed. I dont fully understand what is unreasonable about asking someone why they arent b/feeding. (Obviously the tone of the question is a factor, but actually asking the question - nothing wrong with that).

When you consider that something like 84% of women start out wanting to b/feed, and after a few weeks that statistic of those still b/feed has more than halved (tiktok - please correct me as appropriate) - it does beg the question as to what is going wrong, surely?

A reason not to BF that I had no answer for, any thoughts? 49 messages. Latest Wed 26-Mar-08 00:44:54 from smallwhitecat Add Watch

Breastfeeding is not best - Dr Karleen Gribble 271 messages. Latest Wed 26-Mar-08 00:44:43 from VeniVidiVickiQV Add Watch

Help! 4 day old baby not latching on 19 messages. Latest Wed 26-Mar-08 00:05:27 from skidoodle Add Watch

when i had my last baby a year ago, i honestly thught formula was almost as good as breastmilk 82 messages. Latest Tue 25-Mar-08 23:34:44 fr

these are the top four threads, not one of them is as you describe. it's you who is mis-representing the site, nancy.

Surely the difference here is that we're talking about feeding babies. This advertising is targeted to suggest that formula is a perfectly engineered substitute for breastmilk.

Would Mars be allowed to suggest that if you don't have an apple handy, their chocolate is the best alternative?

Would car manufacturers be allowed to suggest that although the official guidance is to drive below 70mph, wearing a seatbelt, 100mph without a belt can be a healthy alternative?

They are selling a product. They are concerned with profit. There have been calls to ban food adverts that target children. These adverts target food to/for babies

I dont know about the TTC & pg boards - I dont venture over there. Clearly you do, so of course I take your opinion of them as one more experienced than mine, albeit at face value.

This isnt a board you have posted on before, and, I have to say, your opinions are not representative of what goes on, day in day out.

If women were hounded, harrassed or harangued into b/feeding, or, personally attacked for formula feeding, MNHQ would have taken steps to deal with it by now.

There will of course, always be one or two folk that will express opinions such as you purport to be rife on here. They arent ones I support. But they really are in the minority, and if you read and post on these boards as much as I have, and even more so tiktok, and aitch and lulu, then I dont see how you could honestly hold that view. It seems that your view point is biased.

"he response of 'yeah well, they're not representative' is one I expected and entirely in keeping. "

actually, this is not untypical of your behaviour here... no one has said they're not representative. i can't find them, for a start. but don't for a minute let that stop you from responding as if your point had been answered, and not to your satisfaction.

Read the 'reason not to BF' thread for god's sake.

Why do you think so few bottle feeding women post in this section? isn't it a little bit odd when, statisticlally, they are in the majority?

Girlfrommars - the ads aren't aimed at the baby are they? They're aimed at the mother.
The call to advertise foods targeting children was where the advertiser targets the child wathcing children's Tv.