'White women can't breastfeed'

[TheDevilWearsPrimark]

Feel free to be outraged as I am fuming about this.

My best friend has been struggling with breastfeeding her PFB. Her health visitor has referred her to a breastfeeding councilor, which I am pleased and amazed at as I was never offered anything like that.

She is worried that her DD is slightly dropping on the charts and under ill advised pressure from her mum who keeps suggesting she try formula.

I have just called her and she seemed really low. I tried to do my best to help, letting her know how it can be hard at first but it may well happen that it clicks into place and becomes the naturally easy thing we are led to believe it is. But then mentioned that something she overheard on the maternity ward has been troubling her.

She went to the loo late at night and overheard two midwives talking, one of whom had been really helpful in showing her how to correctly position and latch etc. They were laughing and one said 'These white women just can't breastfeed, they have lost their mothering instinct. I bet half these babies are on formula tomorrow'

I feel so sad that this has upset her so much. Personally I would be furious and would have let them know I heard them and given them a piece of my mind, but I understand why she didn't. It seems so horribly unprofessional, and even if they were joking around it is worrying that people in that position could have such an attitude.

red admiral- excusing racism just because it is from black people is intolerably patronising and insulting. I am sure that people of different colours would find this remark ignorant, too.
I think if you are white you can still understand racism.
You are quite wrong on this.

I must agree. There are people living in some areas in fear of racism, it happens across the board. There are black people living in small towns who face it and white people living in predominantly asian areas who are racially targeted. There are also the ridiculous stereotypes, such as the polish are great cheap builders. It isn't something that should be accepted ever and it shouldn't be allowed in an environment such as a maternity ward.

well, tell your friend half of MN is white (am assuming ehre) and half of us prob BF our babies, so the woman is talking out of her rectum.

i'd put a complaint in.

The OP said one of the midwives had been very helpful to her friend re. breastfeeding. I am sure that if she's struggling it's more to do with her mother buying formula and bottles than an overheard comment on the maternity ward.

Come on, all you who work or have worked in the public sector. Are you honestly saying you've never made a sarky comment about your client group when you didn't think anyone was listening?

(sorry didn't read the rest of the thread - but to my mind there is absolutely no room for racism or discrimination in any forms in any of our hospital and health services - esp in a maternity ward where the mother is feeling very vulnerable as it is.)

I'm going to dip out here because this is not really what the thread is about.

I did say it's not an area I feel comfortable talking about. It's like men lecturing me about feminism.

(By the way, I hope you don't make any distinction between sexism from a woman or from a man though.. we COULD have a good argument about that if you do...

Janni, do you? And have you?
As I said what my mum overheard has bothered her since. I understand health professionals are under a lot of pressure but that shouldn't give them free reign to comment and bitch about their patients.

I used to be a mental health nurse. I was extremely kind and caring to my patients but yes, there were times when the staff had a laugh together to let off steam and I think that's what was going on here. If you'd said the midwife had made any such comment to your friend I would have been outraged but you said she'd actually been helpful, which is more than some midwives are re. breastfeeding.

I have said I think it was stupid to say it where she could be overheard.

My first midwife told me to my face I shouldn't bother trying to breastfeed the first night if I'd never done it before. My mother told me to give him a bottle when I was having a hard time.

I fed each child for 20 months. If you're determined you can usually do it and I think that's what you need to be instilling in your friend

TheDevil - that WAS a horrible thing for the student to say about your mum, absolutely no excuse - it was a personal insult, within earshot.

Janni - yes staff do discuss pts/experiences we have had in hand overs or debriefs but usually the focus is how it has impacted upon staff eg im tired not being derisory about pts.

gossiping at the nurses station is unprofessional

Do you mind telling me what part of the country this was? DH is employed by the NHS precisely to prevent this type of racial stereotyping, unfortuntely it is a new initiative and there are only 500 of them countrywide so far. I suppose that at least the NHS realises it goes on and is taking steps to change attitudes...

She is in Sunderland.

TDWP, I'am appaled that your friend had the misfortune of overhearing such utter tripe, and at a time when she felt so very vunerable.

I'am truly shocked that anybody actually thinks this is anything other than racism. They were'nt making cultural remarks, white is'nt a culture.
My dictionary definition of racism is. 'The belief that one racial group is inferior to another and the practices of the dominant group to maintain the inferior position of the dominated group.' And apart from the fact that its racist its deeply uncaring and very unproffesional that they're standing around laughing and patronsing such a vunerable client group in with such blatant disregard for whoever hears them.

umm not sure that it was racist
it wasn't white women can't breastfeed but those white women can't.

If it wasnt racist why was it neccesary to point out the fact that they were white? Why did'nt they say these modern day women, these women i've seen lately?
As for losing the mothering instinct WTF?

DevilWearsPrimark - was it at The Royal, my friend had her ds there last year and she said the MWs were awful, really unhelpful. Her ds wouldn't latch on and none of them would help her so she ended up ffing, and suffering a lot of unnecessary discomfort

I don't think many people have said it's not racism.

The previous argument was about whether a racist comment varies in effect depending on whether you are part of the dominant group or not.

And within the microcosm of the postnatal ward I think the midwives wield a lot of power - hence I find their prejudice disturbing.

It think the comment was appalling racist crap and I am surprised by the people towards the beginning of the thread who seem to think it is sort of ok.

No, thankfully 'many' people have said it's not racism.

Er not sure what you mean - I just wanted to clarify what I'd said... I think it definitely counts as racism.

It's not just poor DWP's friend we're talking about - if that's their attitude it's going to affect other mums who go through that dept.

Sorry Red think we've got our wires crossed! I actually agree whole heartedly with you and was saying i'am thankful that its only the minority.
Trying to get two live wire dc's ready for bed at min so probably spouting rubbish!!

I thought so

(That that's what you meant - not that you are spouting rubbish

No,its okay i'm a big girl i can take it!

I once got told my nightmare experiences of bf were because I was "so pale." By a white woman, I hasten to add... Thought for a minute there this thread was about the same thing!

What bothers me about their comment is that it's so self-fulfilling.

They're the ones helping new mums to start breastfeeding. it's such a vulnerable time.

If they think white women can't breastfeed, then by absoultely no concidence at all, white women won't breastfeed.

Completely unprofessional IMO.