how as a nation/society can we normalise bf

[robinredbreast]

these boards really make for sad reading,esp all the ill informed advice thats been posted in the last few days from hv gp etc

how are we going to improve things for us and future generations?

what are your ideas?

hmm... let mums do what they are comfortable with? maybe make their OWN informed decision...

How, Sixer?

My ideas are many and various and it's too late to start now. But Sixer, if you're going to say "leave women alone to do what they want" I just want to say that's what happens now and there are thousands of women out there now who have been utterly let down by that way of doing it. Because they can't do "what they want" - because what they want to do (in the main) is bf and the HCPs largely aren't set up to support them.

also sixer why not try to change things to help the 9 out of 10 women that stop bf before they are ready?

Maybe they dont feel comfortable sixer, because b/feeding isnt deemed as normal?

I was in Ethel Austin today and saw baby's bibs with 'Milkoholic' on ... with a picture of .... a cow with a baby's bottle.

I was going to put it on its own little thread. I have nothing against bottle feeding but this sort of thing does seem to normalise and enforce the idea that baby's milk comes from a cow!!

totally agree. With added stress that BF is best.But you can/find it difficult or it hurts etc etc i'm sure you've heard this all before and more. It's stress you (as a new or even experienced mum don't want to go through ). I am pretty sure MOST mums know BF is best. great, would love to, however it just doesn't fit all. Whats best, a stressed out mum worrying about food, breastfeeding, calories, weather she can she have a night out after 9 months, onions, garlic, pumping oh i'm sure you know the list goes on, or breastfeed with good intentions, do your best, but if it's not right for you and baby, try other means?

Sixer - if appropriate and sufficient support was in place - none of the things you mentioned would be a real hinderence to mothers. THAT is the problem.

FBG, it all does.

° Greetings cards with baby bottles on.
° Dolls with bottles.
° Bibs and other assorted baby clothes with bottle logos on them.
° Baby changing/feeding rooms with a bottle logo on them.

It's just the general assumption that if you have a baby, they'll be ffed.

Mind you, most are at some point or another (92% of babies in the UK have formula), so this is all about changing attitudes across the country, not just of those doing the feeding.

Dont forget the baby Dolls fed green slop so they can shit!

So the young mum that is really suffering and isn't as hard as she would like to think, "you know what i mean right", wouldn't have to suffer, and it would be hunka dory and she would naturally breastfeed with no problems?????? lovely. I am sure most mothers would want too. IT'S just not right for everyone, like nuts!

Look, MW's in this and other Europian countries do their BEST to promote BF. Most mums give it a go when first born, and know damn well it's supposed to be best for their new borns and do BF. It's just not for everyone. Why is that difficult to understand?

Sixer, you're woefully misinformed that midwives do their best to promote bf in this country. Some do, yes.

And I'm not talking about women who don't want to bf. I'm talking about the 80% who DO desperately want to bf and are let down because of the massive lack of support.

Why is that so hard to understand?!

Sixer. No-one is saying it's easy. The point is that many many many HCP's arent making it any easier, and in fact, in many cases - are making it worse by undermining women.

hunker, I eagerly await you starting to produce baby dolls that come with a big toy breast!

I just want to be able to do cool bullet points like Hunker

[shallow]

So Most mums (me included desperatly want to). We couldn't, I was crap, lack of patience, (had older DS that wanted time), lack of partner support, crap need doing, lack of milk, dinners, cleaning, sleep. Throw stones at me for not sticking with it. I, and many others can't. There will NEVER be support for parents like us, it's just not possible. It's like providing a guardian angel to all those that desparatly want to give up smoking, achohol, drugs...

oh I did very successfully BF DS1 for 6 months. Before you start jumping me for being an anti.

Sixer, nobody here is going to throw stones. There are all too many people here who know exactly what you've been through.

As your story shows, support is crucial. But it's not a pie-in-the-sky idea. In Scandinavian countries the percentage of women successfully breastfeeding is in the high 90s. They have their problems like anyone else, they're not superwomen - but they do have brilliant support.

It didn't happen by accident though - and won't happen in the UK without a massive shift in attitudes.

Well a law which specifically criminalises it to harrass a bf mother, like they have in Scotland, would be a start.

And then a massive grant to the NCT/ ABM / LLL to take on paid workers as well as more volunteers working in partnership with the NHS so that every single maternity ward has at least one fully trained bf counsellor on it at all times. (Can't trust the NHS to do it, they already pretend they train mw's, don't they?)

Plus more bf clinics. One major prob I had with DD was that the nearest clinic was 2 buses away (I didn't have a car then) and with a toddler, I just couldn't face it. Plus it was only once a week. Whereas with DS, it was in walking distance. Oh the difference that made...

What exactly is different in the Scandanavian countries? Has anyone done a study? I think that would be really interesting.

Message withdrawn

Also (admittedly anecdotally, from talking to parents from those countries) in countries where there is proper support for establishing breastfeeding those who do end up formula feeding tend to feel less defensive and guilty about it.

In Sweden and Norway 98% of babies start out breastfed, and over 50% are breastfed to 6 months or more. In the UK the figures are something like 63% and 21%.

Is this difference because

1. Women in the UK are intrinsically more crap than those in Sweden or Norway, or

1. Women in the UK get less support around early childhood in general and breastfeeding in particular than those in Sweden or Norway?

I can't help feeling that option (2) is more likely.

I always wonder whether Dolls have an impact as they come with feeding bottles.
Only a small thing but could easily help to shape a young girls view of what it is to feed a baby.

Perhaps the Scandinavians have a less prudish attitude? A lot of Brits see someone nursing and think 'that woman has her nork out' rather than 'that woman is feeding her baby'.

QUOTE hunker, I eagerly await you starting to produce baby dolls that come with a big toy breast! UNQUOTE

LOL, I have just finished making a wooly breast stuffed with rice for using on the peer to peer breastfeeding training course I'm on and I was wondering if it would be creepy to make my DD one stuffed with something lighter, for her baby doll. !!!