how as a nation/society can we normalise bf

[robinredbreast]

these boards really make for sad reading,esp all the ill informed advice thats been posted in the last few days from hv gp etc

how are we going to improve things for us and future generations?

what are your ideas?

Talking to friends in Sweden and Finland, bf is just the norm, so people are surrounded with experience and knowledge on bf. For instance, when I was 28 weeks pg I was in Sweden for a week visiting customers, and the subject of maternity leave came up. They were horrified at our provision (there mum gets 1 year on good pay, dad gets 3 months), how much we pay for childcare (capped rate per family, state provision of high quality childcare), but what really got me was that their immediate thought was 'what about bfing ?'. I went back when DS was 6 months, and needed to express during the day. No one even batted an eyelid, and treated it as though it was the most normal thing in the world, and were chatting about how long they /their wives had bf for (and it was mostly 12 months or longer)
I think the long paternity leave helps in supporting bf, but it also seems that men do a lot more childcare and housework than here.
They get an awful lot of HCP support too.

It just has to seem more 'normal'. In the same way that wearing a seatbelt was made more normal and not the preserve of the over-cautious weirdo...through a concerted and relentless campaign . It would need proper government backing and funding, the appointment of PR/Advertising agencies to put together effective campaigns. This may seem shallow, but this sort of thing works. On the back of this, the provision of more and better trained staff would be necessary. There are lots of people who do breastfeed with other kids to feed/cleaning to do/sore nipples etc etc. If they assume that it is the normal thing to do (and are used to images of bf as the norm) then are far more likely to carry on. This will take a long time, as until women have grown up seeing friends/sisters/mothers doing it, then it will not seem like the norm. And men also have to see it as the norm and realise what breats are for at that time in their partners life. I was lucky. My mum fed me until 6 months, at a time when it was the norm, but she was a nurse and knew it was the best thing to do. In addition we were absolutely skint and it was a way of saving money . All my friends who had babies before me bf for at least 3 month, some up until a year, and my husband was incredibly supportive. Even my MIL told me that the first picture she had seen of my dd was 'so lovely, because she looked so happy getting a feed from you...well done!' Until more women get this positive feedback from those around them, we will struggle to get more people to put in the hard work that establishing bf can be.

I meant to say that my mum bf at a time when it def WASNT the norm

Human milk's included in Norway's annual reports on national food production. Has been since the '90s.

Fascinating reflection of how much it's valued in their society, imo. It's the only country to do so.

I have said this before but maybe we should start when our daughters are young. Why do we give them bottles with their dolls?

I also think the more women who feed in public the more normal it will become.

A stemming of the seemingly constant flow of critical comment pieces in the press about the agencies that promote breastfeeding would help.

See this from todays Guardian. Think someone else linked to a similar piece in the Times.

commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/anastasia_de_waal/2007/11/breast_isnt_always_best.html

And agree with hunker about some midwives not supporting bf. At the hospital I was at I was instructed to formula feed because I hadnt got the hang of bf. This was probably because there was no one there to help me establish bf as my mother wasnt allowed into the hospital when dd wanted to feed (ie at night). Luckily got it together in the end but not a great start.

paula - my daughter brings her dolls and teddies over to me for a breastfeed

My dd does have a bottle and sometimes she bottle feeds but sometimes she breatsfeeds as well. My MIL thinks its odd but I see nothing odd about it. She was breastfed till 18 months and she sees my SIL and some of my friends breastfeeding. I think its great that she sees women doing this. It shouldn't be hidden away in another room.

Kerala's link, the underscores caused problems, hope this works!
off to read it now

The anecdotal evidence is interesting, but has has anyone (would it be a sociologist?) done a proper study of all the influencing factors and history? Maybe comparing it to any parts of this country where bf rates are high? I think that would be really interesting, I'd like to do it myself!

at "monster sucking the life out of you"
lovely

Just a thought re dolls (as they almost all come with a bottle) - my DD2 (age 4) thinks that babies have boobies first and bottles when they are bigger. OK so babies don't actually need bottles at all, but as 99% come with them, it seemed the easiest way to rationalise it and give her the right message. As I am now expecting number 3 she will soon have the bf message reinforced!

...obviously that's 99% of dolls not babies - don't think I've got room in here for bottles as well!!

Haven't read whole thread - will later - but my immediate thought is that TV could help enormously. If every soap had people bf in it it would become much more acceptable. I'm not talking about a sensationalist storyline about it, just women in the cafe bf discreetly, on park benches, in the houses, a sort of drip drip into the nations subconscious that it is entirely normal. I would have happily been an 'extra' while bf dd...

Hv and gps are a harder nut to crack. Decades of misinformation and disinterest need changing...

Thanks stealth have not got the hang of that linking think.

Just such a depressing article! And the way there are so many in a similar vein as if they are bravely speaking out against the moral majority of breastfeeders when actually its the other way round and ff is the "normal" thing to do in our society.

I've written about this before so bear with me if it's familiar!

In Scandinavia, there never was a bottle feeding culture. Forget everything you have read about them using formula as much as we did/do and the government changing things so mothers went back to breastfeeding. It's just not true. There was never a time when less than about 95 per cent of babies started off breastfeeding - though there was a blip in the 70s when the length of breastfeeding was shortened, and something like (in Norway) 20 per cent of babies were on formula by a couple of months - shock horror. We'd love to have 80 per cent of babies bf at 2 months even now in the UK.

The formula milk manufacturers never promoted to Scandinavia much (v. small, v. scattered populations, diverse languages, far edge of Europe, quite poor esp Norway and Denmark after WW2) compared to say, UK, US, France. So there never was a culture shift to formula which then had to change. No one 'forgot' about breastfeeding the way they have done here.

I think baby dolls with bottles is a piddling influence, to be honest. They just reflect the prevailing culture.

[raises hand]

I am happy to be a bf extra in any tv programme.

Thanks tiktok.
So do you think formula advertising is the one big thing? If that changed, do you think the overall culture might slowly change as well?
Obviously we need more training for HCPs (not all I realise, my HV has been fantastic) and better support for women who want to bf, but alongside that the culture has to change.

Hey me too MrsB, fame at last, even if it would just be for my nork

kerala, I agree, every bf-bashing (well if they can use the 'N' word then I can say that) article I've read has an undercurrent of "aren't I daring and brave to say this".

i think bf in public may hold the key to normalising bf
also bf in the home not going into another room keeping bf behind closed doors
yes and so children can see bf

also the constant negative media,such as is bf in public ok or not,as if it is actually something to debate,when it should'nt even be an issue to debate.and refering to people as bf nazis is totally outrageous

longer paternity leave for dads would also be fantastic

and above all brits need to stop being so bloody prudeish!
it maddens me to think theres nudity everywhere,page 3 girls, magazines etc etc
yet a mother fedding her baby...what an outrage

what are the maternity leave/pay systems like in scandinavian countries? from talking to other mums the need to return to work seems to be one of the main reasons for stopping/not starting in the first place. related to this, but not so direct is the need pevple may feel to get babies into a "routine", "routine" and bf not being so terribly compatible, but often seen as a requirement for returning to work

i'm less certain about the dolls/bottles thing, if 80% of women want to bf [encouraging, surely] i think the messages given out by this may be more than counteracted by just how well people inform themselves these days. although i agree its the general populace that need the educating, not necessarily the parents.

have to say sometimes bf ds very often felt like being savaged by a wild animal, if not actually a monster.

sorry this is all a bit of a stream of consciousness, i am still half asleep and currently being used as a climbing frame

I'd like to see the message changed from bf is best/good for you to ff is inferior/not as good for you. bf being the default option. the same 'positive' approach to healthy eating hasn't worked either - not just that people don't eat more healthily but still don't know that eating unhealthily can cause cancer and early death, cos that's not what the ads say, is it. so we could have better publicity for the disadv/neg health benefits of ff rather than more publicity of the adv/health benefits of bf. to nick a phrase/paraphrase from the abm I think, we don't put ads on cigarettes saying 'fresh air is best for your lungs'

tiktoc do you know what the bf stats are in the uk ?

how do you think we can improve things for us and future generations,love to hear your views,as your are the bf information queen on mumsnet !

rrb at sucking upto tictok lol

along with hunker of course