Those of you who ff your baby -

[tasja]

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Breastfeeding reduces the amount the body is exposed to oestrogen, which is why it reduces cancer. So, to phrase it, as Tamum says, as 'formula feeding causes breast cancer' is incorrect, it doesn't matter if the default mother setting is breastfeeding. Pregnancy also postpones the oestrogen, so it's better to be pregnant, but childless women and women with children aren't really separate groups with their own statistics. Anything that reduces the exposure to oestrogen helps prevent breast cancer, including starting menstruating later in your teens. I also think the words used are important. It's not walking around with unused milk that's the problem, it's the body resuming its normal oestrogen function.

But anyway, the guilt of not breastfeeding has a lot less to do with how one has raised one's own risk of cancer than the effects on one's babies. In fact, from the context I suspect the request for cancer statistics that tiktok answered was quite likely to be an enquiry into the anti-cancer preventive effect of breastmilk on the person drinking it, not the person providing it.

Okay, I'm sorry, but I have been thinking about this. Once again on mumsnet, I rather feel that a thread that might have been useful for women to talk about their feelings with regard to breastfeeding quickly becomes 'by the way, you're all going to get cancer'.

"I feel uncomfortable when the implication is that we all have to pretend that feeding makes no difference, in order to protect those whose feelings are still raw....that's not right.
By tiktok"

But if the point of the thread is to allow people to discuss their feelings about formula feeding, and if every other thread on a board with, what, five dozen threads about breast and bottle feeding, stresses the importance of breast feeding, can't there just be one thread that doesn't talk about the negative effects of bottle feeding? Is that really pulling the wool over women's eyes and encouraging it? Isn't it just a place where you can feel like you're not alone for a minute? Isn't that the original poster's point?

Macneil -- I couldn't agree with you more. I was thinking about posting that exact same thought earlier today but didn't. Thanks for articulating it so well.

spot on, macneil.

It seems very unlikely to me that anyone who casts even the briefest of glances over the threads on this forum would leave with the impression that formula trumps breastmilk, on the basis of this one thread.

It's also not about everyone pretending that that formula feeding makes no difference - we all know it does. I could recite to you backwards all the various ways in which I'm risking the health of my baby by feeding her formula, so there's no need to pretend on my account. Just don't bang on about it all the blimmin' time.

Absolutely!!

Oh for goodness sake.
Cancer risk??
Formula milk is fine. The milk we feed our children is only one part of what makes them a healthy, happy individual. None of us are perfect. Far better a happy mum feeding the dreaded formula (which IMO now is sooo close to breastmilk anyway - even the poo is the same) than the possibility of a shouting,tense swearing mum who has painful tits and hates breastfeeding but does it anyway and passes the resentment on. So the kid grows up with deep-seated psychological issues but at least they won't get cancer

I was breastfed myself - have loads of dodgy digestion issues and colitis etc anyway, possibly because I was weaned too early and had rubbish diet growing up. I think my daughter (mixed 3 weeks then ff, now blw and eats anything very happily) is likely to grow up healthier than I did. The decision between breastmilk and formula milk is only one small part of raising children.

aye

macneil I disagree. tiktok provided the link to the cancer risk information because someone earlier in the thread asked about it.

If people start to question the benefits of bf on a thread like this, then someone knowledgeable and pro-bf will always come along and supply information which shows proof of the benefits. I think they are right to do so.

They are not "banging on about it", they are responding to specific posts asking or speculating about the benefits of bf.

Mummymagic, if you are fine with your choice then great.
However formula is not 'soo close to breastmilk.'Never has been and never will be.

What gives yuo the idea that it is anyway??

mummymagic the risk of breast cancer is to mums who don't breastfeed - not the child who is breastfed.

Saying 'FGS' doesn't change the facts - there is proof of an increased risk if you don't breastfeed

I agree with you that feeding is a small part of the whole parenting picture. however this thread is about feeding

But dobby, this thread is for women who formula fed, for whatever reason. There are always bf threads ... so why not this one?

fwiw, I breastfed for six weeks, which is the recommended minimum. It was shite!

So each to their own.

I agree with the bottle feeders that they should be able to start a thread about their experiences without us breastfeeders coming on and lecturing(advising/educating whatever..)

But formula is NOT like breastmilk.

I'm afraid that threads can't be reserved for certain people, whatever they are about. If you want a private discussion,MN is not the place to do it.

desi, I did formula feed. Due to failure to bf exclusively for as long as I would have liked.

Maybe the OP should have been phrased differently, I don't know.

dobby, it was I who made the charge of "banging on", and I was responding specifically to tiktok's point about how she didn't think everyone should pretend there's no difference between bf and ff. I wasn't talking about the cancer thing, although it must be said, that has now rather gloomily overshadowed all the other things people had been saying. Like macneil says, it's just a shame that what could have been a positive thread has turned into a stern warning about formula and breast cancer.

I certainly think, dobby,that some women find it easier than others.

I had all good intentions, but as my ds got a little bigger, he just wouldn't latch (having latched very well before). I tried everything, and I was totally exhausted with it.

Moondog: you are quite correct.

It's impossible not to feel miserable at the thought of having increased one's chance of getting breast cancer, particularly if you have a family history of the disease, as I have.

But it's worth thinking of things sensibly, rather than reacting emotionally to statistics. The statistics represent an INCREASED INCIDENCE of breast cancer among women who didn't breast feed compared with women who did. Some women who breast fed will get breast cancer. Most women who didn't breast feed won't. Breast cancer affects one in eight women in their lives. Those women aren't all women who didn't breast feed. There is a higher risk indicated with women who have menstruated for longer - that includes women who haven't taken the pill, women who haven't been pregnant, women who started menstruating earlier.

I'm certainly not saying anyone should be censored or no one should speak freely on threads. I'd like people to think about the effect they have when they bring cancer statistics to threads, whoever those people are, and to ask themselves if it is always necessary or appropriate. Just as people can tell me this attitude is pompous and inappropriate and even dangerous, I can say that I think it isn't always helpful to bring up every negative of bottle feeding.

I bf ds for 4wks
both my girls were FF from birth.

Perhaps the thread should have been started differently. Maybe I'll start a new one called "Formula Feeders racked with guilt - wanna talk?".

.. but I'm not racked with guilt. Perhaps some are, but I'm not.

There is an undercurrent of aggressive evangelism with some women where bf is concerned. For me, it was a total relief to give it up.

can the bf mafia leave us alone for one thread please!!!! I tried bf, was struggling with it when i fell very ill when ds was 2-3 weeks old and he had to be formula fed from then on. I was (and still am to a certain extent) absolutely devastated by this "failure" of mine, and i'm now convinced it played a huge part in my PND developing. Now that ds is 14 months and eating well, happy, hardly been ill at all, i feel a bit better but still have times when i'm terrified i've done him some lasting "damage" to him. I saw the title of this thread and thought yes! some comfort, support and sharing amongst us mums who have tried our best for our little uns, and guess what? thread trampled and overtaken by cancer stats. thanks for that guys, really helps, not. Blah!!

For me, too, it was a total relief giving up expressing, and one side-effect I've always felt too vacuous and guilty to mention here before was that I got my body back, which was wonderful. I thought I'd feel heavy and painful-breasted forever, and within a couple of weeks I lost 15 pounds without changing anything, my breasts smallened and I could wear my old pretty bras, I just started looking and feeling great again. I also got my mojo back with a kind of boing. At the time, if I'd been able to, I'd have carried on expressing for a year, and been miserable and heavy for a year.

I did feel nothing but guilt for the longest time, WHILE I was failing to breastfeed. I still bore people with it incessantly.

Okay, i've started another thread if anyone wants to take a look. Sorry about the extremely long intro, but just couldn't stop typing! It's really helped me though. Don't know how to do a link sorry. It's "Formula Feeders racked with guilt - wanna talk?"

Hi,

i formula fed dd1. IO suffered from:
c section- she couldnt latch on to my very flat nipples- fed 24 hours a day once eventually latched on- torn, fissured bleeding nipples- exquisite pain- PND-blocked ducts- 3 bouts of mastisis- baby again unable to latch on due to nipples falling off completely- both boobs packed with breast abscesses- admitted to A&E- stayed for 2 weeks in hosp- various needles pocked directly into abscesses as i screamed in pain & no anaesthetic was administered- gunk falling out of my breasts- finally boobs cut open whilst i was put to sleep- woke up to find 4 tubes sticking out of each boob to drain the remaining gunk- had to go to a nurse several times a week to have wound cleaned- wound became re-infected- had to have it treated bu 'burning it' with silver nitrate as the wound overgrew itself- more PND, SO depressed i couldnt look at myself naked in the mirror for fear of looking at my c section scar and my breast scars which are 4 life. couldnt even look at another woman breastfeeding without going somewhere quiet to sob myself silly. took a long long time to stop blaming myself.

dd2- got pregnant qukcly when dd1 was only 10 months old- had nightmares about breastfeeding that my newborn was digging fangs into my nipples-told my midwife i would not plan to breastfeed & this was noted- planned to bottlefeed from the word go-dd2 was born naturally albeit 3 weeks late- she latched on straight away, poor thing was crying and thats what she wanted- she had little short feeds every 2-3 hours , never for longer than 10 minutes- i kept on saying, this is the last feed coz i'm not going down that route again- 6 months later she is exclusively breastfed & i have never been more passionate about anything in my whole life, or proud

conclusion: i have respect, sympathy and understanding for both parties. It is very easy to breastfeed your baby and become judgemental about those who formula feed, and it is very easy to formula feed your baby and become defensive to those who breastfeed. but i've been on both sides and I can see where everyone is coming from & just think that whilst it would be great if everyone who wanted to could breastfeed, in the meanwhile there is nothing wrong with formula feeders gathering to discuss their own issues so why cant everyone just let it be?