Those of you who ff your baby -

[tasja]

sign in here

For information about formula feeding increasing the risk of breast cancer, is a scientific reference. There are many more - but this will do for starters. This is given in response to someone asking, not to make anyone feel criticised or bad.

For support after or during an unhappy breastfeeding experience, go to MOBI a great internet resource offering non-judgemental, shared experience.

Feelings about feeding issues do become less raw as time goes on - and I think a lot of mothers recognise that many things work out differently than we'd planned, not just feeding, and when you look at the bigger picture, the significance of any one aspect of parenting fades.

But I feel uncomfortable when the implication is that we all have to pretend that feeding makes no difference, in order to protect those whose feelings are still raw....that's not right.

Tiktok, I would say that breastfeeding is protective against breast cancer rather than formula feeding increases the risk if you'll forgive me splitting hairs.

That link didn't work but I did see one on another thread thanks.

That's interesting Tamum, putting it like that gives a different perspective.

Well, I know I'm being picky, but you're no worse off being a mother using formula than a woman who hasn't had children for example, so that's why I would phrase it like that. Less emotive too, but I completely agree it's worth pointing out, there are lots of studies saying the same thing.

i agree with tiktok too ( who wouldn't!)
breast is most certainly best. But we have to be careful not to ostricise some women who cannot breastfeed becuase of emotional and psychological reasons. It seems most women feel more comfortable in saying " i tried blah de blah problems etc"

I was probably perfectly able to breastfeed. never tried. I feel there was most certainly a different culture within my social class than there is today. There was certainly no support. The only mention was from the health visitor days after.

I don't feel like this is a competition. this thread is a kind of gay pride only with bottles - when i don't actually think that someone who is able to and is emotionally rady, physically rady and has the support networks - wouldn't do it - that seems daft.

I am very happy that this country now has created a social awareness throughout all sections of society. a normalisation of breastfeeding, something which, if my daighter is able to, i hope she embraces.

Fab post, custy.

I see it differently, tamum. Physiologically, bf is the default option, so if you're talking about health outcomes, it should be the risk of formula, not the benefit of bf.

Great post from custy.

It's only physiological for mothers. The stats are based on the whole population of females.

Tamum, breastfeeding is the physiological norm for our species. It's formula feeding which is the 'intervention' in this. To say 'breastfeeding protects' is to make it seem as if formula feeding is the physiological norm, and that breastfeeding is the intervention. You could say 'not breastfeeding increases the risk of breast cancer' if you like - it's just that 'not breastfeeding' equals formula feeding.

You can take other phenomena to illustrate this point:

• not smoking protects against lung cancer, or smoking risks lung cancer

• not drinking alcohol to excess protects against liver disease, or excessive drinking risks liver disease

• not having sex protects against pregnancy, or having sex risks pregnancy

• remaining slim protects against heart disease, or obesity risks heart disease

and so on. Note I am not saying formula feeding is the same as smoking etc. These examples are there to illustrate a logical, linguistic point, no more

Oops, I keep cross posting. Tamum, I see what you mean, but I think comparing women who've had children with women who haven't is tricky because there'll be loads of other health differences between those 2 groups. Better IMO to look simply at bf and ff women so you can control for all the other differences.

What a load of pony? I formula fed because I wanted to. Been on here for years, but I just didn't want to. And?

Tamum, the stats are different for women who have not had children. Not having children is a separate risk for breast cancer.

Sorry, don;t know why that MOBI link doesn't work.

Put MOBI into google, and it will take you to Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues - highly recommended.

Is that you UCM

Might be.... >

tasja, these threads always get into trouble sooner or later and if you say "i'm fedup with everyone always saying to bf and how good it is", then I think it's going to be sooner rather than later unfortunately.

You want to hear from other ff-ers which is fine, but the words you use make it look as if you're picking a fight (even though I'm sure you weren't).

I really hate the "us and them" mentality of ff vs bf. It doesn't have to be like this.

No, I know about childless women having a separate risk, it's a complex issue I agree. I know we're just talking semantics, but I would just make two points. Firstly, I think, as most scientists do, of something that increases your risk of cancer as being carcinogenic or oncogenic. Formula couldn't be considered to be either, particularly with respect to the women using it to feed their babies.

More importantly, most cancer causing factors (though not strictly all, I admit) have a dose response relationship, so the more you smoke the greater your chance of developing lung cancer and so on. The protective effect of breastfeeding does have a dose response relationship with breast cancer incidence- the more you bf, the greater the protection. The reverse can't possibly be true- whether you formula feed one baby or 10, the risk stays the same. That's why I would express it as a protective factor.

I was a breastfeeder, quite extended, and certainly don't want to row about it, I just think it's worth discussing

No, tamum, carcinogenic means 'capable of causing cancer' not increasing the risks of it (I have just checked). It's actually 'not breastfeeding' that increases the risk, and it's not that 'not breastfeeding' is carcinogenic, so I agree with you we cannot use the word 'carcinogenic' but I agree with you for different reasons

I do see what you mean about the dose response - you cannot manipulate the 'dose' of 'not breastfeeding'.

I am drawn to doing what I can to make breastfeeding normal, and that's what lies behind my choice of phrasing. But in this case, I accept it is not black and white, thanks

Hmm. That's interesting- I accept your definition (especially since you checked ). I guess my argument would be that we use stuff in the lab all the time that is labelled as being carcinogenic, but that obviously doesn't cause cancer in anyone who is exposed to it, so I would still argue that it "increases the risk" than than "causes". Basically, unless you took a bath in benzene every day genetic factors will always come into play. Sorry, I know I'm splitting hairs, and we're on the same side of the argument, it's just interesting

I'm caught between 'us' & 'them' as I bf 2 & ff 2. I would have bf all 4 if I'd been able & did feel guilty at having to ff dd2 & dd3 but comforted myself with the fact that I was doing the best I could for them at that time.

FWIW bf dd1 is asthmatic & while deffo not overweight has in the past put weight on a lot more easily that ff dd2 who is skinny as a rake & totally healthy. My mil ff her 3 who were all very healthy babies & her sister bf her 2 & says they always had colds etc.

I'm still bfing 8mo ds & have no plans to stop until he decides he's had enough despite comments from my mum saying I've done 'my bit' & don't want him to get too used to it I just love the closeness of it & the totally hassle-free routine (pop boob out, stick baby on compared to wash bottle, sterilise, boil kettle, count scoops - I'm just a lazy sod lol).

I suspect dd3 may grow up to be a bfer too - her dolly cried yesterday & I said she was maybe hungry so dd (2.4) whipped up her nighty & tried to latch dolly on. Dh was rather unimpressed but I thought it was hilarious - probably won't let her take dolly outside though

crookshanks my friends dd used to do that and she wasn't breastfed, but then again she used to show the kids at nursery how babies came out, by shoving it up her top, squatting, grunting and out pops baby!!

wish it was that easy!

Finding the cancer stuff interesting myself.

And my, doesn't the phraseology make a difference?