Page 7 | Can't seem to change the way I think about BF

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twiglett · 14/07/2004 15:11

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tiktok · 14/07/2004 15:12

aloha - great insights

Got me thinking of the way women are sometimes encouraged to fear this whole control thing - the idea (for example) that feeding even a newborn as often as he seems to want/need it is somehow 'spoiling' the baby and 'making them too dependent' is quite a scary one for some mothers. We still live in a world where mothers (to a lesser extent than fathers) may not have a great amount of control over their lives, their bodies, their choices. The notion of a very small person exerting quite a lot of control over all those aspects may take some handling.

Two year olds need and demand and truly have to have attention on their terms - they have hardly any true empathy. It's part of parenting to teach them how far the world doesn't actually spin on an axis of their making. That's a gradual thing (can take up to 20 years ) and it seems to be that breastfeeding can be a part of that, in a relationship where breastfeeding continues.

So the toddler learns that it's not always convenient to bf; that there may be some places where it's more difficult than others; that you don't do it at granny's; that sometimes mummy is busy doing other things or attending to other children.

Other parents who don't 'do' toddler bf will almost certainly have other areas where this learning takes place - as of course the toddler bf mum will.

aloha · 14/07/2004 15:22

Yes, I do sometimes use a high chair in a restaurant. My son certainly doesn't object. He prefers to be at decent height, whith is food easily visible and within reach than on a chair, barely able to see over the table! BTW the friend who was so freaked by my son in a high chair was a long term breastfeeder! Make of that what you will.

florenceuk · 14/07/2004 15:25

Interesting debate. I bfed my DS up until he was 2 (and a bit...) but only in the morning - I'd given up the night feed some time back. DH would have preferred it had I given up quite a bit earlier but DS was VERY attached to the breast. I was careful not to feed in public after about 18 mths though. DS has recently been very interested in photos of him BF as baby, and with all this talk of baby coming has attempted to feed a few times - he definitely remembers and would like to do it again - I just try to put him off and tell him he drank all the milk up and there won't be any more till the baby comes. So I'm not sure if it was such a good choice feeding for so long as it might be a source of conflict when DD-to-be pops out. Then again, the other day he wanted to be rocked and have Hush-a-bye baby sang to him - which is probably a bit more acceptable publicly than BF...

Eulalia · 14/07/2004 15:46

prettycandles - why do you feel guilty about still breastfeeding??? And why not enjoy it - seems as if this is saying it is wrong to enjoy breastfeeding.

tamum · 14/07/2004 15:49

Aloha, I'm not saying this to be judgemental, and I'm sure you've thought of it anyway, but the way we got round the height problem was just to have a booster seat on a normal chair from about 18 months. That way they're the right height but are using the same table as everyone else. There's no way I could have lifted either of mine into a high chair past 2 anyway even if they had been willing!

bloss · 14/07/2004 15:54

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kalex · 14/07/2004 15:56

Hold on, and a bit off topic, why would anybody be bothered by a 2.5 year old sitting in a high chair. My DS has always sat in his, and no not when we are out, but he like and I hadn't even thought it was aproblem, He can see his food better, and (from a totally selfsih point of view) I can make sure he's clean before I lift him down.

DS is three in Nov

daisy1999 · 14/07/2004 16:07

Certain things are appropriate at some ages and not at others. Bf in my opinion is one of those things. I think we have to accept that we will never agree on the age at which it becomes inappropriate. For me that age is around 12 months but if someone I knew was continuing after that then so be it, it's none of my business.

aloha · 14/07/2004 17:26

Gosh no, Bloss, I absolutely wasn't aiming my comments at anyone at all in particular, least of all you. It was more of a general comment about the pressures I think most of us experience to get them out of nappies, out of a cot, out of their high chair,off the breast, whatever.
My son can sit at the table in his high chair BTW - the tray slots just perfectly over the table. And he calls it his 'special' chair anyway.
BTW he got a new bed yesterday and after a tiny bit of initial reluctance slept beautifully in it. It's a child's bed, old pine with sleigh bed raised sides, but I still felt ridiculously tearful seeing my baby sleeping in a bed, not a cot

Original poster

twiglett · 14/07/2004 17:45

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aloha · 14/07/2004 17:49

I'm not sure I agree with that Twiglet, though I think it might be linked to lots of other things, including your child's personality, how much you enjoy your child's babyhood and more complex psychological things, such as how much you (not you, obviously!) fear vulnerability and weakness, which characterise babyhood.

Original poster

twiglett · 14/07/2004 17:56

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prettycandles · 14/07/2004 18:01

We seem to have a strange 'pressurised' attitude that if a baby/toddler/child can do something, then they must do it - prop them to help them learn to sit, a beaker at 6m and get rid of the bottle asap, potty-train them the instant they show any readiness, get them out of the cot and into a bed asap, and so on. Why? What does it matter? Ds has been out of his highchair for a bit over a year (he's 3y9m), but if he wants to use a chighchair at a rrestaurant I let him. If he wants to taste 'Mummy milk' I will let him do that too. Why are we in such a rush to make our children grow up?

aloha · 14/07/2004 18:09

Sorry that was meant to be Twiglett - not Twiglet. Do people tend to breastfeed second children longer?

prettycandles · 14/07/2004 18:28

I certainly am. But partly it's simply because I can. I struggled to feed ds - TBH I feel that I failed - and was determined to make a better go of it this time. Every time I realise that I successfully fed dd, and that I have no problems continuing feeding her, I feel such a good feeling - success, achievement, good mothering, vindication. Maybe that's one reason why I am continuing feeding dd at such an advanced age .

The one thing that would make me stop now, as opposed to letting her tail off at her own speed, would be falling pregnant.

bran · 14/07/2004 19:04

Can I ask another, less stupid, question? The first few feeds for a newborn are a different formulation to normal breast milk (colostrum??), so if a mother is still breast-feeding a child when the next is born, does the second child still get colostrum, or does he/she only get normal breastmilk?

mummytosteven · 14/07/2004 19:05

bran - I'ld always wondered that too!

Original poster

twiglett · 14/07/2004 19:51

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Eulalia · 14/07/2004 20:13

bran - yes the 2nd baby gets colostrum. The colostrum is time dependent, not a limited amount that will run out. First child unlikely to be around if you are in hospital for a day or so, so 2nd child should get plenty. Also by the time 2nd child comes along first child is probably only on 1 or two b/feeds a day so is hardly likely to be taking milk away from the newborn. Also if newborn is struggling with b/feeding a toddler can help to keep up supply.

more later got to make tea....

bran · 14/07/2004 20:28

Thanks Eulalia. I was never even curious about bf before I read this thread, I suppose I just didn't really think there was much to it.

tiktok · 14/07/2004 20:59

Prolactin levels are back to pre-pregnancy levels - almost - by six months, and there is a huge drop after just the first week. But there is a very slight elevation all the way through for as long as you feed. Don't know if it wou;d be enough to affect mood....I suspect not.

Feelings about bf are much more likely to be determined psychologically and socially and emotionally, rather than hormonally....in my view, but I am not a biochemist

prettycandles · 14/07/2004 21:11

I don't mean that I feel guilty about bf, more that I feel guilty about not letting-go and allowing dd to take the next step at the time of her choice.

prettycandles · 14/07/2004 21:13

Thanks Tiktok, that certainly fits with the timing of my bf-induced 'narcolepsy'.

BTW, isn't feeling irrationally guilty one of the qualifications for motherhood?

Jollymum · 14/07/2004 21:14

Just quickly read through messages and don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of things. Each to his own but I admit that toddlers feeding makes me feel that the mums don't want to let go of their "babies" and certainly feeding older children ( correct me if I am wrong) is usually for the mum not the child. It makes me feel really yukky and like someone said a bit abusive. Don't take offense if you do, this is my opinion and what do I know??!! How about working mums with toddlers, do they have a choice? I can't believe any boss would let someone have time off to breastfeed a toddler so they would have to have expressed milk. That's daft, because unless you are an absolute saint, eat properly, don't drink booze, then why not just go the "organic" way with milk, food etc?! If you puit your babies/children into nursery/childcare, how can you (hand on heart) know that they are having healthy food anyway? Not relevant really, but friend just toild me about paying lots and lots for a nursery that claimed all home cooked, organic food and fouind out that the owner was shoping at chip shops, and low cost stuff. IMO it doesn't really matter what you do or don't do as long as you have your "babies". My friend had a cake sale today to raise money for a baby unit where she lost her little daughter, so think on, it doesn't really matter as long as everyone is here and OK.