Can't seem to change the way I think about BF

[twiglett]

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Twiglett - you write as a question or state that breastfeeding after one year is just morning and evening feeds - but I have to say that breastfeeding can still continue on demand after one year. I still feed my dd on demand some longer feeds some shorter. She also eats very well at meals and likes a wide variety of foods.

Eulalia I did start to feel "grossed out" when bfmy dd at 11 months. But only sometimes, sometimes I loved it, and when she decided to stop I was really quite upset. And it wasn't anything to do with public perceptions either - I was down to only 2 bf's a day by that point. Thre were just some nights when I would look at her rather large head next to my extremeley large breast and jst feel really uncomfortable. I'm afraid I can't argue coherently about why - it was purely a gut reaction.
And I do feel a bit wierd when I see othre people bf older toddlers. I would never criticise, but it just strikes meas wrong - agian and indefensible position I know. At the same time, as a rather militant breastfeeder myself, albeit of a 2 month old (my latest was on a packed commuter train) I feel a sense of solidarity and proudness of any woman who does feed in public as they are helping to break down outdated views - I just can't help having them myslef as well.

Just a point about mummytoseven's guidance on alcohol - you're very strict, m27!!

Other threads on here would reassure and better inform bran about this issue

Bran - do look them up!

Mmmm ... interesting point re. breastfeeding on demand or not over the age of one.
DS was bottle fed and by the time he was one he had a bottle in the morning and at bedtime. Any other time of the day if he was thirsty he got water or juice.
So potentially I could breastfeed DD for as long as I want even if I didn't want to b/f in public because by the age of one if she has two feeds a day she can have the rest of her drinks like DS did? Ah ha! That might make a difference for me as it is the public breastfeeding of a toddler that I don't think I could do ... don't ask me why ... I am a shy person in that way I guess.

PS Bran ... I have had a glass of wine every night from the night DD was born ... sometimes even two. I was offered wine with dinner at the birthing unit I stayed in for 3 nights .
And this in a country where they say absolutely, categorically NO to ANY alcohol AT ALL during pregancy ... in NZ they say that even one unit of wine during pregancy can cause FAS ...

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I have also been quite convinced by Tiktok and Eulalia's arguments for extented bf. have been thinking about this thread a lot.

Mummytosteven, I think for some of us the prolactin knackers us rather than pleasantly tranquilises. I get more of a buzz from expressing and handing over a bottle and skipping out of the room myself than by the act of bf.

But prolactin does work for some people; once I'd got over the mightmarish early weeks (shredded nipples, blocked ducts, mastitis, endless feeds, general agony and depression), I did actually enjoy b/f and missed it when we stopped. Loved that closeness and that no-one else could do what I was doing for him.

3 months into bf dd3 I could almost half start to enjoy it, after loathing it with dd1 and tolerating it with dd2. I think I like it better this time though cos dd3 is a quick feeder and never comfort sucks. Am clearly not a natural at this...

and I am very touchy feely and uninhibited in other areas of life, so it's not just uptight Britishness for me.

bran - obviously I must have read some very conservative guidance on drinking and bfing - apologies - didn't mean to give misleading advice

Just on a point of order tiktok, I believe she is mummy to sTeven rather than mummy to seven!

Whoops sorry mummytosteven, didn't see you there!

I don't have a problem with extended bf (though wouldn't want to myself cos I don't enjoy it much) but I have seen toddlers use it as a way (in my opinion) of controlling their mothers.
I know two 2 year olds who use it basically as a way of stopping their mothers interacting with people by constantly demanding (and getting) a feed at any moment the mother's attention lapses from them. my childminder's little boy did it whenever she talked to us, and my sister's toddler does it whenever my sister goes near my new baby. it's the way the small child seems to exert control in public over the mother's body which I am uncomfortable with.

scummymummy/bloss - you both mention "baby", "babyish" etc several times. For long term b/feeders (I hope I speak for everyone) it is not a case of "my son still breastfeeds THEREFORE he is a baby" We know all too well that our children have moved out of the 'baby stage'. Being breastfed doesn't make your child more babyish or your perception of them still remaining as a baby, it is not some static viewpoint. This is just remaining within the world view that it is only babies can breastfeed and therefore if they aren't babies then it is wrong.

Paradigm shift.

We know they aren't babies and aren't staying in some neverneverland of babyhood. We move on, along with our children's development. We just accept that they can still breastfeed when they are walking, talking and all the other things and yes maintain that level of intimacy.

Yes it is largely something that is done at home, I'd not b/feed a toddler in public because it does become something private. Same way you'd not plonk your two year old onto a potty in public. As I said before all the imtimate body things with children lasts a long time, well past babyhood. A 4 year old still may need help going to the loo for example.

I can understand that you don't want to share your body with someone else after a time, that obviously happens to everyone, it is just that we do it a bit later than some. When you look back and it takes a whole 18 years or so to make a fully mature, responsible person it hardly matters that you continued breastfeeding your baby/toddler/or whatever they are called till they were 2, 3 or 4.

Fennel - ALL 2 year olds whether breastfed or not will demand their mothers attention!

What about hitting? Lots of 2 year old hit to get attention, or pull or whine, we just see this as normal and deal with the situation. A 2 year old has very little respect for others, particularly the mother. This is a behaviour management issue and not much to do with breastfeeding. A 2 year old isn't doing this BECAUSE he is breasfed, he's doing it because he wants attention...and he's found a way of getting it. I don't give into my dd's demands, sometimes they are for b/feeding, sometimes for food, whatever....this mum you mention just needs to exercise a bit of control.

eulalia

yes I agree. other friends bf toddlers without it becoming a public struggle for attention. but maybe for me that's why it's so different bf a toddler than a baby as it's not a control issue when a baby needs food or comfort.

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i am also not a control freak (honest ) in fact am quite attachment-parenting-ish (co-sleeping, no routines, bf on demand for babies etc).

but do feel my body is basically my own property and even my children should learn they can't appropriate it on demand in public. nor can DP or anyone else!

Sorry, mummytosteven.....I should get my eyes tested LOL

The only effect prolactin ever seemed to have on me was to send me to sleep! I think the amount of prolactin produced while the baby is actually on the boob goes down significantly after the first few months..but I'm not sure...Tiktok? Anyway, I found it easier to stay awake during feeds after the first few months with both of mine. I never got an enorphin-type 'rush' from feeding, which is what I imagined a prolactin 'high' would feel like.

twiglett - if your friend had given her 18 month old a breastfeed at 3 am would that have been worse? or the same?

I don't let my dd control me because she is still breastfeeding. Yes she has access to my body but it is on my terms. I hope it doesn't seem as if I am wishy washy in any way because of this. It is not her doing something and me giving in. We both do it together. Obviously I push her away if I've had enough. All 2 year old get too much at times! dd also tends to climb all over me and jump on me which is annoying and I have to push her off with that too.

2 year olds are gaining independence but still need lots of attention and cuddles. I'd rather give my dd a breastfeed though if she was whiny/tired/needing comfort that a biscuit or sweetie or a dummy, blankie, toy etc or stick her in front of a video. The thing about breastfeeding is that it's not bad for your child - doesn't rot or bend their teeth and it is human centred rather than object centred. Obviously comforters are useful at times but I do feel that some mothers (not suggesting anyone here!) can overuse these comforters.

Anyway I can just, only just!... fit dd onto my lap while I sit at the computer, very handy. Multi-tasking - comfort dd and look at mumsnet at the same time.

Hmmm...you shouldn't breastfeed a two year old because they might start demanding it as a way of demanding attention...but isn't that the same argument as you shouldn't talk to a two year old because they might demand you talk to them, or cuddle a two year old, because they might demand that. I've seen plenty of two year olds 'demanding' that their mothers cuddle them or pick them up because their mother is paying attention to another child/baby. The logical answer is either to pay less attention to the other baby if it distresses your child (much as your husband should stop paying so much attention to that 22 year old blonde at a party) or to ignore the child's demands or explain you will see to them in a few minutes?
I gave up breastfeeding completely at just over a year because a/I wanted to wear dresses again b/I had tailed off so I felt ds wouldn't be distressed (and he wasn't) and c/I know that society is extremely disapproving of people who breastfeed after a year and didn't want to be criticised or disapproved of when doing something so intimate and exposing. While I felt perfectly OK with my decision, it is hard to be brave enough to follow the World Health Organisation guidelines, and the knowledge that people think it is disgusting is a very strong motivator to give up
As for demanding my body...well, my son 'demands' cuddles and hugs and to sit on my lap quite often, but I think that's normal and I like it. Is he trying to 'control' me? Is my husband trying to 'control' me when he comes home from work and gives me a hug and kiss? It seems to me that sometimes we use very harsh and judgemental words (demand, control), for the instinctive things that very small children do in the interests of getting your love, which they need as much as food.
The other things that surprises me is how much emphasis and importance some people place on moving their children quickly out of babyhood. A friend of mine was recently very critical when she saw that my son (3 in Sept) still eats in his high chair. She was clearly very uncomfortable with this, despite the fact that he likes it, fits into it very easily, enjoys being higher up and having his tray right in front of him at the right, comfortable height, and can't fall off it (unlike a chair - ouch!). I think when it was the norm to dress children of both sexes in baby dresses and bonnets up to the age of twoish, perhaps that urgent desire to keep them moving on wasn't there so much. I don't know.

didn't mean to be harsh or particularly judgemental. but this thread got me thinking about what it was that made me personally uncomfortable with some of the toddler bf I observe and not with other toddlers I know who still bf.

incidentally my sister who bfs her toddler has also on occasion bf my young baby when looking after her. I don't mind that though wouldn't want to reciprocate.

ok I had to add this anecdote in. Just been talking to dsis the very keen bfeeder. she worked in a remote area of Papua New Guinea for 2 years where toddlers are routinely bf, and people do feed each other's babies. she has also seen a woman there bf a piglet! it's still done in mountain villages.