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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Can't seem to change the way I think about BF

319 replies

twiglett · 12/07/2004 15:38

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OP posts:
aloha · 14/07/2004 21:50

Jollymum, do you think the World Health Authority - which states that breastfeeding confers health benefits on children up to age two (at least) - is wrong? They certainly aren't making that recommendation for the mother's benefit. I don't really understand your post. You seem to imply that if you don't have a perfect life there is no point in breastfeeding, which doesn't make sense to me. Also as long as your children are alive it doesn't matter what you feed them. That doesn't really make any sense either.
I wasn't a long-term breastfeeder by most people's standards, and my son had formula before he left hospital, but let's face it, it would take a brave woman to feed her child according to the very best health advice when people feel free to call is 'yukky' and 'gross'. I am sure that hurts.

hercules · 14/07/2004 22:04

Jollymum- my ds was in full time nursery from 3 years old. Why on earth would I want to express for him or need to ask my boss for time off. My dd is 9 months and I express for her when I get home from work.

As for what my ds ate in nursery - I checked the menus before taking him there, saw what he ate and asked him. I really dont think he was fed anything crap in secret.

I didnt feed ds because I thought he was a baby - he was a toddler then a preschooler!

How on earth can breastfeeding a child be abusive?!?

emkana · 14/07/2004 22:30

Thank you for your post, aloha - as always so eloquent and well-considered - I just love reading your stuff
Jollymum, how can you call something that I (and many others) regard to be natural and right "yukky" and "abusive" (!!!) and then expect me not to feel offended????
Is there anything worse than implying that someone abuses their child?
I am hurt, sorry.

tiktok · 14/07/2004 23:54

Please take it back, Jollymum....it's no good saying 'each to his own' and then using the words 'a bit abusive' .

You can't help feeling repelled - as has been said on this thread before, the things we feel are 'yukky' we may have no control over (hence dislike of prawns, buttons, whatever ) though of course we can control what we say to others and how we judge them.

But to mention abuse in the context of extended breastfeeding is massively, hurtfully offensive, and you own people an apology....you said you don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of things? Well, in that case, please think about what the effects of what you said.

tiktok · 14/07/2004 23:55

And then you ask people not to take offence!

Well.....

bloss · 15/07/2004 00:22

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Original poster
twiglett · 15/07/2004 00:39

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emkana · 15/07/2004 01:11

But the WHO surely wouldn't recommend b/feeding for 2 years plus, either here or in the developing countries, if it was in the slightest way "abusive".

pesme · 15/07/2004 01:34

I think it is interesting that no one is questioning why they think it is 'Yucky'. Bfing is a natural way to feed a child. Fair enough don't do it if you don't want to but finding other people offensive is questionable. Maybe it is worth examining your own attitudes. It is also insulting imposing your psychobabble 'keeping them as babies' stuff on women. Live & let live.

eddm · 15/07/2004 01:59

Bloss, there does seem to be a myth that's grown up around WHO advice 'it only applies to developing countries'. Even HVs spout it when they are promoting early weaning... sigh... IT'S NOT TRUE. WHO advice is based on rigorous analysis of the available evidence. No doubt it will change over time as more evidence becomes available but it is the best advice we have at the moment for every baby, wherever they live.

eddm · 15/07/2004 02:03

and if you'd ever spent a day with environmental health officers, you'd know that we all need strong immune systems.

Eulalia · 15/07/2004 09:21

Ah - OK tiktok - in that case assuming we all have the same social influences then it must just be a psychological/emotional thing but still find it strange that there are huge differences. Or are the people who really hate very much in the minority in your experience?

prettycandles - but she will take the next step! You can't force a baby to breastfeed any more than you can stop them from walking or talking. I know what you mean about guilt of course but there is no need at all in this respect

bloss · 15/07/2004 09:50

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bundle · 15/07/2004 10:43

endocrinologist mentioned to me recently that fish (!) secrete prolactin...dunno what they do with it though, they don't even have nipples

Original poster
Twiglett · 15/07/2004 10:48

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prettycandles · 15/07/2004 11:08

I looked down at my 'enormous' little one this morning as she was feeding, and realised that I can't actually remember what it felt like to bf a tiny baby. I remember that her head was smaller than my boob, and that she used to press her whole face into me, and I remember that she used to scratch and pinch me as she thrashed about throughout the feed (still does, but not as roughly). But I can't remember what it felt like...as far as I'm concerned dd has always been the way she is. Doesn't really make sense. I suppose that you just accept it as time passes. After all, when you're with your baby every day, you don't really see the changes in the way that someone who sees the baby only say once a month.

tiktok · 15/07/2004 11:22

Eulalia, I don't think we do have all the same social influences - quite the reverse. The stats bear this out - 90 plus per cent bf initiation in some areas of London, 9 per cent in some areas of Glasgow!

mummytosteven · 15/07/2004 11:24

tiktok - out of curiousity, what are the stats for bf initiation for Merseyside - just curious as I wsa told that most people don't even start, and most that start don't make it past the 1 or 2 week stage, which certainly seems lower than the national average

aelita · 15/07/2004 11:29

prettycandles, and here was me hoping for a little girl next time as I thought she might be less of a ruffian (nice turn of phrase!) than my DS and I might enjoy b/f without being pinched, bruised, slapped and punched! What a shame to discover girls can be so violent too,

prettycandles · 15/07/2004 11:46

Ah, now I, apparently, was a delicate little lady feeder, no mess, no fuss, the teeniest of lady-like burps...dd doesn't take after me in that respect!

Eulalia · 15/07/2004 11:56

bloss - you are right - it is a lot more important to adhere to longer b/feeding in 3rd world countries. However I'd argue that the differences in our country are not "very, very marginal". There are higher rates of severe stomach upsets, flu, ear infections and so on in our country in babies who are not b/fed. Not life threatening of course but can be very miserable for the child. Even short term b/fed babies get these because so few women b/feed for long there are no stats to compare long term with short term.

If I may bragg here. Neither of my two children have ever had an ear infection or severe stomach upset or anything more than just a cold. ds has just finished a year at nursery and never had a day off with illness and I was amazed at hte amount of bugs going round. He just sailed through them all. He also did a year of playgroup before that, again no day off. He was 2.5 when he vomited for the first time in his life. ds has had a high temp twice both times for 12 hours only and same with dd just the once. This isn't just luck, they have extremely robust immune systems and I put this down to long term breastfeeding. Can't prove it with a research paper of course but having seem the differences with my kids and their peers its enough for me to keep on breastfeeding.

Eulalia · 15/07/2004 12:23

twiglett - to go back to your friend feeding a nearly 3 year old. Surely it isn't wrong? Wrong for you, but not wrong in itself. At the end of the day it didn't hurt the child. I agree with aloha - we all seem to be in a terrible hurry to get our children to grow up.

Off topic perhaps but no coincidence perhaps that the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe.

jollymum - sorry but what kind of view do you have of a woman's body when you can use words like 'abuse' in the context of b/feeding? I get the impression that you've not really though about this... read the posts properly

mummytosteven · 15/07/2004 12:39

I would have felt that there is certainly a commercial interest in encouraging a cultural attitude of disdain towards extended bfing - after all breast milk is free, and formula isn't! I think it is very interesting, taking the WHO guidelines into consideration, looking at why extended bfing has come to be regarded as eccentric by many people, given its undeniable health benefits. Tiktok I wonder if you may be able to answer this- how far has the culture of it appearing acceptable to a number of people that only tiny babies should be bfed coincided with the widespread availability of formula and good hygiene in this country? When did extended bfing fall out of fashion and how far (if at all) was this connected with availability of more reliable forms of contraception? Also how was formula milk originally marketed?

Original poster
twiglett · 15/07/2004 13:08

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twiglett · 15/07/2004 13:08

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