Can't seem to change the way I think about BF

[twiglett]

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Meant to say it must have been very hard for you when your DS was hospitalised, not just for the feeding but in general.

I think you hit the nail on the head there about confidence - may have had something to do with my "issues".

About cow's milk: it's not just a "Western" akternative to breast milk. Primitive tribal societies in Africa, such as the nomadic ones in Uganda, use cows as their main source of nutrition: they drink the milk (and urine to prevent dehydration in drought times); eat the meat and drink the blood when it comes time to kill the animal. So what's "unnatural" about drinking cow's milk?

It's no more unnatural than eating a carrot.

Frankly, I think the 'natural versus 'unnatural' argument is silly...sorry! That's not what infant feeding is about, surely.

We do loads of things that are 'unnatural' because they are convenient for us....I don't think wearing synthetic clothing is particularly 'natural' but I do it, and it doesn't bother me a bit!

Obviously, breastmilk is nutritionally appropriate for our species in infancy. Cows milk is nutritionally appropriate for infant cows. That's why it's better. It doesn't stop being appropriate just because the baby is older, but to some people, in some societies, it stops being socially appropriate or even emotionally appropriate, at that point (which point, as we've seen, varies a lot!) . When people feel they no longer want to give this nutritionally appropriate food for whatever reason, they seek an alternative. I happen to think that long term bf is a lovely thing to do, and it certainly enhances the relationship between mother and child, when both are happy to continue. But not everyone feels the same, and that's fair enough.

Just as the long term breastfeeders shouldn't judge the shorter term breastfeeders, the shorter term breastfeeders shouldn't judge the longer term ones....but they can, surely, discuss the reasons why they feel grossed out, while accepting that it's all a bit random and arbitrary. I don't think this should be a reason for anyone to feel they have to defend their position.

Twinkie - where did I attack twiglett?
To quote you ... "I couldn;t care less what you did in terms of breastfeeding your child and I am sure neither could Twiglett but I feel strobngly that she has the right to say what she thinks about extended breastfeeding on here."

So I don't have the right to say what I think about extended breastfeeding? It is just twiglet who has the right? - is she just going to have a conversation with herself then?
She obviously wanted to discuss this issue because she started a thread on it! If she couldn't care what I or others thought about it then she'd not be here discussing it. Apologies if you do feel offended by anything Twiglett but I really can't see how??

OK twiglett and others just have a 'feeling' about this but there is usually some sort of rationale behind our feelings. I think it is very important to have this kind of discussion - I mean how are we going to learn anything?

Some people don't like breastfeeding - I don't think that they are unnatural - after all it can be very hard. I would be interested to know what aspect they didn't like about it, did it hurt etc but I appreciate that individuals may not want to discuss it but am genuinely interested as to why something can be a wonderful experience for some but awful for others. Surely asking this isn't going to cause offence?

motherinferior - that is interesting that you have both perspectives, hated it then loved it... I was much the same with my first. Had a difficult time with ds but struggled on and it got better and then was a doddle. dd was really easy from day 1.

Cam - yes plenty African people do use cows milk but not to feed young babies, ie before weaning age.

I haven't got a clue why I disliked B/F so much -I know that I never WANTED to do it, just that I SHOULD do it as it was better for baby.

I often felt a "freak" because I had friends who loved it and couldn't understand why I didn't - all I do know is it ruined my early months with my babies.

I don't give it a second thought now (other than reading this thread) since my youngest is coming up for 5. When DH has the snip last year, it was so much "oh I'll never have another baby", it was more a case of "yeeahhh, I'll never "have" to breastfeed another baby". (I think I posted that on the "what you'll NEVER have to do AGAIN" thread).

Ok attack may have been the wrong word but I think your reply tried to justify or pick apart waht she was feeling when she did not ask for that she was just stating something.

Obviously from the posts directly after mine I was not the only person to feel like this about your reply though!!

Been thinking about this thread today. Although ds self-weaned at just over 17 mths (asked for a cup one night - "no mummy" etc), the thought of b/f him now at 22 mths does seem strange. But I think that's because we've stopped feeding. If he'd never stopped I don't imagine it would seem odd.

I do wonder if he will have any memories of being b/f. He often tells me about things we did at Christmas time when he was 15 mths (Santa/ hanging stocking/ lights on teeeeees etc) so if he can remember that much I'm sure he must remember being b/f, but it's never mentioned. He just laughs when he sees me getting dressed and shouts "Boobs - funny" - no mention of milk - or maybe I do actually have funny boobs....

Do anybody's toddlers have memories of b/f?

I must say that I begin to find this a bit upsetting now. What would the 'anti-longtermers' on here think if I started a thread that I found people who cuddle their child after 12 months gross, icky, that it makes my skin crawl? Surely people wouldn't like that, try to find out my reasoning behind thinking that way, try to convince me otherwise? And that's what longterm feeding is for me - an essential, precious, tender, loving part of my relationship with my child.
I really wonder WHY twiglett felt the need to start this thread, I really do - I wish she had kept it to herself, really! But now that she has started it I really do believe very strongly that other people have very much the right to discuss and even question her points. Surely that's what Mumsnet is about???

motherinferior

this is the first time I hear someone admitting they do it for themselves as much as for the child/baby! You've been very honest!

I think it's very well Eulalia trying to find reasons behind one's feelings, but sometimes it's not easy/possible.

DD weaned herself off, so I ahve no idea how long I'd have continued, but somehow the sight of a child able to sit on you lap and demand a feed has nener appealed to me. Can't say really...I just don't feel comfortable with the idea.

It has something to do with regaining use of my own body, but not only, as twiglett said it's a feeling, there's no rationale behind it.

Once dd was in the bath with me, she was between 18-24 months, and she had been seeing lots of breastfeeding mothers lately and she leaned towards me and tried to suck one of my nipples, and I just recoiled in terror!!

I was happy to feed her as a baby, but now, I couldn't do it.

Maybe because most toddlers I've seen seem to be on comfort feeding rather than milk feeding, and I'd rather confort her in oher ways.

But that's me, as I said there's really no objective reasons behind it. You can dig as deep as you want, but it just doesn't feel right. And I wouldn't even try to convince anyone as I wouldn'ty know what to say!!!

emkana - I do think it's a good thing that Twiglett started this thread, because it's a fact that many women who breastfeed their babies are somehow revulsed by other women who continue feeding beyond some cut off point, which varies from person to person. I'm saddened by this too, because I've been on the receiving end of some un-supportive remarks now I'm still feeding my dd at age 2, something which I think is a wonderful and normal thing. But I think it's important to talk about these things, because the more it's talked about openly the more extended feeding might be seen as something normal and healthy, and not something to be ashamed of.

Don't know if we've changed any minds, having said all that!

Twiglett - I before I had DS I was planning to feed for a dutiful 3 months and then liberate myself (that's how I saw it then), and even when I was still solely bf-ing at 4 months, thought feeding beyond a year was downright weird. Then happily carried on until he was about 20 months (down to a feed at night), and it felt quite natural. But as soon as I stooped, I thought it looked a teeny bit odd when my friends fed their own raucous grown-up toddlers.
I think I was irrational at both ends of the process....but glad I did what felt right at the time! Just go with how you feel! Goodness, haven't you got enough to fret about?

emkana

one can juste xchange opinions without having to justify themselves.

Twiglett wasn't trying to convince anyone, just expressing her ideas, the problem is, like with dummies, that people ahve strong views about b/feeding and imemdiately feel attacked when someone doesn't share them.

No one got offended at the idea that someone finds prawns disgusting have they??
I actually happen to love prawns and seafood and I couldn't care less if others don't.

That last sentence was a JOKE and not in any way serious.

I am still laughing at Aloha's description of prawns - and the possibility of her snatching them out of people's hands.....

My dd's first word was 'boob', actually she said 'baa' and pointed to my breast.

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I think what's interesting is how many of us have found ourselves, imperceptively, slipping into long-term feeding.

Erk, twiggy, stop me in 5 years' time!

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Do you think that part of why it's easy to slip into long term bf (as opposed to making a conscious decision) is because your youngest child never looks as old as other children?

To me, DS2 still looks like my baby - DS1 grew up LOADS the minute he walked through the door after I had DS2. When I gave up feeding DS2 I was never feeding a 14 month old, I was feeding my baby. He still looks like my baby now he's 3 but I'm sure, should I have my Mythical Third Child (a DD in case you're interested, around 7lbs at birth ) he'll suddenly turn into a huge lumbering child. Even seeing other people's babies doesn't turn him into a big child the way bringing DS2 home did with DS1. I couldn't have tandem fed for this reason - DS1 was suddenly too grown up. He hadn't changed at all, it was just my perception.

Twinkie, sorry but can't twiglet speak for herself - if she found my posts offensive/intrustive or whatever she would say so.

Still totally confused as to how I could have offended her, I mean it was twiglett herself who said she was "grossed out" - surely it is ME who should be offended. I merely asked her why she felt it was 'wrong'. Isn't that what a normal conversation is about, someone says something and the other asks "why?" Otherwise like I say you'd not be having a conversation?!

What if I started a thread on how seeing babies wit bottles made my skin crawl and really grossed me out! I bet several people would feel offended so I wouldnt even though I'd be just expressing my opinion.

Oh just read your post twiglett - glad we got that cleared up

Can I just say that it is not black and white, that b/feeding for those who enjoy it doesn't consist of sitting in a warm blissful hormonal state all the time. There are good times and bad just like any part of parenting. I have just found it incredibly useful at times eg throughout toddler tantrums (shuts them up straight away) and illnesses (not that my two have really been ill).

Also I find it sad that women have to apologise for actually enjoying it and contrarily think that they are 'abnormal' because they don't. Why don't we just leave ourselves alone?

I'm sorry if my first post earlier today offended anyone - that really wasn't my intention. As you can see from my second post I have experience of quite how badly things can go wrong in try to establish bfing, so do realise the difficulties involved in bfing.

Can I wade in here with a completely stupid question? I've never bf'd, but as I understand it you shouldn't drink alcohol or eat certain foods (I could be wrong about the foods). Wouldn't the thought of a nicely-chilled, crisp Sauvignon Blanc put a lot of people off extended bfing?