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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Bottle Feeding

117 replies

riab · 06/11/2006 10:57

In support of parents who bottle feed their child.

Why do Parents bottle feed?
Every Parent should have a choice of how they wish to feed their baby, however there are some circumstances in which parents unfortunately do not have a choice.
Lets look at some of the reasons why you might be bottle-feeding;
The natural mother of the child is not present because;
you are adoptive parents
you are a single dad
you are the grandparents of the child
You are a gay couple
Obviously in any of these cases breastfeeding is not possible. There are however a few couples who have successfully managed to breastfeed adopted babies - this is usually possible if you are already nursing one child.

The natural mother of the child is ill;
HIV
Cancer
Any illness which depletes the immune system or involves weakness/loss of weight/appetite or prolonged hospital stays
Apart from HIV there is no risk to your baby from breastfeeding when you are ill, however lets look at the risks and benefits to all members of the family. It is important to ensure that you have enough rest and food at all times in your life but especially after having a new baby. If you are ill this becomes even more vital in order for you to have a full recovery. Struggling to breastfeed whilst being ill and possibly having to bring a baby back into hospital with you in order to do so may not be the best option for you and your family.

You find the idea emotionally or mentally difficult to cope with
Some women find the idea of breastfeeding a very difficult one. This can be because of prior sexual abuse, a bad pregnancy and labour or simply because for some women their breasts feel very personal and the idea of using them to feed is not pleasant one.
Counselling can help to overcome these feelings. HOWEVER, after the birth is NOT the time to begin this counselling process. You are tired and emotional and coping with a period of enormous change. This is never a good time to undergo deep therapy.
It will take time to deal with the issues in an appropriate setting. If you want to breastfeed but feel that issues like these may interfere with your ability to do so successfully and enjoyably then please seek professional help before you get pregnant if at all possible.

It is painful
This is one of the most common reasons women chose to transfer to formula after attempting to breastfeed. Issues may be helped by a fully trained breastfeeding counsellor, however if you have been given assistance and you are still suffering pain/cracked nipples/ mastitis then bottle feeding may offer you and your baby a more enjoyable and manageable way of feeding Ongoing pain is not good for the mother, it will make feeding times difficult and something to dread rather than something to enjoy. Any pain or tension in the carer can communicate itself to the baby, it is far better for your baby to feel warm and loved and safe.

You do not produce enough milk
According to health experts this is rare, but the feeling and worry that you aren't producing enough milk can be very upsetting and tiring. If you are concerned then try expressing. It is also very very important to feed at least 8 times a day in the first few days. Many new babies are very sleepy and it is tempting to let them go longer between feeds but this can led to your milk supply not building up as quickly as possible.
Tiredness, stress and tension (from pain or misery) can also contribute towards a difficult feeding session. If your baby is losing weight or not putting weight on please talk to your health visitor.

The natural mother of the baby needs to return to work
It is possible to breastfeed while at work if your job allows for it and you have understanding employers, but some jobs are not that flexible. The commonly quoted example is that you can 'easily pop into the toilets or a quiet room at lunchtime and express/feed your baby' If the mother has an office job this may be easy but not every women works as an administrative assistant in a nice office.
Here are some examples of jobs in which you may find it difficult to breastfeed;
Jobs which require travel / overnight stays
High pressured jobs in which lunch is eaten at the desk or in meetings
Outdoor jobs where there are no private/sterile storage facilities
Physical or site based jobs
Any job where taking time out to deal with personal matters are frowned upon (whether expressing breast milk or sorting out your sick cat)
Aside from the constraints of the job itself some women feel that they want to give 100% to their job and needing special arrangements or taking time out to feed a baby is not how they want to conduct their working life.

Any of these might be reasons to formula feed, whatever your reasons are remember that Bottle feeding is a safe alternative for parents who are not able to or choose not to breastfeed.

GOOD LUCK

OP posts:
tiktok · 15/11/2006 08:54

Awwww....guys, I'm

It's great to know some of you have been helped.

I did rather let my serious guard down with the breastfeeding tents, I know

Still waiting to be aplogised to by pollypeach for telling me I called non-immunisers and formula feeders irresponsible, but I won't hold my breath

Maybe she has posted on Immunisation, and maybe she has been 'disappeared'

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 09:46

oh tiktok give me a break. between the hours of 10.34pm (when you asked for my apology) and now i ih ave been looking after a poorly baby and nowhere near this computer.
of course i apologise if i offended you - mind you, and again forgive me if i'm wrong, i get the impression that you are more robust mentally than those of us who are currently swamped by nappies.
i'm not going to get drawn into a debate about what i said other than to say this:-
there does seem to me to be an intractable problem with discussions about FF. it is this - those who are pro-BF on health grounds as opposed to emotional ones (the majority presumably) support it because it does not cause the harm that FF apparantly does. it must be extremely difficult for those people in all good conscience to support the choice to FF. hence, on the thread that i blundered into, it seemed to me that some FFers who had joined hoping for support (affirmation even) were getting upset by no doubt well meaning suggestions from BFers. the suggestion to start an FF only thread was made and criticised. that is what prompted me to add my bit saying that there were perhaps grounds for a seperate thread, despite this being an open forum. i used your comparison with immunisation to illustrate the point i was making.

clearly i was delighted to read your post this morning and i particularly thank you for the smiley faces. what a hoot after a sleepless night!

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 12:18

hey polly, hope you are feeling a bit more rested now and that the baby is getting better. it's shit when they are ill, isn't it? good speaking to you earlier on your other thread, i hope that's cleared everything up for you...

tiktok · 15/11/2006 12:54

polly, you are right to pick me up on my impatience, sorry....I really didn't think about the time window, which was not very wide.

tiktok · 15/11/2006 13:08

The 'problem' with some threads on infant feeding is not really to do with 'pro-bf' people feeling unable to accept the choice to ff. It's that there is a huge amount of misinformation - riab's list of reasons why some babies really can't be breastfed is an example.

Then, when someone (mildly, usually) says, as in this case, 'well, triplets can be breastfed' it's seen as sabotage.

'Pro-bf' people are often quite well informed - they have to be, sometimes, to counter the myths that are out there! Why would they not contribute, on a talk board, by talking about this?

In a further example, I answered a Q from riab about how to share information, and polly read it as me saying non-immunising mothers were irresponsible and so were ff mothers!

As if!

This area is so sensitive, it becomes very difficult to have a conversation

SneakyMouse · 15/11/2006 13:13

Agree, Tiktok (I make a habit of this!).

There are some astounding myths on the other thread (largely Milupa-related) and I just had to post to counter them. I wasn't rude, I wasn't derogatory about ffeeders (I don't think I ever am), I just felt I had to post.

What I find very hard is somebody saying "Oh, that happened to me, and I had to ffeed because there's NO way you can bfeed after that" kind of thing (which happens a lot) - and it becomes very hard to say to the OP "actually, you can still bfeed if you want to - try this, this and/or this" without upsetting the person who had been told by some ill-informed idiot midwife or HV that under no circumstances can they bfeed.

xmasstocking · 15/11/2006 13:19

Just want to say as a ff from the other thread that I certainly appreciate your opinions/knowledge. Although I ff I am not an expert on it and am quite happy to listen to anyone who has more experience/knowledge on the subject - just cos we ff, doesn't make us the experts anymore than your average bfer would be an expert on all issues surrounding bfing

I have since learnt information which I wish I had been told by the MW when I chose to stop bf after 2 days - I may well have perservered a bit longer - but ho hum, that is life and there is not a lot I can do about it 4 months down the line so any advice is welcomed from me just in case another lo comes along at some point......

harpsichordandcarrots · 15/11/2006 13:28

gosh, yes tiktok that's right.
I don't think I would describe myself as "pro-bf" because it really isn't a pro/anti for/against adversarial matter. for me, it is about women and babies and their health and well being. and for people who work in or who have an abiding interest in this subject, the overriding feeling is fighting against a tide of misinformation/generalisations about feeding (e.g. It is painful) which, if they were to be believed, might lead women to give up bf or not start and lead to great unhappiness on her part. (read mumsnet for details....)
ime the prevailing culture is so strongly biassed in favour of bottle feeding/ formula feeding as the norm.

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 14:14

first of all tiktok, i'm extremely sorry that things degenerated into such a scrap between us. i genuinely thought this morning that you were threatening me with the mumsnet secret police. i've since been disabused of that and told what disappeared really means!
i think i used the phrase "pro-BF" - i wasn't doing so with any agenda. perhaps its more accurate to say People Who BF. (i was trying to get the acronym POB (Posh's new haircut?) buts thats as close as i can get...)
i completely agree that BFers are well informed. given that BFing is not the norm in the UK, to BF is a conscious, informed, educated decision. FFers are, by default, made up of informed and educated people but also all of those who aren't and everyone else in between as well. and i declare myself as an FFer before anyone thinks i'm being rude.
i can only offer my own perspective on why discussions about feeding get so heated. its this - people who are already FFing are doing so for a variety of reasons, some willingly, some unhappily, some guiltily etc. to be told, no matter how kindly, that the reasons they cite to themselves or to the world at large for the fact that they are FFing are, in fact, largely fallacious is at best annoying and at worst deeply upsetting.
if you believe that BF is best - and in fact i do for a number of reasons, not least of all the fact that you don't have to spend so much on flaming formula - then you will possibly want to encourage someone to BF. inevitably, advice given on either method of feeding is going to be read on an open forum such as mumsnet not only by people who haven't started feeding or who are considering, for whatever reason, moving from BF to FF, but also by people who are already committed to to FF. they will react according to how happy/unhappy/guilty/not guilty etc they are about the fact that they are FFing.
i don't think there is any way round that.

tiktok · 15/11/2006 14:44

PPM - I was pointing out with my 'disappeared' quip that postings on immunisation discussion boards (not just on mumsnet) are famous for being far, far more heated than feeding discussions ever are, and that what you said (about irresponsible mothers not immunising) was likely to be received as very insulting and provocative and was likely to get you banned (no, not murdered!). (For the record, I am in favour of immunisation!). I was actually making a joke about the relative calm of feeding threads

I agree with your analysis of why feeding threads are as they are, but cannot agree with your implication that people with good info, offered sensitively and kindly, should just be quiet. After all, if a formula feeding mother makes a generalisation that (for example) all mothers who have to be treated in hospital can't breastfeed (on riab's list of reasons for not breastfeeding) , why on earth should someone not pop up and say it's not correct.....it might well make someone who stopped bf because they went into hospital feel sad about it, but it might help her know better next time, and it might offer another option to someone who was being told the same myth.

The way round that is not for people to withhold the info....surely.

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 15:15

oh that's not what i'd thought you'd meant tiktok...

thing is, pollypeachum, riab's original post read to me like it had been cut and pasted from somewhere official. i know it hadn't, but it did look to me as if it might have been proper medical advice rather than just the opinion of an unqualified MN poster. so i actually think it was essential that someone came along and challenged her OP in the strongest terms.

i do agree that ffers can feel a bit battered especially at the beginning, but as long as people aren't putting up inflammatory title posts (there have been some...) and are seeking to address the issues then we have to stomach it, frankly.

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 15:45

oh hell.
have i at any time said that i was in support of riab's orginal list of reasons?
did i say in my last post that BF or indeed FF people should just be quiet? tiktok said it was hard to have a discussion because the area is so sensitive. all i did was agree and offer an explanation of why i thought it was sensitive on an open forum such as this. i said i thought there was no way round that, not that people should be quiet. i supported the earlier and specific request for a segregated discussion purely because people seemed to be getting upset and my support was given in that context.
i certainly haven't said that information should be withheld.
for the record, i didn't in fact say that i think people who don't immunise are irresponsible. nor did i say that was your view tiktok. logically mind you, i would expect anyone who advocates BF, immunisation or any other practice on the basis of scientific evidence, to have a view on people who choose not to do any of those things.

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 16:02

no, you didn't pol, i wasn't really referring to you when i mentioned that. but that is why i personally do not have any issues with the way that bfers turned up to explode some of her myths.
she has her 'own' thread now, and i've seen some downright dangerous advice on it already that i can;t be bothered to argue with...

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:04

please ignore my last sentence. it was pointless and doesn't add to our discussion.

lulumama · 15/11/2006 16:08

ditto aitch....don;t fret polly.....had to step in at the point of someone advising to leave a bottle out of the fridge for 4 hours...and someone else stopped the 'closest to breast-milk ' in its tracks...

i had no desire to join in a thread that was to closet formula feeders away ... has a formula feeder, i thought it was great to have a support thread..not a closed door policy or a closed mind policy....

some of the advice on the thread is patently wrong IMHO...but you can;t debate with someone who doesn;t want to listen...

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 16:09

i liked it! and i do have a view on all those things...

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:11

i hope the advice isn't on a par with some of the corkers i was given by my own friends and family (all of which i know is dangerous bollocks, don't worry) viz:- add an extra spoon or two of powder to the mix; put baby rice in the bottle; put anti-travel sickness medicine in the bottle to keep them asleep.
this is what i mean about formula feeders being a mixed bag and BFers well informed!

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 16:12

the last sentence, i mean.

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:14

i realised. and bless you. i lost my nerve after posting it.

AitchTwoOh · 15/11/2006 16:14

you're right, polly, it's a class thing really...

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:14

i've got a view too!

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:15

not awful at all aitch if by class you mean not social but some sort of scientific grouping thing!

lulumama · 15/11/2006 16:17

right you two....step away from the thread...i repeat..step away from the thread...! LOLOLOL!

pollypeachum · 15/11/2006 16:21

see this is much more fun than a closed shop thread.

tiktok · 15/11/2006 16:25

PPM, I suppose I interpreted your support for a segregated (your word) discussion only for people who ff as another way of saying people like me sharing information should be quiet...turns out you are saying we don't have to be quiet everywhere

Which is good news!

In fact, I would not contribute to the thread with SUPPORT in caps, not because I don't SUPPORT anyone's choice to feed how they want to/have to/end up doing, but because it was set up specifically as a response to me and to others....and I would feel like a gate crasher ;)

I am glad that others have contributed, though, and I have been reading it....you can guess some of the points I have screwed my face up at!