Reasons why women don't breastfeed

[ohthegoats]

Today's breastfeeding 'news' from Brazil. I finally heard a sensible comment on the story at about lunchtime today - a woman saying that there shouldn't be surveys on whether or not it's a good thing to breastfeed, because everyone knows it is. The research should be into why so many women don't do it, or don't stick with it.

Here are my reasons why I don't like breastfeeding - has anyone got any to add? Or ideas to mitigate the issues?

After being so out of control of your body during pregnancy, being poked and prodded and 'nanny stated' out of your mind, you want control back.

Little help available when you have problems - I know this isn't true for all people.

Having to wear such unflattering underwear in order to be able to get your boobs out easily. Why hasn't this been sorted out? Why so few underwired options that actually work without causing duct blockages? Why so expensive to get even a crappy underwired one?

Having to wear clothes that are mostly unflattering too. I have one reasonable breastfeeding top out of the 10 I have bought - H&M for a tenner in the sale, not been able to find it again. They are all either too plain coloured, too low necked, horrible material, too tight in other places etc etc.

Getting stared at in public for doing it.

Being confined to the sofa for days on end.

Waking up covered in yoghurt for reasons you don't understand.

Boobs squirting milk during sex.

Think that's my starter list.

I'm 5 and a half months into ebf with my baby... plan to start moving away from it at 6 months. I've done it because it's the 'right' thing, but I've mostly hated it.

Sounds like some specific guidance is needed, Jassy. The ban on promoting formula companies is pragmatic, I think - there are all sorts of bits of freebie tat given away to HCPs (pens, post-its, diary covers) which have a formula manufacturer's name on it . Because it is illegal to advertise an actual name of an infant formula, this is an attempt to get round the legalities, by using the name of the manufacturer - so you can't say 'XYZ infant formula' but legally, you can say 'XYZ' on a product. Local guidance will therefore say their HCPs cannot promote a formula company, so no tat on display, no use of diary covers with manufacturer's name on it, no lanyards with logos...that sort of thing.

BFing is incompatible with a stressful life though, you'll have to admit. Its fine when you can sit down for half an hour every two hours but if not....

I mean, you can express a bottle to give yourself a break but realistically no-one is going to express more than one bottle a day. So the rest of the feeds its down to you.

I had to stop (food intolerances) and shortly afterwards my Dad got very ill and for weeks I had to spend hours every day with him in the hospital as there was no-one else. All I could think of was "thank God I'm not still BFing" It would have made a stressful situation intolerable. I literally didn't have time. Simple as that.

I think PP are right saying a lot of the rhetoric is anti-women. Yes.

Posters here are saying that they didn't bf because they didn't want to. Okay. Fine. But why don't you want to? Some have said that it was viscerally unappealing/horrible/etc etc. What is there in our socialisation that has resulted in women feeling like this about the biological way of feeding babies? It should feel natural! A bit like giving birth - many/most are very apprehensive at the prospect and some women suffer from tokophobia, but we all accept that if we are to have a baby, that's what's going to have to happen. Techniques have been developed (CS etc) for helping women to give birth who cannot do it vaginally, for whatever reason (physical or mental - and I speak as someone who had 2 ELCS for emotional reasons). But instead of breastfeeding being seen as the norm, with some women requiring help or not being able to, we are instead finding swathes of the population who find it repellant. That's not right. That results from centuries of anti-women rhetoric dating right back to the days of wet-nurses for the rich, because it was lower-class to breastfeed your own baby.

Tiktok or anyone else, do you know if there is any research into helping women produce milk who are struggling? A few people have mentioned a syndrome where their glands don't produce milk - is anyone working on a solution for this, other than 'just use formula'?

Many people have mentioned feeling harassed by their HV/MW because their baby wasn't putting on weight. Yes. This. I don't know what the answer is, but this was my biggest issue with bf. DD didn't thrive, lost 12% of her birthweight (went from 6lb 5 to 5lb 9) and generally took a long time to start putting on weight. I wound up feeding every 2 hours, day and night, expressing (or more accurately, trying to express) and syringe feeding. The issue wasn't my supply, it was that DD was somehow not getting enough. I do think that in the first few days I was happily 'feeding on demand', which was resulting in feeding every 4 hours during the day (every 2 at night). This seemed fine to me until DD was weighed. Maybe, more research/information regarding bf babies losing weight/being slow to regain weight might help? If I had known that feeding every 4 hours probably wasn't going to be enough, then I'd have done as I did the next time and offered a boob much more regularly in the daytime from the word go. (I had a very lovely and sympathetic MW, but she taught me one method which didn't work very well for me - sitting bolt upright with DD on a stack of pillows. I didn't really click with bf until a different MW came out when MW1 was on holiday and showed me a different and much more comfortable way to do it!)

A friend went through something similar with her DD - a HV came out every day and insisted that her baby be weighed and threatened my friend by saying that she would 'have' to switch to FF if the baby didn't start putting on weight. However, her baby had been 10 days late and very large at birth. She dropped a few centile points and wound up tracing a lower centile than she had at birth. But there was nothing wrong with her! She'd merely settled into her own groove.

It's a tricky one because obviously no one wants a baby to fail to thrive, but these stories are so common that maybe more research is needed into how fast it is reasonable for bf babies to put weight on? Or maybe like me, the 'feed on demand' message isn't always going to do the trick?

It feels like a very confusing issue between whether this debate is anti-women or whether its a feminist issue.

TooExtra, I kind of get where you are coming from but I'm not entirely convinced that it is somehow anti-women that some women would rather not go through the pain of childbirth, or the (possible) discomfort or pressure of breastfeeding.

A PP mentioned this being a feminist issue. Normally I'd roll my eyes at that statement but... actually, it feels like it might be applicable here.

A woman's body is her own. She should be allowed to make choices about and around it. As some random examples, there currently exist legal, healthy and reliable methods for preventing pregnancies, for reducing pain during childbirth, and for not breast feeding a baby.

Women should ideally be making their decisions relating to these things based on education and information. They should understand birth control, they should understand the risks involved in epidurals or cs's, they should understand the pros and cons of breast feeding and formula feeding.

But they should be allowed to still make their own decision at the end of the day.

Almost regardless of the breast feeding support available (though I don't want to ignore that area, as it is the most important area once a woman has decided to breastfeed) she should be allowed to say that physically, emotionally, psychologically, she doesn't want to breastfeed her baby for any reason she decides on.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar I have breast hypoplasia(also known as insufficient glandular tissue). It's a plumbing issue, I don't have enough milk producing glands to exclusively bf. Development of these glands in the breast occurs during puberty, so there's not much that can be done when a baby comes along. Lack of breast growthduring pregancy is thebig giveaway. Formula or donor milk top ups are the on!y solution, along with bf management to ensure my DCs get as much milk as possible.

Information on mix feeding would have saved me a huge amount of angst. I don't think I will ever entirely get over my inability to ebf my children, and it's yet another reason to hate my shitty boobs. That said, I fed DD until 18 months, and still feeding 16w DS.

Well said.

(Thurlow)

Too Extra: It is not a class issue if a woman finds it repellent to breast feed, it is her personal choice.
Huge swathes of women give up breast feeding because in the modern world, it simply does not work for them.
It is exhausting, unrelenting, painful, babies sleep better if they are ff which we all know is true, the mothers feel more in control ff, they have to work and can not be there to bf, they have other children and can not cope with the endless demands of bf. The list is truly endless, as are the posts on here explaining to you in great detail why they don't like it!
In the real world we know other people do not like seeing bf, they really think it is vulgar even if they do not say so. And that is without the comments and nasty looks. So it would either mean staying in for months on end, as some mothers do and falling into a deep well of depression and isolation, or being 'out there' and bf anyway, regardless of the feelings of others. And many mothers simply do not have the will or the wish to be exposing themselves in public every few hours. Many are private and dignified women, who have no wish to be showing their breasts to anyone ever. The very essence of motherhood is to nourish our children, and this can be done in all sorts of ways. Not all of us feel our duty as a good mother first and foremost is at the breast, far from it, our first duty as a mother is to teach our children that we have choices in this day and age, and the freedom to choose.

A trapped, depressed, sad, miserable mother is not a good start for any baby.

Cheddar, you are describing more poor care :( :(

Insufficient glandular tissue is the name of the syndrome you're describing. We don't know enough about it. It's hard to diagnose. I supported a woman who had all the classic signs of it - 'tubular' breasts and a baby who was not gaining weight. But she managed to breastfeed until well into toddlerhood by feeding more often - the smaller amount of milk she was able to produce and store was sufficient as long as it got into the baby frequently. I have no idea how generalisable her situation was. I have supported other women who have had serious problems with supply, and who have maintained some breastfeeding alongside some formula feeding. That's not for everyone - it can be very stressful worrying if your baby has had enough at every feed :( Good care enables a woman to explore what would be the best option for her.

I agree that a woman should be free to make her own choice, Thurlow. But I do find it peculiar that what appears to be a sizeable number of British women (and men) are actually repelled by the mere idea of breastfeeding, and I was trying to work out why they feel that way. It seems apparent that women of different ethnicities don't feel like this (someone quoted very high levels of bf in women from Chinese/Asian/African backgrounds) and I just wondered what the difference is. I think what I mean is - level the playing field. Work on British society as a whole accepting breastfeeding as natural and not weird/disgusting/shameful/ostentatious/the province of hippy earth mothers with boobs down to their knees.

I guess one way to achieve the above would be to improve support/information/research for women who do want to breastfeed, who begin but have given up by 6 weeks. Give them the tools they need to keep going in as many cases as possible. That would improve numbers, which might start to change people's attitudes in the long run.

"babies sleep better if they are ff which we all know is true".....do we?

All of them?

All the time?

And all of us 'know' this?!

The only reason for not bf that is really worth other women getting upset about is "I desperately wanted to bf but could not access any support and I'm devastated". All of the other reasons mentioned are the woman in questions business and not ours.

I'm pregnant with dd1. I recently saw a mw who took one of my postnatal appointments with ds. I mentioned to her that we'd met but that I was probably crying hysterically about bf the last time I saw her! She asked how bf went and I said that I bf him to 6 months (but only mix fed), she replied "so it was all worth it then". I just don't know if it was. It was so painful. My nipples still have scars on. My first month with ds was just pain and struggle. In the end I enjoyed bf but only because I ff too if that makes sense. I feel very guilty about it though. It was selfishness, I could probably got back to ebf after ds had his tt snipped but I didn't want to. When ds got eczema I cried in the gp and said "I did that". I would prefer, perhaps a system of bf promotion (encouragement?? support??) that didn't leave me feeling like that.

I also think that ante natal bf info is shit. Mastitis and thrush were my main worries before ds was born and I wasn't even really worried about them if I'm honest. Absolutely no realistic information at all.

Heart, everything you are saying is more evidence that breastfeeding is not considered a natural part of British society. Women don't want to do it in public because they are afraid of how others will react or they feel vulgar/undignified. Women don't want to do it because they don't have any support for looking after their other children. Women have to go back to work. Women are exhausted because their baby wakes at night - again, lack of a support network to help during the day.

I don't mean to imply that a woman's choice should not be paramount. I'm saying that women make choices based on the way the world is at the moment. If the world was different maybe some women would choose differently.

NickyEds, the midwife saying 'so it was all worth it' is not good care, either..though no doubt she thought she was being kind and supportive.

It's up to you to decide whether it was or not :)

Heart - Nope my GP told me he was not allowed to discuss FF. Ever. If he said anything that could be taking as a positive towards FF, telling me to try it, which brand etc he would be seen as promoting it.

No GP or HV I've seen will say a word about FF it's just "we can only talk about BF"

But she managed to breastfeed until well into toddlerhood by feeding more often you mean more often than every 2 hours?

yes I think that is right.
There was a midwife at my hosp who hissed at me 'you are not going to be able to bf those twins. Get a steriliser. and DONT tell a soul what I have said'.
I swear.

wrapped my hv, who was lovely, fully supported me moving to FF. I saw her at 5 weeks and told her I was going to introduce more bottles over the coming week.

DS has been feeding for 45 minutes of most hours for about 2 weeks and I was just so exhausted. Poor little thing would be at the breast, thrashing around doing this head bobbing thing - goodness knows what was wrong. It's a shame as it had gone well for the first couple of weeks.

It wasn't working as it should and she couldn't see a problem with the latch so supported the move. I don't know if that was her lack of knowledge not picking up on something that was wrong, or if that is just how it is. Seeing friends' babies it seems unusual, especially combined with the excessive pain, there was probably something wrong.

Most of my friends are childless and are all fairly disgusted by the idea of breastfeeding in general, especially for anything more than a couple of weeks. My Mum, who is late 50s is of a similar opinion that it is only for very young infants too.

Women don't want to do it because they don't have any support for looking after their other children. Women have to go back to work. Women are exhausted because their baby wakes at night - again, lack of a support network to help during the day.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in those points, especially nowadays.

So many new mums now live a long way from family and friends, all stuck in these commuter towns where we don't know anyone very well.

If I'd lived in the same town as my parents, I might have considered trying breast feeding. I might have felt I had more support. Someone to do other things around the house, someone to bring me dinner while I was sitting on the sofa, someone to mind the baby for an hour while I napped.

Just go through the boards. How many new mums are going it pretty much alone once their DH goes back to work?

Ox, initially, yes, and then as the baby got older and had solids and then normal meals, she fed her much less often than that.....IIRC she was just feeding morning and evening when she finally stopped.

Just go through the boards. How many new mums are going it pretty much alone once their DH goes back to work?

Absolutely. The interest and support that might be there in the beginning soon wears off and you're on your own.

I'm off to see a friend tomorrow with her newborn. I'm taking her a dine in meal deal, not a onesie!!

NottheOP, yes, I once made the mistake of saying at a team lunch that I was still bf DD at 20 months. The men didn't know where to look and 2 women (close friends!) who had breastfed their own children for approx 6 months each absolutely laid into me telling me I was disgusting. I was shocked and really hurt. These two women had both been really supportive when I was pg, telling me all about their own experiences of breastfeeding, but apparently not after about a year, max. After that it's just for your own gratification.

Sunny, not sure if you're saying the midwife did a good thing there! What a horrible thing to say to a new mother...and to treat her as a co-conspirator is awful.

TooExtra: I completely agree that the natural networks have disappeared from view in British society, it is rare to have the support of our own mothers for long or at all (they are now working or busy in some way) neighbours and the circle of relatives do not exist for many/most unlike the old days when we all lived close to each other, so there is often no one to help the mother or the baby or help with the other children. It places an enormous burden/pressure on the mother. If those networks returned women may very well choose to bf for longer because some pressures would be lifted. Not for all, but for some.

Financial reasons is also another issue we did not have to contend with thirty plus years ago, and the need to get back to work is pressing for some mothers. It is very hard to bf and work full time! Or even part time! It is a colliding of worlds which does blend well. More paternity leave may help, as mothers would have support from their dh for longer and therefore more likely to get through the hardest part at the beginning, but most see their dh disappearing before the week has even finishes, afraid to lose their job.

Women WOULD have far more choices if the above was in place, but the natural order is no longer there, and for a vast number they are raising babies and children completely alone, often working as well, and feeling it all from all sides. No support. No circles of care. Bf is a low priority when faced with the harsh realities of life.

Oh no, wait. It's only okay until they get teeth. I protested that some babies get teeth at 4 months and others don't until 11 months. DD didn't have any teeth until she was 11 months and DS is 8 months and still toothless. Anyway, there was no arguing with them - I was Just Wrong.