Have you ever given up breastfeeding?

[israel]

I have been reading the thread on breastfeeding being so painfull and everyones very helpful comments....I only wish you had all been around when I so wanted to get it right.
To this day I still feel as though there could have been more help for me.
With both my children I so wanted to bf...I have very big bossoms and not very big nipples. It was agony...I would cry with pain...my nipples became cracked and sore and baby just opened up the old wounds every time...eventually drinking blood and milk..horrible!...I tried lanosil..nipple sheild, leaving them to the open air but I eventually got mastitis and I couldn't even bare to hold my babies anymore...In al I struggled for 2 weeks with dd1 and 3 weeks with ds who is now 3...Only when I put both babies on formula did I begin to recover but even to this day I still felt a bit of a failure...However if I had seen anyone else go through what I went through I would have told them to give up sooner.
Has anyone else ever gone through the same and if so, at which point did you decide to stop bf?

I don't think I have jumped on any comment that was a bit negative, MissChief - I did say how offended I felt at NCT being 'cursed' for saying and thinking things that ZolaPola could not back up with examples. I have not done any jumping apart from that

If people misunderstand the message, I agree, then there is something up....but I do think as intelligent people, all of us have a responsibility to know if accusations are thrown at the right people! My only moan on here has been at that accusation - the one and only moan. It was an unfair accusation. I think ZolaPola is right to rail at attitudes which condemn women or don't listen to them, but wrong to state these were in some way part of NCT. She still hasn't retracted that, but told her experience of a breastfeeding counsellor saying some things which sounded fairly reasonable to me!

I didn't attack stripymouse in anyway, or afraidtoconfessit, or israel - I responded to people's experiences of being judged in a sympathetic way. I also gave information of how people could make a complaint or give feedback about NCT. My only negative response was to ZolaPola, because of her accusation.

I don't know what you mean about hearing the 'other side of the story' re breastfeeding and problems - the aim of the bf class is to outline some of the problems and how they can be avoided/dealt with....

I am under no illusions that all bf counsellors in NCT deal with all the 36,000 calls (on the bf line) and the something like 20, 000 other calls we get in a perfect way. Of course there will be times we get it wrong. But we don't get it wrong in the way ZP suggested.

ks, thanks for this.

You said: " Similarly breastfeeding. Yes, difficulties were touched on, but there was never any doubt that we were all going to try, because that was best, and if you couldn't... well... not your fault... said with a small sigh, grin, and downward glance, then a small silence as we all considered how we would cope if we didn't breastfeed."

And what would have been a better way to deal with it, given it was the breastfeeding class, and you all went to it, knowing it would do what it said on the tin? The small sigh scenario....that is maybe how it felt, but I have observed as well as carried out scores and scores of bf classes and I don't recognise it as a literal depiction of what goes on.

The vast majority of women going to an NCT class say they want to breastfeed. They may be lying, I don't know! Maybe they are just saying that. But if we take what they say at face value, they want to try it....and they need to know there are problems, that many women do try it and find it isn't plain sailing, and that it isn't their fault. For some women, not being able to breastfeed is a big deal, and they need to know that.

"One of our group didn't, I remember, and she was really upset about it. Partly because it had been focused on to death in our NCT group." I think when women really want to breastfeed and then don't because it all goes wrong, they may well feel upset because of all they have learnt about breastfeeding - and NCT classes may have a role in that.

I don't know what the perfect answer is. Not talk much about breastfeeding, and leave the people who need/want to know about it as under-informed as the world around them? In order to prevent exacerbating the distress of those who wanted to and didn't manage it? Or is informing and discussing the way forward, to help more people become able to fill in that information/support gap themselves?

I think on the whole, NCT get it right - obviously, not every moment of every day, and not with every single one of the many thousands of encounters with women it has every year.....but we don't bang on about breast is best, and we certainly do take women's pain seriously.

I can't comment about the antenatal teaching and epidurals and so on, sorry.

Yes, I believe you....it's your experience, and you observed it.

So - genuine question for you or anyone else, which you haven't answered, ks - what is the best way to introduce/explore breastfeeding in an antenatal class?

In fact, I'll make a new thread

Tiktok -your comments to & about me are personal and hurtful- I posted on this in good faith (note the subject title) having had such a terrible labour & b/f experience myself (yet antenatally having being a strong advocate of b/f, natural birth etc). I refuse to go into any more details about my experience - I don't want to, it's upsetting TBH. I feel it's also upsetting to be attacked by a representative from the very organisation who I felt let me down when I needed help- from the b/f counsellor antenatally to those I called on the phone. I accept now and have always that I was unlucky in this - I know several people involved in the NCT who I'm sure do good work, BUT that was not my experience at the time I sought help and how dare you question MY b/f experience! TBH you have let down the NCT in the way you have chosen to respond to me.
And, BTW, as given in my previous message, my example was the b/f counsellor at my antenatal class, I don't remember her name (being 3 yrs ago now) and even if I did, I see no need to respond to your demand for information. You should post here as a fellow & equal member not to demand answers to your many questions which you have the time to ask but others may not have the time or inclination to answer. I don't want any more demanding questions from you, but merely hope that you show more sympathy to those now in the sad, painful situation I was in who seek both advice AND support.

Tiktok -your comments to & about me are personal and hurtful- I posted on this in good faith (note the subject title) having had such a terrible labour & b/f experience myself (yet antenatally having being a strong advocate of b/f, natural birth etc). I refuse to go into any more details about my experience - I don't want to, it's upsetting TBH. I feel it's also upsetting to be attacked by a representative from the very organisation who I felt let me down when I needed help- from the b/f counsellor antenatally to those I called on the phone. I accept now and have always that I was unlucky in this - I know several people involved in the NCT who I'm sure do good work, BUT that was not my experience at the time I sought help and how dare you question MY b/f experience! TBH you have let down the NCT in the way you have chosen to respond to me.
And, BTW, as given in my previous message, my example was the b/f counsellor at my antenatal class, I don't remember her name (being 3 yrs ago now) and even if I did, I see no need to respond to your demand for information. You should post here as a fellow & equal member not to demand answers to your many questions which you have the time to ask but others may not have the time or inclination to answer. I don't want any more demanding questions from you, but merely hope that you show more sympathy to those now in the sad, painful situation I was in who seek both advice AND support.

apologies to all for this being dragged on, but I had to defend myself having just come back to thread. Also for sending message twice. Feeling rather sad now having read it all.

I understand what Ks meant when she said "But I also think that merely by saying 'If you can't breastfeed, it's not your fault, it's OK' you are setting up a sense of failure for those who can't".

Anyone saying to you "if you can't breastfeed its not your fault" - implies that there is some fault somewhere, suggesting negativity. That is why you are setting that person up with a sense of failure.

Thanks Ks, I guess many of us feel we're bad mothers (sure you're not btw and yours got b/f which is a great start). I feel fine now cos was in my dim & distant past, just a bit sensitive about it and in some ways put off doing it all again - maybe I'd need a wet nurse next time!

ZolaPola, I don't want you to feel bad, and feel very sorry that somehow I have contributed to that. That is genuine. And I feel sad too.

Please re-read my posts. I have just done so....they are not soft and fluffy but I really did not attack you - I challenged your accusations, and I was offended, but you were unable to back up what you said. I have re-read my post - you say I question your breastfeeding experience, but I don't ...of course you don't have to make a formal complaint about something if you don't want to. This was really to point out that if someone calls us and doesn't get the help/listening they expect, they can leave feedback about it.

tatcity, thanks for the explanation. Saying something is not someone's fault doesn't have to mean the fault lies somewhere else....yes, it does imply that when breastfeeding stops before the mother wanted it to, it is a negative thing for her....isn't that what some of these sad experiences show? That people are sad when they wanted to do something that didn't work out?

I won't post on this thread again (unless anyone says anything I feel I have to defened myself against ; )) . I wish you all well.

oh god, i'm going to be cast out for this, but having read this thread, i'm afraid that i'm with zp and ks. tiktok, in your defence of the nct, i'm afraid that imo you have done exactly what these women have experienced: implied that breastfeeding is indeed best. the fact is that b/f is physiological, but so are a lot of things that we as humans don't always do, and i know i'll get slated for this, but the huge push there is for b/fding is like most other 'scientifically' proven things: a fashion. i'm not saying that b/fding isn't perhaps a more natural way of feeding your child, but the evidence that you're citing seems to imply that to formula feed is to put your baby at risk which imo is boll**ks (i need to be careful to cite the bit i mean so here: 'formula feeding does have risks. When researchers found women who had not breastfed had a higher risk of cancer, and babies who had not breastfed were more likely to be admitted to hospital or have gastro-enteritis '. re the first one, are we talking about one research paper or several? every other week there is 'evidence' cited that this gives you cancer or that doesn't. research is always flawed imo. doesn't mean don't do it or take any notice of it, but don't swallow it whole. gastro-enteritis is caused sometimes by not sterilising bottles and teats properly, but that is not the same as it being caused by formula is it? so support mothers that decide to formula feed with good information about hygiene. there is an insidious message coming across from your posts which is that yes indeed, breast is best and if you can't do it, then you should be sad and disappointed. imo this is damaging, and totally wrong. no doubt in the next five years or so there will be studies that 'prove' that formula feeding is safer than b/fding (and they will be as bollox as the ones stating the opposite). we have more than enough to worry about as mothers with the amount of pollution there is in the air our babies breath and the toxins present in almost every household product. babies have survived and thrived on formula for many years and before that i expect mother's that didn't find that they could breastfeed gave their babies cows milk (shock, horror). love and consistency of caregiving is the most important factor in a baby's ability to thrive. breastfeeding is great for those that want to and find it easy. formula is fine too. i was formula fed and am generally more healthy and get sick less often than my breast fed sister. 'presenting the facts as they are' just doesn't work: all 'facts' are in the eye of the beholder anyway. i rang the nct helpline in a total state as i didn't feel that i was producing enought milk for my baby and he was waking every 1 1/2 hours at night. all i got from the (extremely pleasant) counsellor was ways in which to increase my milk supply (including the use of drugs from my gp!!!). what i wanted was to be listened to and presented with ALL the options (one of which i decided on, which was to introduce one bottle of formula per day). but instead i felt that i got the 'party' line. and was left feeling guilty and anxious. the fact that ds started sleeping better almost immediately may have something to do with what he was being fed, or it could be that i was more relaxed and he picked this up, or it could just be coincidence. but i know that if i hadn't talked things through with a friend of mine's maternity nurse who told me to do what i felt would work and be right for ME and MY child, I would have given up breastfeeding altogether. ive rambled and ranted, but i'm cross that this thread might make someone feeding their baby formula feel guilty: here of all places. for a long time formula was touted as being better than breastmilk and i understand the need for the govt (and the nct) to emphasise that this is not the case. but i think the pendulum has swung to far back the other way and the too much emphasis is placed on the importance of breastfeeding and not enough on supporting mothers whatever their decisions through the onerous task of being a new parent. btw i breastfed exclusively to 3 1/2 months and am still mostly breastfeeding with one formula feed a day at six months and plan to continue as long as i feel like it and it works for me and ds.

ohmigod, i really did rant didn't i. i hope i don't offend anyone tiktok included by the below (if you can actually wade through it, esp given lack of punctuation), but it's an emotive one for me.

Go go go!
Yeah. Am fed up with feeling guilty and depressed that i gave up bfeeding my ds as it REALLY HURT! But you know, when i was crying and not feeding him because i knew how much it was going to hurt, formula was probably better than him lying there crying with hunger?

v.emotive for me too Sophable, glad I'm not the only one - You didn't ramble BTW, you gave all the details I was lambasted for omitting. Here's hoping we're not cast out! I AM pro the NCT, BTW, I just wish it was less evangelical and more realistic ( oh god, am I starting it all again?) IMO! ...Best wishes to you all.

yep, Miranda, it was! In an ideal world we would all b/f but we're not, so if it helps, learn from my lessons - don't feel guilty, trust yr instinct and do all you can for yr baby and to enjoy it and if you feel strong enough explain why if anyone challenges you.

But of course breast-feeding is best. In the same way that conception by natural sexual intercourse is best and being healthy and not needing drugs to survive is best.
Neither are always possible - and thanks to science we have ivf etc., and insulin and anti-biotics .... and artificial milk.
Artificial milk is brilliant and saves lives - but how can it be touted as equal to the perfection of human ingredients in breast-milk??

Surely it is important that there are people who do go on about the benefits of breastfeeding!
So few people in this country breastfeed so i think it is brilliant that there are people who do go on about the benefits. I would hate it if research about these benefits were hidden so even fewer people breastfed just becuase some people feel guilty about bottlefeeding. I would be furious had i not been given info about bf after having ds and had i not been able to read research.
There are lots of allergies in my family, my mum bottlefed us and my brother still suffers as an adult from excema and asthma so much so it controls his life. My mum did what she thought was best as that was the info at the time. She wishes now that she could have been told it abou the benefits of bf. No guatrantess of course but at least from her view point he woukld have stood a better chance.

Agree with goosey. Formula is a great invention which babies thrive on butr it is not breastmilk!

it's not equal - that's I guess why so many of us feel guilty. But if a mum's in huge pain, depressed and unable to feed, on balance the care she gives her child with formula milk is often better than struggling on with b/f.

Absolutely Zolapola.

But if you are suffering in this way then why feel guilty as there perhaps isnt a choice?

Totally agree ZP.

human (or female) condition, isn't it to feel guilty? Especially once a mum, that's my experience anyway.