Have you ever given up breastfeeding?

[israel]

I have been reading the thread on breastfeeding being so painfull and everyones very helpful comments....I only wish you had all been around when I so wanted to get it right.
To this day I still feel as though there could have been more help for me.
With both my children I so wanted to bf...I have very big bossoms and not very big nipples. It was agony...I would cry with pain...my nipples became cracked and sore and baby just opened up the old wounds every time...eventually drinking blood and milk..horrible!...I tried lanosil..nipple sheild, leaving them to the open air but I eventually got mastitis and I couldn't even bare to hold my babies anymore...In al I struggled for 2 weeks with dd1 and 3 weeks with ds who is now 3...Only when I put both babies on formula did I begin to recover but even to this day I still felt a bit of a failure...However if I had seen anyone else go through what I went through I would have told them to give up sooner.
Has anyone else ever gone through the same and if so, at which point did you decide to stop bf?

AT least you wanted to breastfeed, Israel, at least you tried. Plenty of people around who won't even try br'feeding with their very first baby. Or stop for really stupid reasons, like they want to get drunk with impunity. Those are the people that I find hard to accept. Nobody has the right to criticise if you tried hard and then gave up because it was hellish.
-Speaking as signed up paid for member of the militant breastfeeding cult.

Nobody gets to be the 100% perfect parent, remembering that is how I try to come to terms with these types of disappointments.

Should add: when my 1st baby was due, someone at my local NCT branch told me that they only provided br'feeding support to NCT members. I have since had horrified responses to that from other NCT-types, but unfortunately it's true that first impressions really do count for a lot.

I gave up with both mine after three weeks. With ds1 the depression was so bad I didn't want to even hold him. With ds2 I wanted to feed for longer but it started to get really painful and I would be crying whilst feeding him. I wanted to quit but I also wanted to carry on. The decision was taken away from me when I needed to go back on medication and I'm glad it was.

For anyone who's ever tried to breastfeed and for as long as they've managed it, good on them. I was one of two people who were breastfeeding whilst I was in hospital. It clearly made others uncomfortable especially at visiting but I never pulled the curtains around the bed. I'm pleased I did it and if there's a number three then I'd do it again for as little or as long as I felt able.

I don't have any shame about pulling out a bottle just like some other mums don't have any shame getting out their breast. We are all caring for our babies and that's the main thing.

to Israel and everyone, breast-feeding or not, in the NCT or not!
TBH, as a relatively new member I was getting put off giving my opinion! In the context of this thread (ie on 'giving up' b/f) I thought my message might support another member. I thought that was the point of mumsnet? This is not, after all, the NCT website and I was in no way making sweeping statements (at the time my toddler allowed me to post no more than a short message), note I said "those in the NCT" by which I meant a few not ALL, but again IMO and from my experience. Unless someone was offensive I would never demand a retraction to another's
response, no matter how much and how strongly I disagreed with it. Thanks, AfraidtoConfess, for your support!

Afraidtoconfess: if you read ZolaPola's post you will see that any 'confronting' was done by her. She talked about 'cursing NCT' for saying things/doing things that NCT does not do or say.

I explainined that. If of course she had experience of 'NCT' in the form of policy or its trained workers thinking mothers were 'wimps', not listening to their pain or believing them, or ramming on about breast is best , then I wanted her to confirm this.

I don't mind a bit people positing their opinion. But when accusations fly round that aren't true, then it doesn't matter where it is, I think it's ok to expect a correction. 'Sorry, I got it wrong,' would have done me

You thought I was authoritarian. My response was in keeping with the accusatory tone ZP had set.

I am sorry you think it's unhelpful to suggest that feelings of self-blame are 'worse' than sadness or disappointment....but it's actually quite a standard strand in various therapies to help someone look at a situation and see how something wasn't their fault. That's not to say the experience doesn't matter or they are making a fuss about nothing. But they can absolve themselves of the feelings of failure. It's not gonna help everyone, that's for sure. That's why it was a suggestion.

Wills - someone from NCT deciding you weren't in your catchment area and not helping you....I am really sorry about that. We do normally help people wherever they are, and whether or not they are members (about 99 per cent of our calls are from non-members!). Counsellors in very busy areas, like London, may decide not to take calls from outside their patch as a way of managing their workload, or a counsellor going through a busy period in her own life might decide to concentrate on mothers local to her. However, they should always refer you to someone who can help you, not leave you in the lurch.

Anyone who's read my posts on here knows I feel very deeply about the crap deal women get when it comes to infant feeding support. I think women get short-changed with information and support whatever they choose to use to feed their babies, and they may end up feeling bad about themselves and their choices. They can feel criticised and undermined whatever they do - but that's the way some people are in this world, sadly. It only takes one look, or one careless remark, to a mother who's feeling vulnerable, to make her feel like s**t. That applies to mothers who breastfeed and to those who use formula.

That's why NCT does not ram on about breast is best, or think that mothers who are in pain are wimps.

And that's why I was offended when ZP said the opposite.

Just wanted to add my support to those of you who found b/f so difficult. I struggled too but was lucky enough to have a great b/f counsellor through NHS, not NCT. If I hadn't had her support, as well as dh, I wouldn't have been able to keep going and I do sympathise with people who stopped. Came very close to it myself and can completely understand. At the point when I was in agony and nothing seemed to work I got very angry with the 'breastfeeding mafia' ? not because anyone had given me a hard time, just that I felt such a failure I needed someone to be angry with and was so upset that after all the promotion of b/f I couldn't do it. As I said, I was very, very lucky to have a great b/f counsellor who kept me going. I hated b/f for those first few weeks, to the point of dreading feeds and starting to be scared of my baby. But then got out the other side. And when I finally stopped to go back to work I really missed it! So I hope if there is a next time for you, and you try again, you get all the support you need. But don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work. You are still fantastic mummies.

I understand , ZP.....you didn't mean 'all' of NCT but 'some'.

But who???

I am not being confrontational - I can believe those attitudes you rightly dislike (the ones that think bf women in pain are wimps, and the ones that go on and on about breast is best) are out there. I don't think they are very common attitudes, but they exist.

My offence was taken at you linking these with NCT. Yes, I was offended. My experience of NCT is of volunteers giving up a lot of time to help mothers whatever their feeding choices, in ways which acknowledge their pain and which certainly don't bang on with a message.

Like I said, if you came across these attitudes at a drop in or wherever, then it's not really 'some' of NCT, is it? It's just 'some' people who happen to use NCT services.

If you overhear someone making a stupid remark in the antenatal clinic, you don't then link it to the NHS.

(Crappy analogy - hope you get what I mean )

eddm - feeling mad at breastfeeding promotion and people who engage in it when it's all going horribly wrong is totally understandable.

That's why any promotion of breastfeeding has to take place in a context where help and support is available instantly, and where breastfeeding is supported from the beginning by skilled and knowledgeable people.

Given that most women have their babies within the health service, this becomes a health service responsibility.

If the right support isn't there, then any bf promotion becomes one big con.

It's like telling people they should give up smoking, and not supplying the tactics/group support/nicotine patches/whatever to do it.

I gave up after a month of expressing with dd1 (she was pre-term and never latched on.) I didn't really feel I could ask for help from anyone - just thought I couldn't do it as. Have found it so so hard to comes to terms with. Now expecting baby number two. Scared of the same thing happening. I have a birth doula and a post-natal doula lined up (mainly to help with bf) but I'd be grateful to know if there is any other support I can get hooked up with before I run into difficulties (if it's the right place to ask on this thread. Don't want to hijack!)

I couldnt bf my youngest, even with fantastic support from the NHS and NCT, although did two before first very hard but second a dream! The NCT has all sorts of people in it and some are fabulous whilst some are not so good. MAybe I am getting this wrong but its like some services are good in some places and sometimes they are not of course we should all say when they arent but how many of us complain in restaurants and when things go wrong? It is hard especially when we feel vulnerable and uncertain.

Oh my goodness - yes!!

With DD1 there were no problems and all was well till she was about 6 months when I decided I just wanted my body back. With DD2 there was just no way - it was the shape of her mouth - we tried and tried - I naively actually thought for the first couple of days she was getting something but then she came down with jaundice and was readmitted to hospital where we tried and tried some more. By day 4 I said "this is enough - she is starving, I am stressed, where's the formula?" Then I went through a week of hell while I dried out. The only time I have ever been in more pain was when I actually gave birth. I think this was worse because it actually lasted days. I can still remember sitting there not able to move with these absolutely huge boobs hanging out surrounded in cabbage leaves!!! Oh my goodness!! The baby thrived after she actually started getting something in and the jaundice went away within a couple of days. So what I am really trying to say is as far as other peoples opinions you really just have to do what is best for the baby AND for you. IMO there is nothing wrong with formula. I had wished I could bf her but it just didn't happen. But oh those cabbage leaves - I still can't eat cabbage without remembering what I had to do with it once!!

Didn't have time to read the whole thread (back at work now) but israel this could be me you're describing.

I also have unfeasabily large boobs (30H before DS 32HH now) and was so sure they were meant for breastfeeding.... s'funny looking back now but it meant so much to me, I thought my world would end when I realised I would have to give up breastfeeding and I was convinced DS should be adopted by a mummy who could look after him properly 'cos I obviously couldn't!!

All rubbish of course. I must admit that without mumsnet and my wonderful DH I think I would have disappeared into an all encompassing pit of depression.

I had the BF counsellor round 3 times, and although we tried we just couldn't get DS to latch on properly. I was also bleeding constantly and had mastitis (temp of 104 and shaking like a leaf). The pain was like nothing I've ever felt before and reverberated through my whole body. I also had a reaction to the antibiotics I was given so lost my appetite and couldn't sleep. After 3 weeks I was not in a very pretty state.

DS is now 7 1/2 months and absolutely gourgeous and to be honest I don't think he cares two hoots (or should that be hooters - forgive the pun) that he wasn't breastfed.

The odler he gets, the more objectively I can look at it, but in my heart I still feel a pang of regret, and guilt, thet I couldn't get passed 3 weeks.... I know I shouldn't but I'm only human after all....

In the end, it's what's best for baby and mummy that counts.

BR

oh dear.. sorry for the long post... sort of happened..

Hi israel, I lasted three weeks. Pain, bleeding nipples and three bouts of mastitis finished me off. One of the best decisions I've made! I was suddenly sane and happy and started to enjoy DS for the first time.

Have to agree with ZolaPola on this, I feel the NCT (official ante-natal teacher, and especially the local designated breastfeeding counsellor) were terrible. like many others I had 6 weeks of breastfeeding agony with my first baby. The message I had consistently from my NCT "support" was that it didn't hurt if done correctly, it was all down to positioning. Even though I repeatedly got help and confirmation that my positioning and latching was fine. AND IT STILL REALLY HURT. the NCT counsellors did not accept this.

Eventually a really nice NHS breastfeeding counsellor located the problem as baby with small mouth plus slight tongue tie.

I did continue breastfeeding dd1 til 10 months, and dd2 for 9 months, and am doing it again for the 3rd time now (5 days in and it's agony again) so certainly know a bit about breastfeeding now but still feel the NCT approach was outrageous.

Anyone who gives it up has my total sympathy I have no idea how I lasted those first 6 weeks. actually now i think about it I used to take paracetamol, then lots of red wine and swear like mad glaring at the baby. All this behaviour was not NCT approved.

Bf ds1 for around 5 months even though didn't really enjoy it - he wouldn't come off the boob, plus a bad bout of mastitis. Fed ds2 for only 7 or so weeks - another bout of mastitis & really wanted him to be able to take a bottle - afraid of mess I got into with ds1. Will try bf again with this one due in June, but why do I always get mastitis?

I have to agree in part with what some others have said re some NCT counsellors - only my exp & only some. Had lots of problems with ds1 and just got the impression they weren't listening - it was just 'You must carry on feeding, you must carry on feeding', regardless of the real pain/upset it was causing.

Don't really want to enter into the fray but would like to comment on this.

I originally had trouble finding an NCT breast feed counsellor (took 5 phone calls to NCT) but when I found her, she was considerate, helpful and totally understanding of how I felt and the trauma I was going through. She visited 3 times and spent countless time on the phone reassuring me. She never once tried to convince me that breast was good and bottle was bad.

IMHO the NCT are like every other service provider. They lay down guidelines but after this, the NCT is purely reliant on the people who work for them. So I can understand Tiktok's point that it would be a bit unfair to slate the NCT generally just because some of the people are not following the guideleine. However, the fact remains that if some people are not following the guidelines, then the service is not infallable.

It just so happened my BFC was an absolute star....

BR

A2C, MORE support for your position! I can't imagine how upset and demoralised you must have been feeling to contemplate freezing formula, and how insensitive of anyone to make any form of derogatory comment or gesture.

I can quite see how this happens, and I think there is a cross-over of message between the lobbying, campaigning role of VARIOUS organisations, and the individual message on the ground to b/f individuals.

We had a joke in our post-natal group (all committed b/f and active birthers, by aspiration, at any rate!) "I've had a double mastectomy - will I be able to breastfeed?" "yes, of course, all you need is the right support, advice and help, phone the helpline...".

TikTok, I agree, generalisations are not helpful, but it is to the NCT's credit that the campaigning for better rights, facilities etc in suport of b/f have become so well-known, and IME it was NCT local groups and members who were responsible for the attitude that bottle-feeding was 'bad'. In your own post below, you state that formula 'has risks' - isn't it rather the case that breast milk 'has benefits' which are lacking in formula - a statement which tells formula feeding mums that they are putting their babies at risk is hardly likely to make them feel great, is it?

I'm sorry that you didn't get the support you needed.You bf your little ones & they got the first milk that is sometimes called liquid gold as it is just so valuable and important. This is something to be really proud of. You had probs that didn't resolve as you would have liked but you found a solution that worked for you, dd & ds.

It is awful if an NCT counsellor makes someone feel bad - and any counsellor should consider tongue tie if the positioning and attachment seem ok, but the pain is still there. You can give feedback to NCT on the bf line, and it really helps us if you have things to say that would enable a better service.

'Not listening' is a pretty bad crime for a breastfeeding counsellor!!! Listening skills are the number one training area for NCT breastfeeding counsellors....there is a lot of emphasis on it. I honestly don't think any of us even think anything like 'you must carry on breastfeeding' but nor would we ever say 'you should think about stopping'....true listening means not telling anyone what they must/should do. But if anyone gives the impression that's what they're thinking, then they are at fault....certainly.

Blu, sorry, formula feeding does have risks. When researchers found women who had not breastfed had a higher risk of cancer, and babies who had not breastfed were more likely to be admitted to hospital or have gastro-enteritis (and you can insert your own list of findings here - it's a long one!) what they are finding is that these are the risks of formula feeding. Breastfeeding is the normal, physiological way to feed babies. Saying 'breastmilk has benefits' is like saying that not smoking has benefits over smoking, or that breathing has benefits over having an oxygen mask on, or that having your own blood circulating has benefits over having a blood transfusion.

I am not saying that using formula is like smoking, or using an oxygen mask.....I am asking for information to be presented in a clear and honest way.

Formula feeding has risks. Mothers need to know this, and make a calculated, informed choice. No one can say what is best for every individual mother and baby.

We know that breastfed babies are likely to run fewer health risks than formula fed babies, but that's only to look at the situation in a narrow, health-focussed way. Feeding - however it is done - is more than just a way of getting milk into babies. It is a relationship, and it takes place in a social and emotional context. Only each individual mother can weigh everything up, and decide if her own emotional and social context makes breastfeeding right for her and her baby (and yes, pain and the experience of it will have an impact on that).

Part of that weighing up is to know the facts about breastmilk, and certain aspects will weigh more heavily with some than with others. For example, if it's normal to breastfeed in your family, you might find it emotionally more uncomfortable to formula feed, and you'd weigh that up against your sore nipples (as it were!). If you are getting a lot of hassle for breastfeeding in the first place, then you might stop doing it because it's emotionally uncomfortable to breastfeed.

Breastfeeding is the best way to feed babies, but it's not the only way of mothering....and that's a personal choice.

Oh....and the thing about the double mastectomy......

This has been known, and the mother involved got donated expressed breastmilk for her baby.

israel - I could have written your post too. I stuggled for a few weeks with No.1 with the "help" of some maffia styled MWs who all but bullied me into keeping going at all costs. As soon as I stopped, they left me alone - feeling almost abandoned and as if I was not worth bothering with anymore and the "battle" was "lost". Left me feeling inadequate, traumatised and very angry that I had let it go so far that it was making me dread my baby waking up because I would have to feed her. Instead of looking back on those first few weeks and remembering being tired but "blissfully happy" I remember the pain, stress, constant worry and a whole host of other negative feelings. Thank God my DH was there to support me and persuade me to call it a day (he could see me starting to fall apart and even go as far as to say resenting ever having had a baby).
No.2 arrived and, boy, what a different story. Still gave BF a go, diff. MWs and HV, told them in no uncertain terms that I would not be bullied one way or the other, was giving it my best shot and if it didn?t work out, switching to bottles.
BF for a fortnight with mixed feeds after a couple of days and have bottle fed ever since. Gorgeous little baby, happy mum and happy dad.
I still feel embarrased bottle feeding in public as I feel people around me often judge and give funny little looks - but sod them. It is my baby and my life and I will not go through a second round of what I experienced first time by trying for too long to conform with what is thought to be the "correct" way to feed my child.

TikTok, picky I know, and I may be wrong - but isn't the 'default' risk of breast cancer ammeliorated by b/f, i.e there is a 'benefit' in b/f which helps to bring the risk down, rather than NOT b/f putting the risk up?
These things are so, so sensitive for Mums who bottle feed not by choice, but because of circumstances, that I do think it's worth being quietly realistic rather than emphatic with words like 'risk'.

(I b/f without problem for well over a year, but was SO aware of the 'attitude' meted out to my struggling friends) (in fact I was aggressively pressurised by the peadiatrician in the post natal ward to give my 3 day old formula in response to a touch of jaundice. I ignored him and kept DS near the window and fed him frequently, and he recovered instantly).

Stripeymouse,
Here here.

happy mummy + happy daddy = happy baby = happy family

BR

Blul - I agree about being sensitive, and being 'quietly realistic' is my aim. The way I (or anyone else) 'talks' to someone here (or, for that matter, person to person), will match their needs and the tone they set....hence my admission to being offended when ZolaPola 'cursed' some people in NCT who (apparently) thought women in pain were wimps and who banged on about breast is best (without being able to say who these 'some' people were!).

Saying there are risks in formula feeding is correct, but I would never say to someone directly 'you are putting your baby at risk' because that is, as you suggest, too emphatic and puts formula feeding in the same category as, say, someone who drives a car with a 'loose' baby in the back seat.

I'm not sure I get your point about breast cancer, sorry. Prob me being a bit thick about stats Do you mean that there is always a risk of breast cancer simply because of being a woman and having breasts (like there is always a risk of prostate cancer for me, simply because of having a prostate)? And breastfeeding lowers that risk? So if the default risk is just being a woman, then I suppose, yes, it's not 100 per cent correct to say 'not breastfeeding increases the risk of breast cancer.' I suppose I was thinking not really of a default risk, but of two women whose risk (in terms of no. of pregnancies, as pregnancy itself has an effect on the risk) was the same, but one bf and one didn't - the one who didn't would find her risk increased.

But I'm not going to split hairs. Formula feeding has risks, but yes, we should be careful who we say it to and when.

Eeek....a risk of prostate cancer for men not me!!!

Bloody typos....